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Hyper-Aggressive ZvT: Tang's Three Barrel Bust - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 06:53:02
October 30 2011 06:51 GMT
#21
i practiced this once and then played a masters terran and destroyed him. the first attack i pulled back. the second attack i got most of the tanks and forced him to pick up his nat CC, and the third attack i was maxed with ultras and just demolished his nat and third, and then into his main with reinforcements.

thanks for the build

not to mention it was one of the most fun zvt's ive played in so long.
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
October 30 2011 07:54 GMT
#22
That early bust is pretty scary, I have no idea how I'd hold off that if I didn't scout it properly and went for FE.

I like your mentality of having just enough drones and making units to be aggressive, it's a refreshing change from the typical crazy saturation play.
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
October 31 2011 03:46 GMT
#23
On October 30 2011 16:54 Mobius_1 wrote:
That early bust is pretty scary, I have no idea how I'd hold off that if I didn't scout it properly and went for FE.

There usually aren't tanks with seige mode for the first wave, which makes it very capable of ending the game unless they bunker up. Also IF they play very defensive you can pull back and hit again with the ling/bane/roach with more units after he has expanded. Expansions on maps like metal and xelnaga are pretty wide open and makes attacking at multiple angles very strong.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
daggertech
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden24 Posts
October 31 2011 12:13 GMT
#24
I don't get some of the hate.. Do you people have absolutley ZERO things to do irl/whilst at the computer?

I believe its a solid strategy and build, I'm way too passive to pull it off tho
sVnteen
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2238 Posts
October 31 2011 13:31 GMT
#25
the first part of this guide is really good up until the first timing push but then it seems like you are just looking on one of you replays doing this build and writing down the numbers
-noone will count if he has 48 banelings 18 roaches and 44 lings in lategame so tose numbers make no sense
-as you said the timings will differ depending on what you lose BUT also it largely depends on what your opponent is doing since you cant play this vs a lot of strats terran is doing (especially in lower leagues i would imagine) also there is no backup plan for this build (im sure you have one when youre doing this but no plat player who reads this will know what to do if terran does something out of the ordinary)

build in general sounds quite risky i have to say since you can very quickly lose to a terran ~9.30 push since you will be totally out of defenses then (playing how this order suggests it)


i think this guide is good until the 1st push which isnt anything particularly new and the build is quite nice for the whole game IF the terran plays how you think he does (which is oftentimes not correct)
MY LIFE STARTS NOW ♥
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 13:35:46
October 31 2011 13:35 GMT
#26
On October 31 2011 22:31 sVnteen wrote:
the first part of this guide is really good up until the first timing push but then it seems like you are just looking on one of you replays doing this build and writing down the numbers
-noone will count if he has 48 banelings 18 roaches and 44 lings in lategame so tose numbers make no sense
-as you said the timings will differ depending on what you lose BUT also it largely depends on what your opponent is doing since you cant play this vs a lot of strats terran is doing (especially in lower leagues i would imagine) also there is no backup plan for this build (im sure you have one when youre doing this but no plat player who reads this will know what to do if terran does something out of the ordinary)

build in general sounds quite risky i have to say since you can very quickly lose to a terran ~9.30 push since you will be totally out of defenses then (playing how this order suggests it)


i think this guide is good until the 1st push which isnt anything particularly new and the build is quite nice for the whole game IF the terran plays how you think he does (which is oftentimes not correct)

I think it's actually the second push that is the most potent, with the timed upgrades. Doing this build you're actually hoping that your opponent goes for an early marine/tank push. You'll already have some roaches and you can spam out 2hatch worth of lings to completely overrun it and counter attack for the victory with ling/bane/roach.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Loxley
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Netherlands2480 Posts
October 31 2011 13:44 GMT
#27
Loving it, and idd especially the 2nd push.
월요 날 재미있
quillian
Profile Joined April 2010
United States318 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 13:59:13
October 31 2011 13:55 GMT
#28
Hi tang! Cool build! I do the early game ling roach but haven't had such precise follow up's. This will help me refine my mid game for sure.

A few questions:

1. Why do you gas first and then delay metabolic boost till after the roach warren? If you aren't getting ling speed right away, is there any reason to delay your pool/queens, etc? or, why not get speed at 24, when you have the gas and are waiting on larvae for drones anyway?

2. I usually pull drones off gas after roaches are started to get lings out quicker. Is this a bad idea with this build, which transitions to fast lair/upgrades?

3. how do you adapt for an air-centric response?

thanks for the great guide!
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
October 31 2011 14:22 GMT
#29
1) You need the gas for meta boost and roaches, but you don't utilize lingspeed until you push out so it actually slows down your warren and roaches come a bit later if you get speed early. If you're having trouble dealing with pressure, though, you can always get lingspeed first.
2) I do this sometimes too, but if I'm planning on going lair and upgrades I just keep them in.
3) You get your evo pretty early, so you should just throw down a spore at each base (maybe 2 if they're really committing to air) and add on queens. Usually, though, if they go for air you'll punish them hard with your first push, sometimes killing all scvs and just needing to mass anti-air to win. If they're sticking to 1base, you may want a baneling nest because a common transition from 2port banshee is 1base mass marine/banshee.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
October 31 2011 14:34 GMT
#30
I just want to say I'm a huge fan of your guides Tang, thank you for coming up with these strategies and explaining them to us.
Computer says mafia
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 15:50:48
October 31 2011 14:47 GMT
#31
Looks like a nice guide. I'll probably experiment with it in team games. On the other hand I suggest u look into the late pool thing. It might be that some minerals gained from later pool are not worth delaying larva injections (and as a result later push or less future drone mining time)/ Also it looks very risky and scares people off.

