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United States8477 Posts
On January 28 2012 19:54 tpmraven wrote:
Do armor upgrades count for your sheilds? or does it only count for once you lose your shields?
Wrong place to ask this. Use simple questions simple answers or Protoss help thread next time. Answer is No, then Yes.
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On January 28 2012 14:37 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 03:58 BronzeKnee wrote:On January 27 2012 14:01 NrGmonk wrote:On January 27 2012 10:55 BronzeKnee wrote:
Hey Monk, do you have any replays of you holding the 1-1-2 with your recommended response (Stargate plus Forge)? In my experience, the Observer scouts it too late to react in time to getting the defense you recommend. I must be doing something wrong. Nope, don't have one. You can post a replay and I'll look at it Here is the replay: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(P)BronzeKnee_vs_(T)BetaX/17597Thanks man, I played this guys several times and he did the same build order over and over. It pretty much went this way the entire time. I could have gotten an earlier Robo and did one game, but it only allowed me to have 1 more Phoenix out than the game linked above (opened Robo-Gate-Gate and it gave me 30 additional seconds). Also that game I should have picked off the PDD immediately with my Sentries, but I misclicked. My overall play was sloppy, and when looking at I could probably squeeze out a few more units and such, but I lost by such a huge margin I doubt it would matter much. I think I'm being build order countered and need to change my build, rather than refine what I've got (certainly could be wrong here, maybe Mass Stalkers would be better?). He hits me with a big push of Marines/SCVs/Hellions/Banshees without Cloak and a Raven that hits ~9:30-10:00. He attempts a Hellion drop first too. Obviously I could blind counter it, but I'm trying to figure out how to counter it based upon what I see. Also I never tried pulling Probes, because he had so many Hellions. I did find some games of Attero vs Pride in a TL Open where he holds a similar build, but he pulls Probes and Pride doesn't have Hellions. Those games were ridiculously close too. Finally, I did try abandoning the expand in another game, but he just did a Medivac elevator into my base when that happened. I was unable to kill the Medivac because he just kept repairing it when I tried it again. I was intrigued by your idea of getting Cannons, and that might be the solution, but I'm not sure they would be out in time. Also how many Gates do you hold it with? In your game, you didn't get cannons, so I would obviously suggest cannons ^^. I've actually never seen anyone defend this off of 1 gate fe without cannons. You're right that one big mistake you made was getting too late a robo. Ideally, you want your 2nd observer popping out at the 7:30 mark, so you can send your first obs to your opponent's base while you defend against possible cloaked banshees with your 2nd obs. Thus, your first obs will get to your opponent's base at the very latest 8:00. This allows you enough time to throw up a stargate and forge and cannons to defend that push. Remember that you're not relying solely on phoenix to defend the push. They're mainly to deter banshee harrass and eat up pdd energy. Your cannons will be doing the brunt of the work.
I see, thanks.
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On January 27 2012 14:01 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 10:55 BronzeKnee wrote:
Hey Monk, do you have any replays of you holding the 1-1-2 with your recommended response (Stargate plus Forge)? In my experience, the Observer scouts it too late to react in time to getting the defense you recommend. I must be doing something wrong. Nope, don't have one. You can post a replay and I'll look at it Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:32 bankai wrote:
In PvP been facing proxy gates more all of a sudden so have a question.
1) What is the best way to scout for these? I 12 Gate scout from a 1 Gate Tech build opening, and was wondering should I:
a) Send my probe to scout his base immediately
b) Send my probe around the outskirts and nearby areas of my base for proxies. I feel like this isnt a full-proof method of scouting a proxy gate is happening because u may simply miss where they planted their gates. Whereas if you go to their base, and immediately see no buildings, then its more 'conclusive' that cheese is on the way (either proxy gates or cannon rush) and I should cancel my Cybercore immediately.
c) Do (b) first then (a) after. My concern with doing this is that I will get to their base too late to know what is going on and react (similar reasoning to (b)).
2) What ladder maps is it safe to scout on pylon/core and what maps pose potential cheese builds like cannon and proxy gate rushes?
Advice from those experienced?? 1. Always scout the common proxy locations if you 12 scout. If you go straight to his bases, you need to 9 scout or you won't get there in time to react. There are common proxy locations for every map and if you learn them, you will do fine. If you doesn't proxy at the common locations, it will usually be very far from your base and you'll be able to fend it off with a core and good micro. 2. It's safe to scout on core only on maps with 4 possible spawn positions. Not metal/shattered/shakrus, because they have 3 possible spawn positions. Not xelnaga because it's 2 spawn positions. Yes to antiga/emtombed. Can't remember any other 4 player ladder maps off the top of my head.
