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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 10 2011 07:23 AKomrade wrote: Only one banshee with no cloak, but still REALLY effective. This follow-up is absolutely pointless. Without Cloak, going Lab Starport and building a sole Banshee = wasted resources since the Zerg will easily fend off that Banshee with his Queens. | ||
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
On December 10 2011 06:03 00Visor wrote: I believe Idra introduced the word "abusive" to Starcraft. He uses it as a deprecative word for clever strategies. It often seems that way. And he is infamous for using that word. However, most of the builds he calls abusive change from a patch in the nearby future. | ||
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TiTanIum_
Brazil1335 Posts
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Omsomsoms
Croatia194 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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TheEmulator
28103 Posts
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Onox
United States1072 Posts
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drgrofl
Canada48 Posts
U DON"T. | ||
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Cyx.
Canada806 Posts
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Deezl
United States355 Posts
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lambac0re
United States77 Posts
On December 10 2011 13:29 Deezl wrote: Based on the notes you gave, fast 2-base mutas with overseer would be auto-win? If the initial harassment was at all successful, the muta's will be significantly delayed. By the time 5-7 muta's pop, Terran is already up to thor tech. Based from what ForGG did with his build, it would usually be a 4 thor blue flame scv pull all in. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
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aviator116
United States820 Posts
On December 10 2011 14:42 BronzeKnee wrote: Sure, but remember that since you are allowing me to define it, it can be mean what I want it to mean, and thus as long as it makes sense in the context I wrote it, I cannot be wrong. The definition of abusive for me is play that either misuses units (such as using cannons or bunkers offensively) or when a player uses a build that depends more on their opponent making mistakes than their own skill. Bunker rushing fits the former, 2 Port Banshee fits the latter. If you scout 2 Port Banshee and prepare, you should hold it easily, but if you don't, you die. And thus, these guys go into these big Thor all-ins with Marines if it fails, which is yet another abusive transition because it depends on their opponent making mistakes. hey ive gotten proxy-hatched/mass spine crawler rushed before, doesn't that count as abusive since hes 'misusing' a unit? every player makes mistakes. the real skill is determined in the amount/size of those mistakes. then again, a baneling bust is also pretty abusive, since it relies on terrans making mistakes in their building placement. =P or idk, i don't play zerg a lot. | ||
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nkulu
United States242 Posts
Also many top players, especially zergs love to not overlord scout to kind of cheat economically a bit. Seems many zerg just assume the terran will play a macro game. | ||
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Bananasword01
Australia220 Posts
Keep on trucking zerg brethren. | ||
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
On December 09 2011 15:00 aviator116 wrote: once again. scout. scout for those gases, which isnt something that i saw the zergs do. they saw the CC, and thought it would be standard play. so scout his main a while when the CC is finishing. if you have to, send in two overlords from different directions. it may seem like a waste, but really <30 clicks is a good price to pay for scouting. See the problem is scouting for Zerg costs 100 minerals and 8 supply or in the example you proposed 200 minerals and 16 supply. Regardless of whether your scouting is successful or not, the attempt to scout comes at such a heavy price. And slow overlords can very likely die before seeing anything as you don't get overlord speed until lair, which by then you are likely already dead if the Terran is using this build and using it well with micro. Give Zerg a cost efficient way to scout a walled-in opponent and a lot of Zerg QQ should subside.Heck put overlord speed at hatch tech. All overlord speed at hatch tech gives is a way for Zerg to scout better, | ||
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Bananasword01
Australia220 Posts
On December 10 2011 15:43 NEOtheONE wrote: See the problem is scouting for Zerg costs 100 minerals and 8 supply or in the example you proposed 200 minerals and 16 supply. Regardless of whether your scouting is successful or not, the attempt to scout comes at such a heavy price. And slow overlords can very likely die before seeing anything as you don't get overlord speed until lair, which by then you are likely already dead if the Terran is using this build and using it well with micro. Give Zerg a cost efficient way to scout a walled-in opponent and a lot of Zerg QQ should subside.Heck put overlord speed at hatch tech. All overlord speed at hatch tech gives is a way for Zerg to scout better, A zerg that knows exactly what a terran is doing is a zerg that wins. we might not like it but a lot of what goes into making a zerg slow down on the droning is based on the act of being mysterious about your attacks. A lot of games where zergs win is where they managed to get a read on their opponent and perform the exact execution in the early game, then they just close the game out over the next quarter of an hour. and then they lose when their greed gets caught out. | ||
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Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 10 2011 15:43 NEOtheONE wrote: See the problem is scouting for Zerg costs 100 minerals and 8 supply or in the example you proposed 200 minerals and 16 supply. Regardless of whether your scouting is successful or not, the attempt to scout comes at such a heavy price. More drama, please? Scouting comes at a price for all races; if you're not willing to do that minor sacrifice (sorry, an Overlord sacrifice is only “such a heavy price” in the eyes of a biased Zerg—the problem is more about the possibility to see nothing than about to lose 100 minerals and having to avoid being supply blocked, which is not that hard since you decide to sacrifice that Overlord...) to get a possible look at what your opponent is doing, then don't complain if you get crushed by cheeses. Hell, on most maps you don't even have to sacrifice an Overlord to see gas timings or if your opponent took his natural. On December 10 2011 15:43 NEOtheONE wrote: And slow overlords can very likely die before seeing anything as you don't get overlord speed until lair, which by then you are likely already dead if the Terran is using this build and using it well with micro. Totally untrue. You can counter this build with safe standard play, i. e. extra Queen and Evolution Chamber to block Hellions (because this build heavily relies on doing economic damage by early game)... But of course, if 100 minerals already is a “such a heavy price,” I guess 275 is something like losing an arm for you. Anyway, after you successfully defend his pressure, you get an Overseer once you reach Lair, scout Factories and react accordingly. On December 10 2011 15:43 NEOtheONE wrote: Heck put overlord speed at hatch tech. Might as well give maphack. On December 10 2011 19:58 decaf wrote: If you know what the terran is going to do (transitioning into mech) I think roach hydra would be the best unit composition to deal with this. I'm not Zerg, but going Hydras along with Roaches sounds like a terrible idea; I think Roach/Banes (to deal with repairing SCVs, and Hellions to some extent) would be much better. | ||
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