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On December 04 2011 03:33 statikg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 03:26 Zion9 wrote:This is something I really really needed ! Had hard times with protoss, basically I always loose vs. Master protoss and can't get promoted  In my opinion this guide is really clear and you clarified every important aspect of the TvP matchup ! Would love to hear some opinion about how to get a good concave for example, and a TvZ guide from you would be awesome aswell ! Thank you very much for your hard work, you helped a lot of Terran players now! Just try to spread your units out from the ball formation into a line, perpendicular to the protoss force, then stim and A move and you will naturally get a good concave. As long as the protoss force is not miles away. There is quite a good TvZ guide already actually. It's called something like "docs somewhat definitive guide to TvZ" that I would suggest you read if you need help. Any guide I would write would just be mainly copied from that with maybe some of my own slightly different builds etc. If you'd like to talk to me about TvZ beyond whats in that guide you can PM me.
Thank you really much !
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OP is a nice guy, I would be getting mad at people asking me noob questions like how to concave or how to scan if I was making a guide like this.
Also, about the people talking about 1 rax expand being performed commonly by pro players. I think that just because a pro does it every game doesn' t make it standard. It might mean that it is good but good is different than standard. Also, pros might want to do a higher risk/reward build or something like that. My thoughts on this are not perfect, but basically, Goody uses mech every game agianst protoss, does this make it standard? No. Can it be successful at a high level? Yes. That is what we know using this information.
On December 03 2011 01:01 Nathanias wrote:
This guide was very helpful and I really appreciate it as a mid-high master player who is trying to play more Standard TvP.
However I've recently been stumped on when to throw down a CC when I do the 2rax pressure opener. I feel like sometimes either my macro is bad and I can afford to get the expo before the add-ons finish and then delay my push by about 30 seconds, but I've been being told I should be throwing down the CC as the units move out which usually leaves me feeling like I have excess money when I put down the cc (500-ish minerals). This is of course with constant scv production, I'm still comfortable with the build just curious as the guide does not state for that opener when to drop your CC most efficiently
I think you are over complicating the situation. You said that you can afford it earlier if your macro is bad...so basically this means (in the case of if your macro didn't suck) "Should I cut some units for an earlier expansion?" The answer depends on what your goals are. If you want an earlier expansion and you feel safe or like you cannot do damage then sure, but if your goal is to do serious damage to the protoss then I would recommend not to cut units early.
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On December 04 2011 04:14 Carmine wrote:
OP is a nice guy, I would be getting mad at people asking me noob questions like how to concave or how to scan if I was making a guide like this.
I asked about the concave because I tought he has a specific method for it. It dosnt really work for me to get a concave with A move then hold. So I tought I ask maybe I can learn a new method or something Otherwise I agree you, that it was a bit stupid question after such a guide
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Can't believe this thread was so far down. Thank you so much for the guide, TvP has definitely been really rough as of late.
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On December 04 2011 18:21 Zion9 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 04:14 Carmine wrote:
OP is a nice guy, I would be getting mad at people asking me noob questions like how to concave or how to scan if I was making a guide like this.
I asked about the concave because I tought he has a specific method for it. It dosnt really work for me to get a concave with A move then hold. So I tought I ask maybe I can learn a new method or something Otherwise I agree you, that it was a bit stupid question after such a guide
You might want to watch some pro streams, particularly some of the Koreans like Polt. Basically you need to pull units back from the fight, then amove them into it. If you do this properly, you'll form a concave and improve it with each group of units you pull back. This is great against charge in particular.
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Thanks statik. This guide format is so much better than the kcdc pictures gallery type. Openings > early threats> midgame > threats > opportunities! Then finishing off with general timings, scouting tips and thoughts. Nice!!!
e: statik misspell -___-
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I actually prefer to do a 1 rax tech lab FE Bomber style, with a quick stim and 3 rax and push out when stim finishes. I don't really want to go gasless expand every game. What I know from when I played Protoss is that a gas openings really keeps you guessing, it can be a FE, cloaked banshees, 1/1/1, hellions, marine/tank all-in etc. If you see no gas you're pretty much free to do whatever you want until ~9-10 mins.
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is there anyway you could post a replay of doing the 1rax tech lab FE? i'm curious to know the timings of that build of how it should be executed. also i would like to know if you have to keep the scv's on gas after you get concussive and the first 2 marauders. Thanks otherwise!!! great guide and i will be trying this stuff out tonight when i ladder against toss. the 1 rax gasless FE is my primary build for this match up :D
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Hi TL, can someone advise a bit on how to defend 3 gate + void ray all in when you do 1 rax FE into 4 rax. The map was Abyssal Caverns and I scouted fast second gas from toss but it could be dt/3gate+ robo/3gate + void ray/anything. by the time i did my second scout they already got 1-2 void ray out near my base. I just got a bunker at natural. that didn't help at all. i have a decent amount of marines but the void ray attacked the supply near my ramp and i couldn't attack the void ray as they have quite a few of stalkers in low ground if i come close they move their void ray back. What should be my correct response? thx
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Build a new depot?
As long as you add the rax quickly you should be ok, as long as you can push him back he can only harass a few outlying buildings, meanwhile you are getting a good economy and should aim to get some vikings asap if he is going to continue his pressure.
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What are peoples views on 1 rax FE into 3 rax then 3 gas (1 with techlab for marauders and stim). Followed up by a quick double eng bay to get mega upgrades rolling.
It delays factory by about 90 seconds but really gives a good 2-2 timing attack
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Nice writeup, very helpful.
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This is unbelievably helpful. Thanks for writing this, cheers.
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thanks a lot for this guide.
it was so helpfull for me. you cant believe how much better my tvp became trough this guide.
I always played 3rax into starport like most pros do. but 4 rax fits me way better.
I like it that master players who dont knock on the gm door write guides. they are so helpful for low diamond players like me.
edit: i'd love it if you find the time to write a tvz guide
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On December 12 2011 09:26 daft21 wrote:
thanks a lot for this guide.
it was so helpfull for me. you cant believe how much better my tvp became trough this guide.
I always played 3rax into starport like most pros do. but 4 rax fits me way better.
I like it that master players who dont knock on the gm door write guides. they are so helpful for low diamond players like me.
edit: i'd love it if you find the time to write a tvz guide
A TvZ guide would be great And some more replays too :D
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Interesting from a Protoss perspective.
You should consider adding something in there about the 2 base 6 gate timings and the 2 base 6gate robo immortal busts.
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Gives me good perspective when I will PvT, thanks
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Where them replays at? :D
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EPT
