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Hyper-Aggressive ZvT: Tang's Three Barrel Bust - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Magus.423
Profile Joined July 2011
France33 Posts
November 08 2011 09:20 GMT
#41
I tried to use this style in my ZvT on ladder for a week. I'm a low/mid master on the EU server.

And ... it just don't work ><

Most of terrans just spot the all-in with early gaz and when i come with roach + speedling they got bunker with maraudeur and defend with hélion, maradeur and scv.
I just die when the terran counter :/

I don't see how it can works. I just won a few times with this build against "blind" Terran (doing a build without any scout).
No whine, just play.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
November 08 2011 09:27 GMT
#42
durrrr plays SC2 now?

Looks interesting though
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
dslyecix
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada37 Posts
November 08 2011 13:06 GMT
#43
On November 08 2011 18:20 Magus.423 wrote:
I tried to use this style in my ZvT on ladder for a week. I'm a low/mid master on the EU server.

And ... it just don't work ><

Most of terrans just spot the all-in with early gaz and when i come with roach + speedling they got bunker with maraudeur and defend with hélion, maradeur and scv.
I just die when the terran counter :/

I don't see how it can works. I just won a few times with this build against "blind" Terran (doing a build without any scout).

If you see crazy bunkers, don't push into it and die? Fall back to your base and continue the build, your next attack will be that much stronger and you'll have a small defense force for any counter push.
Magus.423
Profile Joined July 2011
France33 Posts
November 08 2011 13:12 GMT
#44
I know. I don't push and i back. And then i'm behind in economy. If a prepare the second push i'm still behind and i still can't push.
And then the terran is as 200 pop before me, he push and i'm dead.

Maybe i'm missing something or maybe i just can't play this style, but it don't works with me :/
No whine, just play.
Mahtasooma
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany475 Posts
November 08 2011 14:14 GMT
#45
Siege Tanks on the high ground would wreak havoc to all your half-early and midgame pushes.
http://twitch.tv/mahtasooma
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
November 08 2011 14:52 GMT
#46
On November 08 2011 23:14 Morghaine wrote:
Siege Tanks on the high ground would wreak havoc to all your half-early and midgame pushes.

Players don't typically have seige tanks by 7:15 for the first push, and for the second one you'd be surprised how well ling/bane/roach performs against seige tank/marine armies!
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
November 08 2011 14:55 GMT
#47
On November 08 2011 23:14 Morghaine wrote:
Siege Tanks on the high ground would wreak havoc to all your half-early and midgame pushes.


Some replays (Sterling for example) show the contrary. Terrans usually don't have siege mode for the first push, and the composition of the second push negates the enormous advantage that are tanks on the high ground. It's surprising how resilient roaches are when there are only a few tanks (4 or less)
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
November 08 2011 17:38 GMT
#48
On November 08 2011 22:12 Magus.423 wrote:
I know. I don't push and i back. And then i'm behind in economy. If a prepare the second push i'm still behind and i still can't push.
And then the terran is as 200 pop before me, he push and i'm dead.

Maybe i'm missing something or maybe i just can't play this style, but it don't works with me :/

Probably need to refine the timings a bit, make sure you're getting your push to his base at the right time and transitioning into drones and saturating your bases properly.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Qxz
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada189 Posts
November 09 2011 03:35 GMT
#49
Hi Tang, I use your build a lot, however I am a bit lost when transitioning into the third barrel. Although I pretty much hit the timings you layed out, I have a lot of floating money which I don't know how to spend. Just getting my third and upgrades isn't enough to spend everything. Should I just keep pumping units? I'd love to see a replay where you get to the third barrel, all the replays you've provided didn't get to that point.
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 04:26:07
November 09 2011 04:18 GMT
#50
Hi there!

So, after half a dozen games against the AI to perfect the timings, and half a dozen play on the ladder, I've reached a certain nuumber of conclusions :
- the second push timing is absolutely beautiful. The upgrades, the perfect use of resources, etc...
- the opening is horribly greedy (15 hatch/16 gas/15 pool?)
- there is no way your 3rd part is serious. The only thing that are worth it are taking the 3rd, getting another evo chamber and teching to hive. It's much more preferable to do another push before ultralisks that just take forever to make (I don't mean they're bad, I mean that I must be floating lots of minerals during the wait for hive+ultralisk cavern, I could max out a lot sooner and push, with infestors/roach/ling for example)
- it works pretty well against protoss (if they expanded before the first push) and of course fails in ZvZ

All in all, thanks Tang! A relly nice build that is probably my ZvT and ZvP go-to build (I'm random, so it's hard to master a lot of them)

Edit : Is there even a replay that display the ultralisk push?
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
November 09 2011 17:21 GMT
#51
On November 09 2011 13:18 fezvez wrote:
Hi there!

So, after half a dozen games against the AI to perfect the timings, and half a dozen play on the ladder, I've reached a certain nuumber of conclusions :
- the second push timing is absolutely beautiful. The upgrades, the perfect use of resources, etc...
- the opening is horribly greedy (15 hatch/16 gas/15 pool?)
- there is no way your 3rd part is serious. The only thing that are worth it are taking the 3rd, getting another evo chamber and teching to hive. It's much more preferable to do another push before ultralisks that just take forever to make (I don't mean they're bad, I mean that I must be floating lots of minerals during the wait for hive+ultralisk cavern, I could max out a lot sooner and push, with infestors/roach/ling for example)
- it works pretty well against protoss (if they expanded before the first push) and of course fails in ZvZ

All in all, thanks Tang! A relly nice build that is probably my ZvT and ZvP go-to build (I'm random, so it's hard to master a lot of them)

Edit : Is there even a replay that display the ultralisk push?