Hi Monk, thanks for your help.
I tried applying what you mention in a PvP on Antiga. I scouted on core (doing Alej's 1Gate Tech build) and lost to a weird AdelScott kinda build. Basically the guy did a 13 Gate 15 Gate (no gas) and chrono'ed lots of zealots.
At this point I had my first zealot out, and 1st stalker halfway, he had 3zealots streaming into my base, another 2 shortly after. He just sends 2 zealots chasing my stalker, while another 3 go and kill my probe line.
This was really hard to defend by microing a stalker and probes at the same time.
I feel that if I simply scouted this build earlier, then I could have easily reacted with simcity/cannon.
Sooo....my question is, how do you stop Adelscott build on big maps? Esp if ur unlucky and scout him last. In your OP you mention to use simcity and chrono stalkers to kite his zealots back, but I dont even know zealots are on the way, nor do I have a stalker out by hte time his zealots hit my doorstep 
Ohh sorry, I would attach a replay but I dont have it on this comp.....so I realise any advice u can give here will be limited!
But basically I just wanna know how to stop Adelscott builds on big maps if you scout on Core? Maybe send 2 probes to scout a bit faster?
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United States8477 Posts
On January 30 2012 07:53 bankai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 14:01 NrGmonk wrote:On January 27 2012 10:55 BronzeKnee wrote:
Hey Monk, do you have any replays of you holding the 1-1-2 with your recommended response (Stargate plus Forge)? In my experience, the Observer scouts it too late to react in time to getting the defense you recommend. I must be doing something wrong. Nope, don't have one. You can post a replay and I'll look at it On January 27 2012 11:32 bankai wrote:
In PvP been facing proxy gates more all of a sudden so have a question.
1) What is the best way to scout for these? I 12 Gate scout from a 1 Gate Tech build opening, and was wondering should I:
a) Send my probe to scout his base immediately
b) Send my probe around the outskirts and nearby areas of my base for proxies. I feel like this isnt a full-proof method of scouting a proxy gate is happening because u may simply miss where they planted their gates. Whereas if you go to their base, and immediately see no buildings, then its more 'conclusive' that cheese is on the way (either proxy gates or cannon rush) and I should cancel my Cybercore immediately.
c) Do (b) first then (a) after. My concern with doing this is that I will get to their base too late to know what is going on and react (similar reasoning to (b)).
2) What ladder maps is it safe to scout on pylon/core and what maps pose potential cheese builds like cannon and proxy gate rushes?
Advice from those experienced?? 1. Always scout the common proxy locations if you 12 scout. If you go straight to his bases, you need to 9 scout or you won't get there in time to react. There are common proxy locations for every map and if you learn them, you will do fine. If you doesn't proxy at the common locations, it will usually be very far from your base and you'll be able to fend it off with a core and good micro. 2. It's safe to scout on core only on maps with 4 possible spawn positions. Not metal/shattered/shakrus, because they have 3 possible spawn positions. Not xelnaga because it's 2 spawn positions. Yes to antiga/emtombed. Can't remember any other 4 player ladder maps off the top of my head. Hi Monk, thanks for your help. I tried applying what you mention in a PvP on Antiga. I scouted on core (doing Alej's 1Gate Tech build) and lost to a weird AdelScott kinda build. Basically the guy did a 13 Gate 15 Gate (no gas) and chrono'ed lots of zealots. At this point I had my first zealot out, and 1st stalker halfway, he had 3zealots streaming into my base, another 2 shortly after. He just sends 2 zealots chasing my stalker, while another 3 go and kill my probe line. This was really hard to defend by microing a stalker and probes at the same time. I feel that if I simply scouted this build earlier, then I could have easily reacted with simcity/cannon. Sooo....my question is, how do you stop Adelscott build on big maps? Esp if ur unlucky and scout him last. In your OP you mention to use simcity and chrono stalkers to kite his zealots back, but I dont even know zealots are on the way, nor do I have a stalker out by hte time his zealots hit my doorstep Ohh sorry, I would attach a replay but I dont have it on this comp.....so I realise any advice u can give here will be limited! But basically I just wanna know how to stop Adelscott builds on big maps if you scout on Core? Maybe send 2 probes to scout a bit faster?
Don't know. Personally, I only core scout on talderim, so this situation hasn't come up for me. You should post in the protoss help thread for a better response. Btw your original question only asked how to be safe versus proxy gates and cannons.
