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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:02 iMMortaL.797 wrote: Tang bothers me. He posts a thread about baneling/roach busts EVERY WEEK. PEOPLE HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE. -________- uhmmmmmmm the 7RR was made a long time ago. uhm...7rr is a one base build. this one has a Hatch first o.O | ||
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KarneEspada
United States72 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:10 iMMortaL.797 wrote: there you go. ill be like tang now ITS THE: IMMORTAL STARCRAFT EPIC ZERG 7 ROACH RUSH ONE BASE SPEEDLING ROACH ALL IN Wait wait wait, don't you mean: IMMORTAL STARCRAFT EPIC ZERG 7 ROACH RUSH ONE BASE SPEEDLING ROACH "HYPER-AGGRESSION" | ||
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Senros
54 Posts
Screw the haters, this guide is awesome! For a while now I have wanted to try hyper aggressive styles of play with zerg because I thought them to be extremely powerful, now I know for a FACT that they are. This guide will definitely help me out when I am able to start playing again very soon. So thank you for taking the time out of your day to contribute to TL! | ||
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greymason
United States5 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:49 Senros wrote: Tang- Screw the haters, this guide is awesome! For a while now I have wanted to try hyper aggressive styles of play with zerg because I thought them to be extremely powerful, now I know for a FACT that they are. This guide will definitely help me out when I am able to start playing again very soon. So thank you for taking the time out of your day to contribute to TL! Agree 100%. Thank you Tang for this. It has helped me personally. I love the thought process of this approach. It is a great blend of aggresion with opportunity to pull back and still play macro - but you are at least setup for aggresion if needed. I've also used it against Protoss with much success and wonder why you specify it only for ZvT instead of ZvT/P? | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On December 06 2011 11:39 greymason wrote: Agree 100%. Thank you Tang for this. It has helped me personally. I love the thought process of this approach. It is a great blend of aggresion with opportunity to pull back and still play macro - but you are at least setup for aggresion if needed. I've also used it against Protoss with much success and wonder why you specify it only for ZvT instead of ZvT/P? I've been having a lot of trouble doing straight pushes against protoss...you can't really hatch first against toss, so the roach/ling push would be slightly delayed. The first push gets there at 7:30 or so, and they're pretty close to warp completion. By the time the second push comes around, they'll have so many sentries that it's almost impossible to break them. I've been using a lot more of a macro style against toss, with roach/ling and eventually muta. | ||
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forevernerdy
England31 Posts
On December 06 2011 05:51 TangSC wrote: I would simply pull back my first push back and play defensively (hopefully kill a few repairing SCVs but even if not) then do the second phase of the bust at 11:30 when he has a natural and is more spread out. Roach/ling/baneling with creep can hold off any midgame push or drop harass. Then when he pushes you can just crush it and counterattack or if he doesn't push you can either bust his natural or take a 3rd. i dont think its that easy, if you dont do ANY damage with that first push and they're planning a big 1/1/1 all-in, then you wont have any banelings by the time the push comes around. a big marine/banshee/hellion all-in with or without scvs at the 8-10minute mark (after the first push but before the 2nd one) would be devastating considering how late the mutas and additional queens are. dont get me wrong, this style is uber strong against players who dont open 1/1/1, but i think if they wall in with the big buildings you're in trouble. HOWEVER if you got queens/spines/spores at your expansion, you might hold it...but you have to know hes going to allin you to make that kind of static defenses worth it. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:46 forevernerdy wrote: i dont think its that easy, if you dont do ANY damage with that first push and they're planning a big 1/1/1 all-in, then you wont have any banelings by the time the push comes around. a big marine/banshee/hellion all-in with or without scvs at the 8-10minute mark (after the first push but before the 2nd one) would be devastating considering how late the mutas and additional queens are. dont get me wrong, this style is uber strong against players who dont open 1/1/1, but i think if they wall in with the big buildings you're in trouble. HOWEVER if you got queens/spines/spores at your expansion, you might hold it...but you have to know hes going to allin you to make that kind of static defenses worth it. Well if you pull back without losing much and build a 3rd queen, then you have a roach/ling/queen composition on creep (pretty strong defensively). You can just drone up and keep active ling scouting. If you see he isn't expanding (or if you see him push out) you just make 2 larva injects full of lings. Then, you have queens/roaches and a massive amount of lings which is pretty strong against any midgame terran composition. Once you hold that big push, he'll have to play defensively to expand which means you can either do a huge roach/ling/bane bust or use your remaining lings/roached to take a 3rd at a gold and move. And, as you mention, you could grab an evo and a spore and spines to help you but naturally I prefer units/queens to static defenses. | ||