Edit
9 Overlord
15Hatch (2:10) -Scouting drone sent out-
16Gas (2:30)
15Pool (2:50)
18Overlord (3:35)
18 2xQueen, 2xSet of Ling (4:00)
At 4:15, you will have full saturation at your main (16 drones mining 2 per patch, 3 in gas) Begin rallying both hatcheries to your expansion. Never touch your main mineral line unless you have to, as transferring will lose mining time.
20-28 Drones (Reach 28 at 4:30)

at 18 u make 2 queens + 2 sets of ling. 18+2*2+2= 24. So u will have not 20 supply but 24 and 8 drones come from 24 to 32 supply? Did u just forget queens cost supply?
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
October 31 2011 16:27 GMT
#32
On October 31 2011 23:47 Cheerio wrote:
Looks like a nice guide. I'll probably experiment with it in team games. On the other hand I suggest u look into the late pool thing. It might be that some minerals gained from later pool are not worth delaying larva injections (and as a result later push or less future drone mining time)/ Also it looks very risky and scares people off.

Edit
Show nested quote +
9 Overlord
15Hatch (2:10) -Scouting drone sent out-
16Gas (2:30)
15Pool (2:50)
18Overlord (3:35)
18 2xQueen, 2xSet of Ling (4:00)
At 4:15, you will have full saturation at your main (16 drones mining 2 per patch, 3 in gas) Begin rallying both hatcheries to your expansion. Never touch your main mineral line unless you have to, as transferring will lose mining time.
20-28 Drones (Reach 28 at 4:30)

at 18 u make 2 queens + 2 sets of ling. 18+2*2+2= 24. So u will have not 20 supply but 24 and 8 drones come from 24 to 32 supply? Did u just forget queens cost supply?


Yeah I edited the OP, thanks Cheerio. I've also uploaded additional replays of the style against some more aggressive terrans.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Rykyu
Profile Joined March 2011
France19 Posts
October 31 2011 17:11 GMT
#33
This looks pretty awesome. I've been trying it around against an AI and everything seems very smooth to me. Just one thing I found to be pretty annoying : the overlord on 18 seems to delay queens and lings by a few seconds and that doesn't sound very optimal, a 17 overlord seems to fix that what do you think?
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
October 31 2011 21:34 GMT
#34
On November 01 2011 02:11 Rykyu wrote:
This looks pretty awesome. I've been trying it around against an AI and everything seems very smooth to me. Just one thing I found to be pretty annoying : the overlord on 18 seems to delay queens and lings by a few seconds and that doesn't sound very optimal, a 17 overlord seems to fix that what do you think?


17 overlord works too
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Host-
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand459 Posts
November 01 2011 11:16 GMT
#35
Don't understand why your getting so much hate Tang, been following you for a decent amount of time, all yours builds are solid and have helped me, a high diamond player, immensely. So for that I thank you.

cydial
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States750 Posts
November 01 2011 15:09 GMT
#36
Add some replays ffs.
rustypipe
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada206 Posts
November 01 2011 15:11 GMT
#37
Tried this the other night and it worked real well. Its acutally really refreshing take on the matchup as you feel more incontrol of the match and dictate the flow of the match a little more instead of sitting back waiting to die. More zerg really need to be more aggressive like this and fingure out more aggressive builds as this constant expand, macro, and survive crap is garbage + annoying to ALWAYS play.


Thanks agian ! Keep up the good work.

The beatings will continue until moral improves!
Rykyu
Profile Joined March 2011
France19 Posts
November 05 2011 09:56 GMT
#38
I've been trying this build out with a lot of success now, just one question, how do you react to banshee + hellion builds [as in commiting banshee hellion not just 1 - 2], I realize the first push punishes them a bit but as soon as the banshee comes out it just ends. After that the evo chamber is not always soon enough (especially on close air positions) and hellion drops + banshees just ruin my day. I often just end up going for the second bust with a smaller army to deal enough damage but by then I have no more econ and my army is dead :/. Do you have any advice against this type of play? (In perspective to this build but also to zerg in general).
Chackle
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom204 Posts
November 05 2011 13:35 GMT
#39
I'd find it really useful if there was a follow-up thread to this that explained how to react if things go a bit wrong. (2 rax or banshees scouted).
This info is really nice to try out though. I'll continue using it for the rest of today and see if i find any bumps in it

Thank you
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
November 07 2011 21:42 GMT
#40
On November 05 2011 18:56 Rykyu wrote:
I've been trying this build out with a lot of success now, just one question, how do you react to banshee + hellion builds [as in commiting banshee hellion not just 1 - 2], I realize the first push punishes them a bit but as soon as the banshee comes out it just ends. After that the evo chamber is not always soon enough (especially on close air positions) and hellion drops + banshees just ruin my day. I often just end up going for the second bust with a smaller army to deal enough damage but by then I have no more econ and my army is dead :/. Do you have any advice against this type of play? (In perspective to this build but also to zerg in general).

Banshees should come out too late to help too much. Your ling/roach push should kill a player who goes for banshees. By the time they have more than 1-2 hellions, you will have your 8 roaches out.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
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