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ElvisTek
Venezuela169 Posts
I was thinking about the neosteel frame upgrade. Is it worthy? I mean, now regarding that salvaging the bunker returns 25 less minerals.. it is not good to research this upgrade so you can fit more units inside a bunker? in this way you use 2 bunkers instead of 3 to save the same amount of units and if you salvage it you will be losing only 50 minerals instead of 75? Besides bunkers looks nicer :D | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113479 | ||
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ElvisTek
Venezuela169 Posts
On October 19 2011 23:54 crocodile wrote: Please read the strategy forum guidelines before posting a thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113479 I'm sorry but i don't see the fault in my thread here. If you can explain i'll be thankful | ||
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naggerNZ
New Zealand708 Posts
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ElvisTek
Venezuela169 Posts
On October 19 2011 23:58 naggerNZ wrote: Should probably have put a [D] tag, for a discussion thread, in the title. Oh i see... thanks.. understood... is any way to change it? | ||
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
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naggerNZ
New Zealand708 Posts
On topic, though, I think that the Neosteel Frame upgrade is one of those upgrades which is useful, but far less important than Infantry Weapons and Armor upgrades, and in TvZ, less important than Hi-Sec Auto-tracking. The difference in salvage return is really unimportant late game (as it's a fraction of what your income should be), and early game any available engineering bay time should be spent pumping Infantry upgrades. However, if you're 3-3, there's really no reason not to get Hi-Sec and Neosteel. It can be the difference between losing and saving a Planetary Fortress against a big baneling bust, and that can easily be the difference between winning and losing. | ||
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BeeNu
615 Posts
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MentalGNT
Denmark1264 Posts
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Hexxed
United States202 Posts
On topic, the engineering research time is fatal against protoss who are pushing x2 upgrades with cb. Even if you do get it, and they are not pushing upgrades... An early six gate or immortal push will still crack your bunkers due to force field. against zerg you are looking at a zerg with equal or higher upgraded units. You will not survive mutant ling. | ||
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Darkwinja
8 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On October 20 2011 00:24 BansheeDK wrote: I think that when you can afford the upgrade and is not using engibays for attack/armor upgrades, bunkers have become useless. Bunkers are mostly strong in the early game. I agree. In lategame bunkers aren't worth it as you want a mobile army instead and in early game the upgrade is too expensive. It's probably the only upgrade i wouldn't mind if blizzard removed it. Even Medivac energy is a lot more useful. However, building armor and hi-sec are definitely useful as they help a ton against muta harass, marine drops, etc. and can buy you just enough time to save something. | ||
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TheAwesomeAll
Netherlands1609 Posts
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
See Dimaga vs MVP game 1 on Tal'Darim Altar during the Korea vs The World event for example. | ||
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ElvisTek
Venezuela169 Posts
On October 20 2011 01:01 HaXXspetten wrote: It's a cool upgrade, but the only time when I see any purpose for it is in a super late game situation when you want to wall off your half of the map with planetaries and bunkers. See Dimaga vs MVP game 1 on Tal'Darim Altar during the Korea vs The World event for example. Link please!!! | ||
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MentalGNT
Denmark1264 Posts
http://www.gomtv.net/2011championship/vod/63894 | ||
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megaBICEPS
Canada79 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Mystogun
United States392 Posts
This upgrade, while is useful for turtling up and slow pushing, takes time away from upgrades, and tbh all of the upgrades available at the engineering bay are much better than this. +2 building armor for unkillable pfs and longer range on pfs and turrets, not to mention to attack and armor upgrades make this seem like not the best upgrade. perhaps it needs a tweaking for HotS, or just be removed in general. Terran already has so much stuff that they never ever need to research this (caduceus reactor for medivac energy anyone?) | ||
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ElvisTek
Venezuela169 Posts
On October 20 2011 04:02 [NoiSe] wrote: I feel like this is one of those upgrades that was really cool in the campaign that they kind of just threw into multiplayer because why not. This upgrade, while is useful for turtling up and slow pushing, takes time away from upgrades, and tbh all of the upgrades available at the engineering bay are much better than this. +2 building armor for unkillable pfs and longer range on pfs and turrets, not to mention to attack and armor upgrades make this seem like not the best upgrade. perhaps it needs a tweaking for HotS, or just be removed in general. Terran already has so much stuff that they never ever need to research this (caduceus reactor for medivac energy anyone?) Lol Caduceus reactor, i think i have never researched this upgrade.... i think anyone did.. anyways, perhaps this neosteel frame requires a lower price so it can be more "atractive" for players to research it... anyways, if this is done and players start to use it, i can't wait to see bnet forums asking for nerf as they usually do | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