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On January 30 2012 08:44 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 07:53 bankai wrote:On January 27 2012 14:01 NrGmonk wrote:On January 27 2012 10:55 BronzeKnee wrote:
Hey Monk, do you have any replays of you holding the 1-1-2 with your recommended response (Stargate plus Forge)? In my experience, the Observer scouts it too late to react in time to getting the defense you recommend. I must be doing something wrong. Nope, don't have one. You can post a replay and I'll look at it On January 27 2012 11:32 bankai wrote:
In PvP been facing proxy gates more all of a sudden so have a question.
1) What is the best way to scout for these? I 12 Gate scout from a 1 Gate Tech build opening, and was wondering should I:
a) Send my probe to scout his base immediately
b) Send my probe around the outskirts and nearby areas of my base for proxies. I feel like this isnt a full-proof method of scouting a proxy gate is happening because u may simply miss where they planted their gates. Whereas if you go to their base, and immediately see no buildings, then its more 'conclusive' that cheese is on the way (either proxy gates or cannon rush) and I should cancel my Cybercore immediately.
c) Do (b) first then (a) after. My concern with doing this is that I will get to their base too late to know what is going on and react (similar reasoning to (b)).
2) What ladder maps is it safe to scout on pylon/core and what maps pose potential cheese builds like cannon and proxy gate rushes?
Advice from those experienced?? 1. Always scout the common proxy locations if you 12 scout. If you go straight to his bases, you need to 9 scout or you won't get there in time to react. There are common proxy locations for every map and if you learn them, you will do fine. If you doesn't proxy at the common locations, it will usually be very far from your base and you'll be able to fend it off with a core and good micro. 2. It's safe to scout on core only on maps with 4 possible spawn positions. Not metal/shattered/shakrus, because they have 3 possible spawn positions. Not xelnaga because it's 2 spawn positions. Yes to antiga/emtombed. Can't remember any other 4 player ladder maps off the top of my head. Hi Monk, thanks for your help. I tried applying what you mention in a PvP on Antiga. I scouted on core (doing Alej's 1Gate Tech build) and lost to a weird AdelScott kinda build. Basically the guy did a 13 Gate 15 Gate (no gas) and chrono'ed lots of zealots. At this point I had my first zealot out, and 1st stalker halfway, he had 3zealots streaming into my base, another 2 shortly after. He just sends 2 zealots chasing my stalker, while another 3 go and kill my probe line. This was really hard to defend by microing a stalker and probes at the same time. I feel that if I simply scouted this build earlier, then I could have easily reacted with simcity/cannon. Sooo....my question is, how do you stop Adelscott build on big maps? Esp if ur unlucky and scout him last. In your OP you mention to use simcity and chrono stalkers to kite his zealots back, but I dont even know zealots are on the way, nor do I have a stalker out by hte time his zealots hit my doorstep Ohh sorry, I would attach a replay but I dont have it on this comp.....so I realise any advice u can give here will be limited! But basically I just wanna know how to stop Adelscott builds on big maps if you scout on Core? Maybe send 2 probes to scout a bit faster? Don't know. Personally, I only core scout on talderim, so this situation hasn't come up for me. You should post in the protoss help thread for a better response. Btw your original question only asked how to be safe versus proxy gates and cannons.
Ok not to worry, will post in the other thread as you suggest.
Yeah my original concern was proxy gates, but I faced the Adelscott kinda build the other day so thought I should sneak the question in 
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United States8477 Posts
Added an example vod for how to defend 6 pool with forge fe build.
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I'm in a strange situation. I checked my career records on B.Net last night, and to my dismay I discovered I have consistanly been getting worse. Season 1:rank 2 in gold. Season 2: top 50 in gold. Season 3: top 5 in silver. Season 4 top 25 in Silver. Season 5 top 50 in Silver. At this rate next season I'm going to be back in bronze league. It's a shame. I was placed in Bronze League in season 1 and was able to improve to the point where I was being matched against Platinum players regularly.
I know for a fact my play has improved. My fundamental understanding of the game has improved. My control and build orders have improved. I'm pushing the front prior to warp gate, ling speed, or concussive shells for additional information. Even my sim cities have been improved, as I'm actually placing buildings in spots I feel is best for certain reasons. I'm scouting for 3rd bases and hidden expansions, all of this is stuff I never did season 1, but my record continues to decline. PvT is my best match up, and I have beat Master league Terrans in best of 3 matches, but still my league rating declines.
TL;DR Why has my record been in constant decline, even though I am improving as a player?
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Sabin, you may be improving overall but guess what, other people are experiencing the same improvements as well. The thing that makes the difference is how much you improved compared to the mass general in the same league. Keep on trying. Cheers.
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Monk, I love your guides, you should totally update this man!
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