• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:59
CET 16:59
KST 00:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !1Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win1Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
ゼントレーダーについて
Tech Support
Employee Retention in Behavioral Health: Building Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1441 users

[H] ZvZ: Holding off a 10-pool all-in (Diamond)

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
LoKi-
Profile Joined May 2011
United States121 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 20:00:38
December 12 2011 19:41 GMT
#1
Hey guys,
I'm a mid-diamond Zerg, just played this game and I'm not entirely sure what I should've done to hold it off.
What happened:
He went 10 pool, then attacked with 6 zerglings and 8 drones (with 4 more zerglings in production). He built a spine crawler on my creep with one drone and attacked with the rest.
I went 14/14, scouted the all-in with my overlords just as he was leaving his base and built spines and lings as soon as my spawning pool finished. They weren't up in time and he still utterly bear-mauled me.

REPLAY: http://drop.sc/73825

My first instinct is that I need to buy more time to get more lings out so I can actually engage his army without dying. The problem with this is that I need to kill his spine crawler before it's up, or I feel I'll lose. I'm not sure if me trying to plant spine crawlers was a mistake or not.
Help please? :3
Meff
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy287 Posts
December 12 2011 19:56 GMT
#2
The description is actually incorrect: he attacked with 8 drones. 4 drones were left at home for reinforcing.

In this specific case, you were at 15 drones against 6 zerglings and 7 drones (one was building a crawler).
Crawlers take indeed too long to build and they automatically rob you of one drone. It's better to simply pump zerglings, put a queen in production and engage with the drones if really needed (and in this case you could have just bought time by moving around off-creep while your zerglings spawned).
trew
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden93 Posts
December 12 2011 19:57 GMT
#3
At 3:34 I think you had too many spines building. If you're just going to run away with your drones, you shouldn't build them at all. Also your lings were badly controlled when they popped. They should be together with your drones when you engage. There is no rush in killing the spine. His units are way more dangerous. What if you kill the spine, but you have no drones left?
LoKi-
Profile Joined May 2011
United States121 Posts
December 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#4
Sorry Meff - didn't notice that. I'll fix it.

So, to clarify, do you just suggest I dance around with the drones until I have more lings popped, ignoring his spine?
kryx
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany4 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 20:05:57
December 12 2011 20:04 GMT
#5
mid Diamond

Gotta agree with the rest - plus:

* You pull your drones off gas too late
* Your pool is 50 Mins too late - call me smartass, but any second counts on this matter
* If possible I usually wait some extra seconds to build that 15 Overlord, because of these cheeses. In your case it was just a waste of larvae and minerals
* 1 spine seals the deal. Building none makes his pretty nasty if completed with full health, plus you distract him as well

EDIT
Youre waiting for your inital 6 lings and do only engage, when you can pick him off guard.
LoKi-
Profile Joined May 2011
United States121 Posts
December 12 2011 20:19 GMT
#6
Thanks for the help guys. Although kryx - your last point about the spine confuses me. Can you please elaborate?
Greenhit
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States200 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 20:54:14
December 12 2011 20:52 GMT
#7
Personally when I get rushed I try to focus on

A) continuing to harvest as much as I can minimalizing the delay of your zergling speed will make crushing him should he try to transition even easier then it probably already will be, however losing a bunch of drones for that 100 gas is never a good trade that early, so follow this bit with caution.

B) making sure any lings I have out or am waiting to get out don't get killed, queue queen, make sure you spend all available larvae on lings prior, as they are not as easily surrounded. however all personal preference, you could argue that the delay on the queen only strengthens the rush.

C) Only engage with lings supported by drones odds are you
1. wont lose any drones and deal with the threat quickly, losing mining time still hurts.
2.Can immediately counter with the lings you've had building up, and most importantly, be able to engage with fewer ling numbers during the initial defense.

Also make sure to touch upon the few points Kryx made as well, especially about the pool timing.



"And where do you live Simon?" "In the weak and the wounded, Doc."
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
12:00
Playoffs
Scarlett vs ReynorLIVE!
TBD vs Clem
uThermal vs Shameless
WardiTV1530
ComeBackTV 669
TaKeTV 388
IndyStarCraft 213
Rex140
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko424
IndyStarCraft 213
Rex 140
ProTech123
trigger 34
DivinesiaTV 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2061
Jaedong 1945
Bisu 1827
Soma 888
Larva 750
Light 444
actioN 339
BeSt 310
Stork 287
Mini 287
[ Show more ]
Snow 259
hero 211
EffOrt 199
Zeus 153
firebathero 141
Hyun 73
LaStScan 60
Killer 47
JYJ 37
sorry 34
Mind 33
yabsab 26
sas.Sziky 24
Shine 24
Aegong 21
Mong 16
Terrorterran 16
NaDa 6
Dota 2
Gorgc6215
qojqva3353
Dendi463
syndereN389
BananaSlamJamma292
420jenkins282
XcaliburYe141
Counter-Strike
byalli366
markeloff143
Other Games
B2W.Neo1962
FrodaN977
hiko551
Fuzer 279
DeMusliM267
ArmadaUGS134
QueenE68
Trikslyr40
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 5
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 6
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 23
• blackmanpl 15
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV886
• Noizen56
League of Legends
• Jankos3189
• TFBlade1448
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
9h 2m
WardiTV 2025
20h 2m
MaNa vs Gerald
TBD vs MaxPax
ByuN vs TBD
TBD vs ShoWTimE
OSC
23h 2m
YoungYakov vs Mixu
ForJumy vs TBD
Percival vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
The PondCast
1d 18h
WardiTV 2025
1d 21h
Cure vs Creator
TBD vs Solar
WardiTV 2025
2 days
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Ladder Legends
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.