a- more hp can protect a bigger area can be repaired better and this upgrade will only be useful in the lategame anyways since (or at leas it think so) it costs gas and gas is always more valuable especially in the early midgame when you build bunkers which you will salvage later | ||
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tWR
Canada138 Posts
In an interesting side note, I wonder if it'd be possible to do a strong early push against zerg, with plus 1 and neosteel bunker/building armor. Meh, just a thought | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
Seriously though I've never seen any situation where this upgrade would be remotely useful. Maybe against a 6 gate attack with 40 sentries, in particular on a map such as Shakuras Plateau, but I highly doubt it would be a practical response. Bunkers with the upgrade do look pretty cool, however. | ||
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Slivered Skin
Canada347 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188810 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125912 Hey, cool, I knew I had seen this thread before. One point that was brought up before (that I found interesting) were that the upgrade concentrates more DPS into one area, since all the marines can shoot at once. Useful if you're defending a very tight choke or if you're one of those people who enjoys using marines in bunkers to defend against mutas. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On October 20 2011 04:12 sVnteen wrote: its useless since 3 bunkers have a- more hp can protect a bigger area can be repaired better and this upgrade will only be useful in the lategame anyways since (or at leas it think so) it costs gas and gas is always more valuable especially in the early midgame when you build bunkers which you will salvage later Agreed, the more HP and more surface area to repair unupgraded bunkers, plus the gas cost on the upgrade make it fairly unattractive as a defensive option. The only real use to this upgrade should be in any situation where you don't have the space for more bunkers, but need the increased damage more marines in range would offer. Some bizarre bunker contain against zerg might benefit from this, but otherwise it sounds like a fairly major investment for a relatively minor gain. | ||
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CluEleSs_UK
United Kingdom583 Posts
On October 19 2011 23:50 ElvisTek wrote: Hello guys! I was thinking about the neosteel frame upgrade. Is it worthy? I mean, now regarding that salvaging the bunker returns 25 less minerals.. it is not good to research this upgrade so you can fit more units inside a bunker? in this way you use 2 bunkers instead of 3 to save the same amount of units and if you salvage it you will be losing only 50 minerals instead of 75? Besides bunkers looks nicer :D But really, bunkers are used to create artificial HP. Less bunkers means less artificial HP, thus no point. Also -> simple questions, simple answers thread. | ||
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DMII
Germany92 Posts
Get it if you have to rely on static defense until later in the game, otherwise spend the money on something more useful. | ||
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Fuhrmaaj
167 Posts
After the upgrade, the bunker is equally resilient but it can hold another marauder. This is useful where adding +1 range to a marauder is useful, but I think this situation is rare. The upgrade costs 100 gas and bunkers don't cost any gas. The only reason I choose not to get the upgrade is because I can't afford to spend gas on upgrades that don't increase the effectiveness of my engagements. This upgrade might save minerals in the long run (maybe), but I think macro OCs are a more viable option in that regard. It's a similar argument as the supply drop vs MULE debate. The bottom line is that you can't afford 100 gas at any point of the game for an upgrade that only saves a few minerals (maybe). | ||
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jackcatttt
United States7 Posts
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jackcatttt
United States7 Posts
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
I don't think you should get this upgrade until very late game when you have abundant resources, it's just not very useful in most situations. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
But really, bunkers are used to create artificial HP. Less bunkers means less artificial HP, thus no point. I disagree, bunkers allow the units inside to fire at once as a single target, creating a newbie (or medium league) player-friendly device to focus fire. As for the neosteel frame: Three marauders can fit in as well, not just those marines everyone is talking about. I'm quite sure there is some funky play out there yet unexplored by anyone that involves neosteel frame. Why not ask Day[9] to put it in a funday monday: You must research Neosteel frame and use at least three bunkers in an offensive way (or something). I think it's a funny thing to try. Most people assume defensive upgrades are not that great in a game where you should be fighting in the enemy base, and if you aren't, you already lost. | ||
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