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Aceace
Turkey1305 Posts
-Shattered Temple close by air positions. Zerg went 15 hatch 15 pool. -Zerg created 4 zerglings for scout and killed them all. -As you mentioned i attacked with 5 marines and 1 hellion. (At 6min mark i reached his nat.expand and forced him to built another spine crowler and 22 zerglings.) *This fake attack did great indirect dmg. But that happened because of my enemy didn't understand what the hell i'm doing and he responded extremely bad. -Because of this bad reaction he forced to attack my main and return.(7.30mark and we both have 27 workers.) (Btw my viking killed 2 overlords.) -At 8 min mark he didn't see my expand and he easily understand I'm going to push 1 base extremely agressive attack. -At 8.40 I reached his expand. I had 3 siegetank (with Siege mode) 13 marines 1 banshee. (In your build there is no siege mode! You sacrifice Siege Mode for 1 more banshee.) He just build extra zerglings and overwhelm me............ There is no return point because of no stim and sieged tanks. -He knew i cannot produce enough marines or st to protect my expand and build more zerglings and prevented me from taking my expo. Afterwards my morale went down and even after a good engagement against him I had macro mistakes and lose Then I started thinkin. Why this build does nearly no dmg to zerg player? Problem is banshee. Banshee seems very very high dps. But not against zerglings man  2 volley kill 1 zergling but if your banshee choose a low hp zergling it sucks. Zerglings has only 35 hp man. And Because of waiting 1 banshee your attack delay almost 1 min. http://drop.sc/71327 TLDR: Sorry man. Your Terran build sucks. PS: Sorry for offtopic. Really sorry. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On December 10 2011 07:00 Aceace wrote: Yesterday i played some ZvT's with your other tactic. But i wanna mention 1 of them. (I'm really really sorry for offtopic but other thread closed by TeamLiquid) -Shattered Temple close by air positions. Zerg went 15 hatch 15 pool. -Zerg created 4 zerglings for scout and killed them all. -As you mentioned i attacked with 5 marines and 1 hellion. (At 6min mark i reached his nat.expand and forced him to built another spine crowler and 22 zerglings.) *This fake attack did great indirect dmg. But that happened because of my enemy didn't understand what the hell i'm doing and he responded extremely bad. -Because of this bad reaction he forced to attack my main and return.(7.30mark and we both have 27 workers.) (Btw my viking killed 2 overlords.) -At 8 min mark he didn't see my expand and he easily understand I'm going to push 1 base extremely agressive attack. -At 8.40 I reached his expand. I had 3 siegetank (with Siege mode) 13 marines 1 banshee. (In your build there is no siege mode! You sacrifice Siege Mode for 1 more banshee.) He just build extra zerglings and overwhelm me............ There is no return point because of no stim and sieged tanks. -He knew i cannot produce enough marines or st to protect my expand and build more zerglings and prevented me from taking my expo. Afterwards my morale went down and even after a good engagement against him I had macro mistakes and lose Then I started thinkin. Why this build does nearly no dmg to zerg player? Problem is banshee. Banshee seems very very high dps. But not against zerglings man 2 volley kill 1 zergling but if your banshee choose a low hp zergling it sucks. Zerglings has only 35 hp man. And Because of waiting 1 banshee your attack delay almost 1 min. http://drop.sc/71327 TLDR: Sorry man. Your Terran build sucks. PS: Sorry for offtopic. Really sorry. It might be more helpful to post further questions of the terran build in my TvZ thread (This is ZvT). But I think your biggest mistake is that you do get siege mode with my build, AS you're pushing out. It's actually crucial that those 3 tanks have siege mode when you make it to the opponent's base, otherwise zerglings will be too cost-efficient. I've had success at the master level using that 1/1/1 style, and several people of various skill levels have responded that it has helped them, so although it's easy to try a build once and say it doesn't work when you lose, it's much more likely that your execution needs to be improved upon. | ||
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iMMortaL.797
United States94 Posts
