EPT[G] A Guide to Standard TvP - Page 5
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xOff
United States247 Posts
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
When I face it on ladder I never know whether to try to all-in or try to take a faster third to compensate, or if there is a third option. | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
On December 02 2011 12:12 Dhalphir wrote: I'm curious what your preferred response to a Nexus first is? When I face it on ladder I never know whether to try to all-in or try to take a faster third to compensate, or if there is a third option. My preferred response to a nexus first is to immediately build an extra OC in my base and go for faster then usual 3rd. If you take a 3rd right away at this stage in the game you may find yourself to thinly spread but a 3rd OC in base for the extra scvs and mules should catch u up in economy no problem. You will want to build a couple more bunkers then usual if you scout a 6gate transition which is the most dangerous counter response to this response. You also have to prepare yourself for the ridiculous mineral income your about to have (take gases earlier etc.) its quite a difference, I am somewhat used to it since I open double CC after rax in TvZ most games. Alternatively sometimes I just play from behind, I don't believe there is anyway to punish nexus first unless you were already opening aggressively (aka the 2rax), maybe if your marine micro is sick you could cancel your CC and try 5-6rax pressure. | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
On December 02 2011 12:15 statikg wrote: My preferred response to a nexus first is to immediately build an extra OC in my base and go for faster then usual 3rd. If you take a 3rd right away at this stage in the game you may find yourself to thinly spread but a 3rd OC in base for the extra scvs and mules should catch u up in economy no problem. You will want to build a couple more bunkers then usual if you scout a 6gate transition which is the most dangerous counter response to this response. You also have to prepare yourself for the ridiculous mineral income your about to have (take gases earlier etc.) its quite a difference, I am somewhat used to it since I open double CC after rax in TvZ most games. Alternatively sometimes I just play from behind, I don't believe there is anyway to punish nexus first unless you were already opening aggressively (aka the 2rax), maybe if your marine micro is sick you could cancel your CC and try 5-6rax pressure. interesting followup question - by what method do you choose where to scan in the Protoss main base? Scanning at the nexus doesn't always reveal everything, and what if you miss crucial things? | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
On December 02 2011 12:26 Dhalphir wrote: interesting followup question - by what method do you choose where to scan in the Protoss main base? Scanning at the nexus doesn't always reveal everything, and what if you miss crucial things? I usually scan where I saw the majority of the pylons in my scv scout, typically this gives you enough information, even if they hide a couple of gateways to decide if its going to be pressure or not. The protoss is taking a greater risk by spreading out their buildings then a terran because they are easier to unpower, but your right sometimes they do it. In that case its basically up to your experience to scout the protoss unit composition and try to figure out what is coming, for example if you scv scout at 8minutes and you see 5-6 sentries then you are most likely facing aggression since that gas otherwise would be tied up in tech buildings. In all matchups actually its useful to try to ask yourself, "where is the gas". I'm going to add this bit to my guide. | ||
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FaKeSC2
Germany78 Posts
 low/mid masters here. | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
On December 02 2011 13:27 FaKeSC2 wrote: Do you have any advices on how to stop/scout 1 base 4gate/warpprism allin with 1rax gasless FE into 3rax? It comes at around 7 minutes and you can usually just see that he's one base. Also if you scout for example 3 gates and a robo it could still be an immortal push and then you're fucked if you leave your units in the main. I'm kinda helpless against any kind of warpprism allins. low/mid masters here.I believe that the typical response to 4gate warpprism all-in is that you immediately grab your units and then when they are in your base you attack move with all your scvs and units and force him to pick up and leave, since your on two bases and you delay his ability to warp in units you should pull ahead quickly as long as you have your buildings spread out to see when hes coming. Since he hasnt expanded past the 6minute mark you should definitely have some bunkers at your front so maybe leave 1 unit in each bunker so he is afraid to attack the front. It is definitely a difficult thing to defend esp with the 3rax play. The timing for the warp prism play is much sooner then the immortal push but I still wouldn't leave your units in your main unless you are 100% certain for some reason (you shouldn't have this information unless you pull off a miracle scan) With building placement it is essentially a matter of watching your minimap closely. I would suggest playing without sound to train your minimap awareness. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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FirstGear
Australia185 Posts
On December 02 2011 13:59 statikg wrote: I would suggest playing without sound to train your minimap awareness. Nukes, nydus and to a lesser extent invisi units really suck if you try this. | ||
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superalby
16 Posts
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policymaker
Greece152 Posts
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Nathanias
United States290 Posts
However I've recently been stumped on when to throw down a CC when I do the 2rax pressure opener. I feel like sometimes either my macro is bad and I can afford to get the expo before the add-ons finish and then delay my push by about 30 seconds, but I've been being told I should be throwing down the CC as the units move out which usually leaves me feeling like I have excess money when I put down the cc (500-ish minerals). This is of course with constant scv production, I'm still comfortable with the build just curious as the guide does not state for that opener when to drop your CC most efficiently | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
I'm struggling bigtime in TvP | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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Crowned
United States368 Posts
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
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Zion9
Romania347 Posts
In my opinion this guide is really clear and you clarified every important aspect of the TvP matchup ! Would love to hear some opinion about how to get a good concave for example, and a TvZ guide from you would be awesome aswell ! Thank you very much for your hard work, you helped a lot of Terran players now! | ||
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Macpain
France19 Posts
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
On December 04 2011 03:26 Zion9 wrote: This is something I really really needed ! Had hard times with protoss, basically I always loose vs. Master protoss and can't get promoted In my opinion this guide is really clear and you clarified every important aspect of the TvP matchup ! Would love to hear some opinion about how to get a good concave for example, and a TvZ guide from you would be awesome aswell ! Thank you very much for your hard work, you helped a lot of Terran players now! Just try to spread your units out from the ball formation into a line, perpendicular to the protoss force, then stim and A move and you will naturally get a good concave. As long as the protoss force is not miles away. There is quite a good TvZ guide already actually. It's called something like "docs somewhat definitive guide to TvZ" that I would suggest you read if you need help. Any guide I would write would just be mainly copied from that with maybe some of my own slightly different builds etc. If you'd like to talk to me about TvZ beyond whats in that guide you can PM me. | ||
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Crowned
United States368 Posts
On December 04 2011 03:15 statikg wrote: Well on most maps against a strong opponent it shouldn't right out win you the game. You need to stay on top of your macro, fall back if the FFs are good and be sure to put down the factory quickly to stop the collosus pushback. Check out the replays and see if your army is as strong as it could be. Yea, wasn't expecting it to outright win but it's getting shutdown. It has won me some early games and i've been able to build on it and win easily. Still working on it though. Overall I think you're right about the best way to follow up that opening vs P is the 4 rax. | ||
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