EPTMight try it in 1v1, it's definitely a lot of fun to play with.
[G] StimmedProbe's TvX Gas First, 2 Fact. Cheese - Page 2
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horsepire
147 Posts
Might try it in 1v1, it's definitely a lot of fun to play with. | ||
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Vod.kaholic
United States1052 Posts
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
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Nakama
Germany584 Posts
and im a master player who used this on a friends acc in diamond so either im dump or thsi build just doeasnt work 4 me | ||
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Ingwaz
Sweden70 Posts
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StimmedProbe
Hong Kong98 Posts
On November 02 2011 08:45 Corsica wrote: Such a gamble lol , because once you plott down 9 gas and scout 7 pool i think you are screwed but for ladder its ok I haven't been 6/7 pooled once in like the last 200 TvZ games I've played. It's basically an auto win for you if you know how to scv drill, and your opponents know that, so they don't go for it. On November 02 2011 10:01 Nakama wrote: This build didnt work 4 me one time out of 25 i used it agasint every race but terra. zerg has roaches out and toss can jsut block their ramp with 2 stalker seems pretty pointless and im a master player who used this on a friends acc in diamond so either im dump or thsi build just doeasnt work 4 me Replays? The timing windows should be roughly 20-30 seconds. Perhaps your opponents have faced this build before, can't give much advice without replays. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10347 Posts
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DjRetro
Chile309 Posts
Thank you again ! | ||
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joeppp
Netherlands10 Posts
Build order 06 - 4xSCV, do -not- queue the fifth 10 - Supply Depot (use the SCV that popped last, so delay until ~1:10) 10 - Refinery (immediately after supply) 10 - 1xSCV 11 - Barracks 11 - 4xSCV 11 - Send scout to check for location of opponent 15 - Factory 15 - Reactor on Barracks -> remove one SCV from gas 15 - Orbital Command 15 - Supply Depot 15 - Swap Barracks and Factory 15 - 2xHellion (~4:05) 19 - Factory (~4:25) -> remove remaining SCVs from gas 19 - 2xHellion 23 - Supply Depot XX - Nonstop contruction of hellions and supply depots Notes - Double workers on close mineral patches to gain a few seconds in the beginning. - Use the SCV that constructs the first Supply Depot for non-stop contruction afterwards of Barracks, Factory, Supply Depot, Factory, Supply Depot, Supply Depot, etc. This minimizes traveltime and makes the build order a lot easier to execute extremely tight. - Don't lose the scout, it's very helpfull in the first attack with four hellions. | ||
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Ingwaz
Sweden70 Posts
On November 03 2011 21:16 joeppp wrote: I think I found an improved version of this build. In the original build the first three hellions pop out simultaniously at ~5:05, I managed to get the first two out at ~4:35, not stopping production, thus you get four at ~5:05. You wil have nine hellions at ~6:05, exactly at the same time as the original build. All this can be done by getting the reactored factory up as soon as possible, thus delaying the second one. Having your first two hellions out 30s earlier can be quite important, and having four instead of three for your first push is huge as well. Very interesting! Think you could post a replay of you doing this build? It would be much appreciated. EDIT: Tried it on ladder and it totally rocks! That one extra hellion is really good. Maybe you should create your own thread about it to harvest some e-penis. | ||
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joeppp
Netherlands10 Posts
I doubt my platinum level will give me any credibility, so I'd rather hop on here;) | ||
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danteafk
307 Posts
11 gas 13 rax factory as soon as rax finishes reactor on rax 1 helion swap factory to reactor 2 helions im out with 3 helions at about 5:10 like you and have more minerals. i wall off with 2 depots + rax to be unscouted ans build the reactor on the rax in the base, put a bunker instead. this build works against protoss pretty well, if the protoss isnt walling off with 2 stalkers or has sentrys, then it sux. im rallying then 2 more helions and then transition into 1-1-1 easily into win. only mass zealots or colossi is stopping the 1-1-1 transition afterwards. | ||
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galivet
288 Posts
Looks easy to scout though since you don't wall off (at least in the vid) and you don't build a marine. | ||
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:41 galivet wrote: This build would also be strong against protoss DT expand. I would wager it's strong against every non-cheese protoss opening really b/c it's a TvP fast all-in based on mineral-only units; I think that just like the 3rax+supply drop all-in the only way to survive the early game is to scout the all-in and build five sentries ASAP. Looks easy to scout though since you don't wall off (at least in the vid) and you don't build a marine. And this is why Toss is getting Arc Shield in HotS. But nice build! Way to use what Blizz gave you | ||
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paintfive
785 Posts
It also transitions horribly because you've got 2 factories and little else for production. I'd equate it to a really late ling rush. | ||
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mCon_maDe
Netherlands58 Posts
On the build though: (from a PvT POV) it really seems very easy to scout since you don't make a marine and delay your orbital so much which either indicates an allin or a really bad terran. Should work in the lower leagues but I don't think this will get you into masters ^^ | ||
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StimmedProbe
Hong Kong98 Posts
On November 03 2011 21:16 joeppp wrote: I think I found an improved version of this build. In the original build the first three hellions pop out simultaniously at ~5:05, I managed to get the first two out at ~4:35, not stopping production, thus you get four at ~5:05. You wil have nine hellions at ~6:05, exactly at the same time as the original build. All this can be done by getting the reactored factory up as soon as possible, thus delaying the second one. Having your first two hellions out 30s earlier can be quite important, and having four instead of three for your first push is huge as well. Wow I just tried that build out, it is really good. Probably better than mine. How'd you come up with it? Everything lines up very nicely. Nice job! Edit: Just beat a rank #34 GM Zerg with this build. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/4730/Westley ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-240318.jpg) | ||
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joeppp
Netherlands10 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:25 StimmedProbe wrote: Wow I just tried that build out, it is really good. Probably better than mine. How'd you come up with it? Everything lines up very nicely. Nice job! Edit: Just beat a rank #34 GM Zerg with this build. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/4730/Westley Great to see it actually works on high level! I really enjoy fiddling around with build orders, as sometimes even the best ones can be improved. I alse have a hugely improved version of the iEchoic build, where you only use one factory instead of two. Unfortunately my platinum level playing skills hamper me in applying all this theorycrafting in practice The thing that got me started with your build was the huge gap between your Supply Depot and Barracks. In order to get a reactored factory up as soon as possible you should (if possible of course!) have non-stop serial construction of Supply Depot -> Barracks -> Factory, with the reactor started ~25s after the barracks. The other constraint is gas: at the moment you start your factory you should have at least 100, and 25s later at least 50. Given that you mine ~110 gas/minute from one geyser, you can deduce that you should start your Refinery at most 5s later than the Supply Depot. From here on it's just tuning, trying to squeeze in as much SCVs as possible, and getting the OC up as soon as possible. This build might actually be scarier if you get a techlab on your barracks after having four (or six) hellions, swap the barracks and factory, and switch to marine+tank. Especially against walloffs this might solve some problems. | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
I've been using a similar concept against the Zerg except it relies on 3-4 naked factories into expo, tech labs, 2 armouries, BF, mixed thor/hellion ball with or without repairing SCVs. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
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