its useless since 3 bunkers have
a- more hp
can protect a bigger area
can be repaired better
and this upgrade will only be useful in the lategame anyways since (or at leas it think so) it costs gas and gas is always more valuable especially in the early midgame when you build bunkers which you will salvage later

tWR

Canada138 Posts

October 19 2011 19:16 GMT

#22

I agree with what's been said so far, it takes time out of your E.Bay from researching something long game. If you choose to get this upgrade, it feels like it forces you to really add bunkers to your game long term (i.e. you have to do pushes with bunker fortifications, and they have to be slow tank pushes)

In an interesting side note, I wonder if it'd be possible to do a strong early push against zerg, with plus 1 and neosteel bunker/building armor. Meh, just a thought

Geovu

Estonia1344 Posts

October 19 2011 19:30 GMT

#23

Neosteel Frame works in great with my 1 base Planetary Fortress rush guys. 90% winrate with it in my silver league division, got me to number 1.

Seriously though I've never seen any situation where this upgrade would be remotely useful. Maybe against a 6 gate attack with 40 sentries, in particular on a map such as Shakuras Plateau, but I highly doubt it would be a practical response.

Bunkers with the upgrade do look pretty cool, however.

Slivered Skin

Canada347 Posts

October 19 2011 19:34 GMT

#24

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267041
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188810
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125912

Hey, cool, I knew I had seen this thread before. One point that was brought up before (that I found interesting) were that the upgrade concentrates more DPS into one area, since all the marines can shoot at once. Useful if you're defending a very tight choke or if you're one of those people who enjoys using marines in bunkers to defend against mutas.

Staboteur

Canada1873 Posts

October 19 2011 22:44 GMT

#25

On October 20 2011 04:12 sVnteen wrote:
its useless since 3 bunkers have
a- more hp
can protect a bigger area
can be repaired better
and this upgrade will only be useful in the lategame anyways since (or at leas it think so) it costs gas and gas is always more valuable especially in the early midgame when you build bunkers which you will salvage later

Agreed, the more HP and more surface area to repair unupgraded bunkers, plus the gas cost on the upgrade make it fairly unattractive as a defensive option. The only real use to this upgrade should be in any situation where you don't have the space for more bunkers, but need the increased damage more marines in range would offer. Some bizarre bunker contain against zerg might benefit from this, but otherwise it sounds like a fairly major investment for a relatively minor gain.

CluEleSs_UK

United Kingdom583 Posts

October 20 2011 01:11 GMT

#26

On October 19 2011 23:50 ElvisTek wrote:
Hello guys!

I was thinking about the neosteel frame upgrade. Is it worthy?

I mean, now regarding that salvaging the bunker returns 25 less minerals.. it is not good to research this upgrade so you can fit more units inside a bunker? in this way you use 2 bunkers instead of 3 to save the same amount of units and if you salvage it you will be losing only 50 minerals instead of 75?

Besides bunkers looks nicer :D

But really, bunkers are used to create artificial HP. Less bunkers means less artificial HP, thus no point.

Also -> simple questions, simple answers thread.

DMII

Germany92 Posts

October 20 2011 01:26 GMT

#27

I think upgrading your static defense has its use if you go for a sky terran build, which means that you have to have static defense to defend against runbys (because an air army can't stand in the way of something on the ground)

Get it if you have to rely on static defense until later in the game, otherwise spend the money on something more useful.

Fuhrmaaj

167 Posts

October 23 2011 20:21 GMT

#28

The thing about this upgrade in particular is that it costs 100 gas. I understand that if you were going to build 3 bunkers, you only need to build 2 to have the same capacity but I don't think that's the point of bunkers. Bunkers only tank damage and protect the units inside. They are good for space control and useful because they can be repaired. You get 400hp and 1 armor for 100 minerals.

After the upgrade, the bunker is equally resilient but it can hold another marauder. This is useful where adding +1 range to a marauder is useful, but I think this situation is rare.

The upgrade costs 100 gas and bunkers don't cost any gas. The only reason I choose not to get the upgrade is because I can't afford to spend gas on upgrades that don't increase the effectiveness of my engagements. This upgrade might save minerals in the long run (maybe), but I think macro OCs are a more viable option in that regard. It's a similar argument as the supply drop vs MULE debate.

The bottom line is that you can't afford 100 gas at any point of the game for an upgrade that only saves a few minerals (maybe).

jackcatttt

United States7 Posts

October 24 2011 02:24 GMT

#29

I have used a neosteel opening in high diamond and have won a few games with it. On certain maps the ability to instantly transfer 10 Scvs to a planetary helps immensely and secure you a macro lead. As for the bunkers they work very well in pvt with a quick third planetary strat. Since the protoss ff to isolate bunkers and keep them from getting repair they are exposed to much higher dps while destroying a very cheap structure. With stim dps its very tough to break and when your pf third kicks in instantly and safely its very nice. I can post replay if anyone in interested. Its still a pretty rough build.

jackcatttt

United States7 Posts

October 24 2011 02:33 GMT

#30

I forgot to add some might not know but the neosteel upgrade allows 10 scvs to be loaded into a cc. Unload transfer is very sexy

Genome852

United States979 Posts

October 24 2011 09:21 GMT

#31

I get all eng. bay upgrades late game when 3/3 infantry is done, but prioritize building armor and +1 range over neosteel frame.

I don't think you should get this upgrade until very late game when you have abundant resources, it's just not very useful in most situations.

Squigly

United Kingdom629 Posts

October 24 2011 09:51 GMT

#32

Can you EMP from inside a bunker? I assume ghosts can go inside bunkers saying that..

Callynn

Netherlands917 Posts

October 24 2011 14:23 GMT

#33

But really, bunkers are used to create artificial HP. Less bunkers means less artificial HP, thus no point.

I disagree, bunkers allow the units inside to fire at once as a single target, creating a newbie (or medium league) player-friendly device to focus fire.

As for the neosteel frame: Three marauders can fit in as well, not just those marines everyone is talking about. I'm quite sure there is some funky play out there yet unexplored by anyone that involves neosteel frame. Why not ask Day[9] to put it in a funday monday: You must research Neosteel frame and use at least three bunkers in an offensive way (or something).

I think it's a funny thing to try. Most people assume defensive upgrades are not that great in a game where you should be fighting in the enemy base, and if you aren't, you already lost.