It's just a general guideline for how to approach the lategame, I think moving into heavy upgrades with ling/bane/ultra/roach is a reasonable maxed out army to continue the aggression. Most of my games end with the second push I don't often make it to the 18+Minute mark
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
November 09 2011 17:22 GMT
#52
On November 09 2011 12:35 Qxz wrote:
Hi Tang, I use your build a lot, however I am a bit lost when transitioning into the third barrel. Although I pretty much hit the timings you layed out, I have a lot of floating money which I don't know how to spend. Just getting my third and upgrades isn't enough to spend everything. Should I just keep pumping units? I'd love to see a replay where you get to the third barrel, all the replays you've provided didn't get to that point.


If you're floating, it's likely the timing of your queens / hatcheries / injects. Try to build macro hatches, additional queens to spit, and really mass those lings/roaches/ultras/banes to keep money low.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
MagicMule19
Profile Joined September 2011
82 Posts
November 09 2011 23:14 GMT
#53
I used to try out some of your stuff when I was a young noobling and some of it worked, but it gets boring very quickly.
I wouldn`t recommend any new, or lower league Zerg to read this and adapt to this play. Your games always ends up being throwing stuff at your enemy in a desperate fashion.
In China Too Young is just a name
barrykp
Profile Joined August 2010
Ireland174 Posts
November 10 2011 00:57 GMT
#54
I tried this out a bit with some good results, but drop play was a real problem for me. Other than that it seemed quite good.
Lecture me some more on how to play please; I need help.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
November 10 2011 01:14 GMT
#55
On November 10 2011 08:14 GeuRiMo wrote:
I used to try out some of your stuff when I was a young noobling and some of it worked, but it gets boring very quickly.
I wouldn`t recommend any new, or lower league Zerg to read this and adapt to this play. Your games always ends up being throwing stuff at your enemy in a desperate fashion.

It's not at all that way if you take the time to structure and perfect your build orders! The point of multiple aggressive timing attacks is the execution greatly increases your mechanical skills: Larva injects, unit production, rally points, unit control, multitasking, etc.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Satallgeese
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States239 Posts
November 10 2011 10:55 GMT
#56
I love this build more than I loved my playstation 2 as a child. The early timings are so perfect that when everything is executed properly that there really is no reason whatsoever not to use this build to punish greedy Terrans, and even FFE Toss. The roaches usually hit right when warpgate finishes researching, leaving one or two sentries for forcefields before you get free reign. Even if they manage to defend, behind this I usually switch to a more macro oriented play, so by the time the eventual counterattack rolls around (if you fail), you've already got your third rolling along and the time to have scouted everything the Toss is doing, and thus prepare.

After watching your lecture at Waterloo, I'm wondering if we can expect any more of these fantastic class/lecture/posts on TL? For a plat zerg looking to be more aggressive, you are like Buddha. Just not as fat.

Any chance we can see some muta timings that you've cooked up? My earliest muta build hits around 10-11 minutes with anywhere between 6 and 12 mutas, which just doesn't seem to accomplish the purpose of fast and hard aggression.
A good player practices until he gets it right. A great player practices until he can't get it wrong.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
November 10 2011 14:21 GMT
#57
On November 10 2011 19:55 Satallgeese wrote:
I love this build more than I loved my playstation 2 as a child. The early timings are so perfect that when everything is executed properly that there really is no reason whatsoever not to use this build to punish greedy Terrans, and even FFE Toss. The roaches usually hit right when warpgate finishes researching, leaving one or two sentries for forcefields before you get free reign. Even if they manage to defend, behind this I usually switch to a more macro oriented play, so by the time the eventual counterattack rolls around (if you fail), you've already got your third rolling along and the time to have scouted everything the Toss is doing, and thus prepare.

After watching your lecture at Waterloo, I'm wondering if we can expect any more of these fantastic class/lecture/posts on TL? For a plat zerg looking to be more aggressive, you are like Buddha. Just not as fat.

Any chance we can see some muta timings that you've cooked up? My earliest muta build hits around 10-11 minutes with anywhere between 6 and 12 mutas, which just doesn't seem to accomplish the purpose of fast and hard aggression.


I'll be focusing doing another aggressive zerg lecture next Tuesday on a more calculated, less all-in style of aggressive zerg.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
ExodusHydrA
Profile Joined September 2011
58 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 17:58:09
November 10 2011 17:57 GMT
#58
On October 30 2011 06:29 Markwerf wrote:
please stop naming stupid tactics after yourself, it's just irritating.


I think you should try it before flaming it.

Tried it, seems to work really well, unless they know what is coming. (in my 3rd game against a friend, he bunkered up pretty heavily, and I couldn't kill him.)
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
November 10 2011 18:04 GMT
#59
On November 08 2011 18:27 sluggaslamoo wrote:
durrrr plays SC2 now?

Looks interesting though


durrr's aggression works because he has mastered the fundamentals of the game and has a deep understanding of the standard and non-standard lines his opponents might take in every scenario. blind cheese in sc2 doesn't exactly require much thought.
dicksonlam708
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada31 Posts
November 11 2011 03:13 GMT
#60
stop misleading people thinking you are a gm when you are clearly not and all your builds are gimmicky
heyheyhey :D terran palyers!
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