so i tend to play as you suggest expand when i realise I can't break them off of 4 gates with charge.

but how many probes do you recommend going up to if you intend to pressure off of one base? all the way to 30?

also if you can't break them and expand when do you add on robo or a forge for upgrades? do you suggest throwing both down when you realise they've expanded and aren't going to all-in you.

also I struggle versus 1 base colossus, is it ideal to despite expanding cut probes and just spam units versus this?

ThePianoDentist

United Kingdom698 Posts

March 06 2012 14:11 GMT

#86

On November 11 2011 05:17 CecilSunkure wrote:
I've updated the OP! Here is the changelog:

Revision [ 2 ]

Changelog (oldest to newest descending):
> Rewrote overview
> Made large changes to Mid Game Section
> Clarified Late Game Section
> Post your replays of this style and I'll include them in OP!

Show nested quote +

I think someone with Blink + Robo can easily defend on their ramp if they sit there army near the top of their ramp. Then the surface area of the Zealots + Archon is next to nothing until you start Blinking back, and by then the Charge/Archon army would have taken a lot of damage. Add in a Sentry for the defender and it gets really ugly for the offender.

Show nested quote +

Very good points! Although if you do manage to contain a player onto one base and expand, you need to have more tech than simply just Chargelots and Archons. A good number of Blink Stalkers + Chargelots and Archons is extremely strong, as once the engagement occurs there's nothing to stop your Stalkers from picking the Colossus off.

does this mean versus a 1 base colossus push I should try and get blink and blink stalkers as well as zealot archon for when he attacks....and then when i blink do i save my blinks for when he tries to micro back damaged colossi or do i just blink straight on top of them immediately?

Belha

Italy2850 Posts

March 06 2012 14:41 GMT

#87

I found that in actual meta (high masters) this build can be really effective. A lot of non-agresive players are going for phoenix or blink builds with delayed robo, so the dts can deal enough damage to be ahead.

The build, still a gamble tho(as most in pvp lol).

totalpigeon

United Kingdom162 Posts

March 06 2012 17:20 GMT

#88

Not sure how a 4 month old guide as awesome as this one still has a spelling mistake in the title and leading line, but I just noticed it spells chargelot wrong, may be worth changing it to make sure people can always find it via the search function.

CecilSunkure

United States2829 Posts

March 06 2012 20:30 GMT

#89

On March 07 2012 02:20 totalpigeon wrote:
Not sure how a 4 month old guide as awesome as this one still has a spelling mistake in the title and leading line, but I just noticed it spells chargelot wrong, may be worth changing it to make sure people can always find it via the search function.

I plan to re-write this guide soon, so it's fine.

RRDjhonn

34 Posts

March 06 2012 20:48 GMT

#90

I do this in large maps yet and works well, its weird to win with archon bust against high toss but when they scout your stuff normally take turtle mode , they can´t engage you in wide before colossi count is 4+ so you can macro hard. If you use this for eco lead , your enemys are fucking prisms and maybe stargate play , against sg i feel its ok try to run into the main with first archon , super annoying to defend mineral lines with this strat.

kalteras

United States72 Posts

March 06 2012 21:02 GMT

#91

Is this a viable 1 base all in strat? I had a diamond toss do it to me and I crushed it with ease off two bases with stalker immortal zealot and good chokes, maybe he didn't execute it well.

CecilSunkure

United States2829 Posts

March 06 2012 21:50 GMT

#92

On March 07 2012 06:02 kalteras wrote:
Is this a viable 1 base all in strat? I had a diamond toss do it to me and I crushed it with ease off two bases with stalker immortal zealot and good chokes, maybe he didn't execute it well.

No not really unless they take their natural expansion.

Gladiator6

Sweden7024 Posts

March 30 2012 15:40 GMT

#93

This is really frustrating to play against, especially that even if you go robotics you can't walk down your ramp because he's there and he can get his base up so much earlier.

I usually open 3 stalker into robotic, if lets say I knew my opponent was doing this build. What should the best response be from me? Turtle in my base with building placement and get zealots, colossus and a few sentries and stalkers(from the beginning)?

Complete

United States1864 Posts

March 31 2012 17:09 GMT

#94

I don't know if you still use this build, but do you have any specific advice/ideas playing against blink/robo?

CecilSunkure

United States2829 Posts

March 31 2012 21:28 GMT

#95

Here's a small replay pack from yesterday on ladder! Note: drop.sc attached it to an older pack because the names were the same

http://drop.sc/packs/787

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

April 11 2012 18:29 GMT

#96

I have a question about playing vs a style like this.

If you are opening with a 3 gate and then adding a robo ~ say 40ish food maybe a bit sooner, is the best way to play vs this to get an obs out (should be out right after or before DT play is in effect) and then to turtle on 1 base adding either immortals or colsi before taking the expansion?

Can people add some thoughts on this?

CecilSunkure

United States2829 Posts

April 11 2012 19:21 GMT

#97

On April 12 2012 03:29 vaderseven wrote:
I have a question about playing vs a style like this.

If you are opening with a 3 gate and then adding a robo ~ say 40ish food maybe a bit sooner, is the best way to play vs this to get an obs out (should be out right after or before DT play is in effect) and then to turtle on 1 base adding either immortals or colsi before taking the expansion?

Can people add some thoughts on this?

You'll likely win if you play passively with Colossus and manage to not take any damage on two base. Then take a passive third, and smash the other dude with a very large Colossus count. But this is outdated. See: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318673

FoxShine

United States156 Posts

June 15 2012 02:53 GMT

#98

I think this build needs to be looked at again. The way iv been pulling it off on the ladder is opening 14/18 gas, rushing out 3 sentrys(4th if FF fail), and waiting for a 4 gate or some kind of agression. Dt's are great if they go blink or 4 gate all in because they have to fall back and get detection.

I like to think of DTs as being defensive or oppertunistic in this build. If the enemy does get sentry stalker immortal, or even for collosus; hitting before 2nd collosus with a couple archons and a gang of chargelots is powerful. I even stick a DT in my main army for dps. Im not sure how this does against phoenix as zealots are light units. I watched MVP tails do this build on the ladder pvp and alot of the time people answer by throwing up their own Dark shrine. Anyone have any advice of how to transition out of this build or ways it can be defended?

CecilSunkure

United States2829 Posts

June 15 2012 07:19 GMT

#99

Here's a video I made on this subject going over a couple of my recent games! + Show Spoiler [Youtube Video] +

deathenator

United States6 Posts

June 15 2012 13:05 GMT

#100

in pretty much the entire guide u seem to be assuming your opponent is playing off 1 base. I always open 2 gate expand or 2 gate robo expand with the fake 4 gate thing, and I laugh everytime some1 tries this on me. Your build keeps them in their base and you have army advantage mid game, but if they were planning on going for a late game pvp your build wont do much to stop them. 2 gate robo expand, partial wall the natural with another 2-3 gates, chargelot archon wont break that. I'll have he collossus advantage and I can either expand again or go for a timing depending on when you take your 2nd and third. I'm mid masters and i've never lost to dt->chargelot archon. Maybe high masters can execute it better, but im sure they can also defend better as well.