On December 06 2011 07:24 KarneEspada wrote: Wait wait wait, don't you mean: IMMORTAL STARCRAFT EPIC ZERG 7 ROACH RUSH ONE BASE SPEEDLING ROACH "HYPER-AGGRESSION" Oh yeah sorry thanks <3 | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On December 06 2011 07:24 KarneEspada wrote: Wait wait wait, don't you mean: IMMORTAL STARCRAFT EPIC ZERG 7 ROACH RUSH ONE BASE SPEEDLING ROACH "HYPER-AGGRESSION" Har har  | ||
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iMMortaL.797
United States94 Posts
hand goes to chest herpaderpderp however, the only thing that wins no matter what is the: IMMORTAL STARCRAFT EPIC ZERG 7 ROACH RUSH ONE BASE SPEEDLING ROACH "HYPER-AGGRESSION" User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On December 13 2011 06:43 iMMortaL.797 wrote: btw theres a reason not a ton of zergs go aggression UNLESS IT IS SCOUTED THAT YOU CAN DO SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE. hand goes to chest herpaderpderp however, the only thing that wins no matter what is the: IMMORTAL STARCRAFT EPIC ZERG 7 ROACH RUSH ONE BASE SPEEDLING ROACH "HYPER-AGGRESSION" Aggressive zerg is not common because its full power hasn't been unleashed yet. I think hyper-aggressive zerg is the future, once more people figure it out. | ||
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skinnyQueen
11 Posts
The first attack almost never kills them, the second cripples them a lot and when the ultras come its a gg. I really love it when i just 1a with roaches banes lings on bunkers and tanks and they can't do anything about it. | ||
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ChaZzza
United Kingdom162 Posts
I've read a lot of your posts and seen some of your (SC2!) lectures. Your play style is inspiring. An aggressive, non-defensive zerg style is fun to play with and, executed correctly, seems to be not only successful but also useful in terms of learning macro mechanics, timings and transitions. I wouldn't say that it is the be-all-and-end-all of zerg styles but i find it very positive in a quagmire of macro-hard-til-you-hit-hive techniques. It flips the game into your control: deciding when to push, when you want to engage and how the game will play out rather than just saying, "If he builds X, I will have to build Y and we'll see how it goes." In short, I like your style, I like what it does to solidly-entrenched macro-zerg's minds and I think you have a lot to offer to the scene. Having said this, I think the inclusion of 'building all this stuff really early on and losing nothing whatsoever I can still make this later stuff' is a poor way of showcasing the style. The reason is that this style pounds your opponent and loses stuff but then reacts to what they are doing with the next aggressive transition. Therefore you HAVE to to include different transitions depending on what the opponent is doing, rather than saying 6 ultras plus roach bling wins, or 'if this doesnt work out then you need coaching which I will provide for 50 bucks an hour'. Peace | ||
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Depravity
67 Posts
The Meta game for terran is Marine Tank vs Ling bane Muta - You wanna know why ? Because Marine tank = Blows up your banes + roaches and ultras really don't do that much damage, and it's big and slow Check out any pro gamer game and you'll see Never does Zerg go ultra - And if they do - they practically lose I feel that Doing early attacks like this - Can be stopped really easily with bunkers. Bunkers could stop the first attack - giving you a disadvantage in economy - The 2nd attack will be even weaker with Seige tanks behind bunkers - And your 3rd attack, which is 10 minutes later is almost impossible if the terran retailites even a little bit This build assumes that you can be agressive but assumes that you won't be attacked at all . For example : if your 1st attack fails , you can't follow up the rest of the build order- because the terran might choose to retailiate Without mutas - You can't keep the terran At bay , and this build is why it's kind of favoring terrans - | ||
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BoggieMan
520 Posts
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Dragule
France17 Posts
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Ospak
Canada7 Posts
To the people who say this doesn't train you to macro better, you are wrong. Timing pushes are very reliant on macro, if you can't macro and do everything you need to, when the time comes to attack you wont be ready. It also teaches you to macro while you are attacking, which is probably the most important macro skill to have. The best thing about this style is that you take control of the match, you make the opponent react to you, and you can finally show those scum (Terran) that larvaa arn't just there to look pretty and make drones. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On December 10 2011 07:00 Aceace wrote: TLDR: Sorry man. Your Terran build sucks. PS: Sorry for offtopic. Really sorry. Hey Aceace, I think you misread the built because 3 tanks WITH siege mode is necessary - you're pushing without siege it seems. | ||
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