• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:40
CEST 23:40
KST 06:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway13
Community News
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon What happened to Singapore/Brazil servers?
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
[IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info! Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro16 Group B [ASL20] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Canadian Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1492 users

[H] ZvZ: Holding off a 10-pool all-in (Diamond)

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
LoKi-
Profile Joined May 2011
United States121 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 20:00:38
December 12 2011 19:41 GMT
#1
Hey guys,
I'm a mid-diamond Zerg, just played this game and I'm not entirely sure what I should've done to hold it off.
What happened:
He went 10 pool, then attacked with 6 zerglings and 8 drones (with 4 more zerglings in production). He built a spine crawler on my creep with one drone and attacked with the rest.
I went 14/14, scouted the all-in with my overlords just as he was leaving his base and built spines and lings as soon as my spawning pool finished. They weren't up in time and he still utterly bear-mauled me.

REPLAY: http://drop.sc/73825

My first instinct is that I need to buy more time to get more lings out so I can actually engage his army without dying. The problem with this is that I need to kill his spine crawler before it's up, or I feel I'll lose. I'm not sure if me trying to plant spine crawlers was a mistake or not.
Help please? :3
Meff
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy287 Posts
December 12 2011 19:56 GMT
#2
The description is actually incorrect: he attacked with 8 drones. 4 drones were left at home for reinforcing.

In this specific case, you were at 15 drones against 6 zerglings and 7 drones (one was building a crawler).
Crawlers take indeed too long to build and they automatically rob you of one drone. It's better to simply pump zerglings, put a queen in production and engage with the drones if really needed (and in this case you could have just bought time by moving around off-creep while your zerglings spawned).
trew
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden93 Posts
December 12 2011 19:57 GMT
#3
At 3:34 I think you had too many spines building. If you're just going to run away with your drones, you shouldn't build them at all. Also your lings were badly controlled when they popped. They should be together with your drones when you engage. There is no rush in killing the spine. His units are way more dangerous. What if you kill the spine, but you have no drones left?
LoKi-
Profile Joined May 2011
United States121 Posts
December 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#4
Sorry Meff - didn't notice that. I'll fix it.

So, to clarify, do you just suggest I dance around with the drones until I have more lings popped, ignoring his spine?
kryx
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany4 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 20:05:57
December 12 2011 20:04 GMT
#5
mid Diamond

Gotta agree with the rest - plus:

* You pull your drones off gas too late
* Your pool is 50 Mins too late - call me smartass, but any second counts on this matter
* If possible I usually wait some extra seconds to build that 15 Overlord, because of these cheeses. In your case it was just a waste of larvae and minerals
* 1 spine seals the deal. Building none makes his pretty nasty if completed with full health, plus you distract him as well

EDIT
Youre waiting for your inital 6 lings and do only engage, when you can pick him off guard.
LoKi-
Profile Joined May 2011
United States121 Posts
December 12 2011 20:19 GMT
#6
Thanks for the help guys. Although kryx - your last point about the spine confuses me. Can you please elaborate?
Greenhit
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States200 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 20:54:14
December 12 2011 20:52 GMT
#7
Personally when I get rushed I try to focus on

A) continuing to harvest as much as I can minimalizing the delay of your zergling speed will make crushing him should he try to transition even easier then it probably already will be, however losing a bunch of drones for that 100 gas is never a good trade that early, so follow this bit with caution.

B) making sure any lings I have out or am waiting to get out don't get killed, queue queen, make sure you spend all available larvae on lings prior, as they are not as easily surrounded. however all personal preference, you could argue that the delay on the queen only strengthens the rush.

C) Only engage with lings supported by drones odds are you
1. wont lose any drones and deal with the threat quickly, losing mining time still hurts.
2.Can immediately counter with the lings you've had building up, and most importantly, be able to engage with fewer ling numbers during the initial defense.

Also make sure to touch upon the few points Kryx made as well, especially about the pool timing.



"And where do you live Simon?" "In the weak and the wounded, Doc."
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL Team Wars
19:00
Playoff - 4th vs 3rd
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
ZZZero.O83
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason128
Nathanias 37
Lillekanin 2
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13784
ZZZero.O 83
sSak 28
NaDa 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm131
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m1474
Stewie2K474
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu502
Other Games
Grubby3899
FrodaN2428
ToD429
KnowMe178
Sick153
SortOf116
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV38
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 46
• StrangeGG 34
• RyuSc2 21
• Sammyuel 1
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach41
• HerbMon 15
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22701
League of Legends
• Doublelift5279
Other Games
• imaqtpie1190
• Scarra969
• Shiphtur191
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
12h 20m
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Wardi Open
13h 20m
OSC
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 12h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 12h
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Zoun vs Classic
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.