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On January 26 2013 02:19 uyubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 17:37 Type|NarutO wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 25 2013 10:36 uyubo wrote:
I'm using 1 rax FE into 3rax medivac stim timing in TvP, but I've been having a lot of trouble doing damage with this and keeping up if it doesn't do much.
A lot of protoss I play will have storm by the time I get to there base, which pretty much melts my push completely. And sometimes they'll just have two collosus and clean it up just as easily. Then I go back and macro up my MMM + viking + ghost, but can never win engagements late game vs. HT/collosus deathballs. What should I be doing differently?
P.S What is the best way to deal with HTs? What I've been doing is trying to snipe the observer with a scan and some vikings, then run in and EMP everything then stim and attack. But even when I feel like I do this well, they'll still have two or three storms and my army just melts. Should I be using snipe instead?
thanks Hey there, I'll try to break it down as much as possible without making it sound like a math test. While I generally wouldn't call your strategy bad to begin with, nowadays it seems to be outdated. What you call out as a 1 rax fast expansion with a timing behind it, usually will not work anymore, because most of the Protoss have their expand up early and rush for either colossus or storm. Your timing if you play it well should hit before the 2nd colossus and before storm (low units in that case) but its not a push that you can actually win the game with against any Protoss that is not completely bad. He can stall time if he needs with forcefields and as you already said you die and fall behind. Here's my take on your situation, without completely screwing you over. A 1 barracks fast expand is in most cases a good and save build, stick to it. While you try to execute a 3 barracks stim+medivac timing, I'd suggest for playing a bit more clever. First of all, you should know what Protoss is up to but lets assume you know how to figure out if a 5 6 7 gate is coming towards you, if you don't you can write me an PM or ask here and you will be helped I guess, but writing it out now would make it too long of a post. If you constantly build units from your 3 barracks while teching up you should have a good force to move out with before your 2 medivacs are done. You can rally them behind but move out a bit, check the watchtower, send an scv to his base if you are unsure whats up / where he is. If you catch him out on the map (aka not watch tower, not his base) I'd be a bit more defensive but other than that, you can apply pressure. Pressure doesn't always mean attacking. Pressuring can be showing presence on the map, denying his vision. As soon as your medivacs are there, poking is fine but actually attacking is dumb. Protoss has the best defensive ability when it comes down to defending ramps, terrain in total. He can make up for supply deficit with simply cutting your army, he can deny fire power or forcefield-circle you to bug you. You got medivacs, mobility and the smaller your mid-sized forced is the stronger you will be in a battle against an equal force. Protoss AoE scales on big battles. So the best thing you can do if you see he's not low on units and has colossus out is to load up your medivacs, feel free to scan his mainbase. Obviously this kind of gives away what you are trying. A good Protoss will have colossus/sentry/zealot in front of his natural while he has stalkers as drop defence in his main. This obviously means that he is ready to defend your drop, but he still doesn't have his complete army together. Attacking and losing your army is worth than putting it into dropships and camp it outside his mainbase, in the open space/air. What can he do about it without a stargate? Right, nothing. He has to be ready to defend and its always a threat. If you drop and lose your army, you fall behind. If you attack and lose your army, you fall behind. If you attack and its successful you win. If you attack and trade, Protoss can take a 3rd base and you lose your opinion to pressure because with warpgates he can replenish faster, also he could do a 2 base timing in which case your loss of units/trade would also be bad. So in 3/4 cases you don't really get an advantage, but disadvantage. In 1 case you win. See the problem? If you park 2 dropships outside his base, he will think twice about a 2 base timing. Its either weaker cause he has to leave units behind or he has to take the risk of your dropships being unloaded, destroying tech/economy leading to him not supporting his 2 base allin anymore. In general it will make him more defensive, taking a 3rd base. While doing that you can easily go up to a 3rd yourself without much pressure. Start building vikings in case of robo(colossus) after 4 medivacs (personal preference, as you park 2 outside his base, can also build 6) or add a 2nd starport. Go ghost tech if you see twilight/dual forge. With your 3rd base building you should be up to 5 barracks, after a running 3rd to 6-7. From that point on, you are neither behind nor ahead, but you have established a good economy and from that point on, its down to mechanics. Good luck! Thanks! Yeah, what you're describing is exactly what I've been encountering. So, I use the ~10minute army to get map control and contain the protoss on 2 base, then what? What I've been doing when my attack fails is just continue producing MMM mixing in vikings and/or ghosts depending on what they have. But eventually when they attack my army just melts so fast. The unit composition I'm usually losing to is something like HT, collosus, sentry zealots. What is the ideal terran unit composition to deal with that? I try to pick off collosus with vikings before the engagement, and I can land some EMPs, but they always seem to still have enough energy to storm. Is snipe more effective in this situation? I have pretty much the same problem vs Z as well, not knowing what to transition into lategame. I can be harassing and doing really well with marine/tank/medivac early game, and deal OK with infestors in the mid game, but then broodlords or ultralisks seem to pop up so suddenly and, again, my army melts. I don't seem to have this problem in TvT where most games are marine/tank positioning battles into raven/battlecruisers if the game goes super long. I can keep up with that, I feel like I have even footing. I guess what I'm asking is what would the ideal lategame in TvP and TvZ look like for terran, what should I be heading towards? thanks again
Anyone have any insight on this? thanks 
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On January 28 2013 21:00 HugzForL wrote:Hello people. I am a top diamond Terran trying to get to master (i've been playing sc2 for 3 months now) and i really need to know what is wrong in my game. http://drop.sc/299396Here is a TvZ in which i got utterly destroyed by a single engagment and i couldnt ever recover from that. What went wrong except from that? Also, i don't really know how to open versus zerg, as i find 11/11 really random (if zergs scout or not). I always play macro so i 1Rax FE every game, sometimes it goes well sometimes not. Do you have any bo for me?
You scouted a really fast gas from the Zerg, so I would recommend to take your own gases faster: you can't be 100% sure but such a fast Extractor can mean Speedling pressure (as he did indeed), so having your first Hellions out earlier helps to sound the alarm, defend better and retaliate faster. Be sure to retain your Hellions as they're really critical to challenge his Zergling herd on the map and possibly force additional Zerglings: when you retreat your Hellions after scouting the oncoming Zerglings, retreat them behind the Bunker and not on your ramp, otherwise (as it happened) they get stuck and surrounded there. I strongly recommend to keep producing Hellions, say 8-10 so you're able to scout his follow-up without having to worry about a weaker Hellion count being surrounded and dealt with easily.
Pull 2 SCVs out of your Refineries if you intend to get a fast third, otherwise you will bank gas and you will be mineral-starved.
You need to know what he's up to after Lair (you can use Hellions, Scans, or Marines/Medivacs to check his composition/tech path); your game plan differs considerably depending on whether he commits to Mutalisk play or rushes Hive behind Zerglings/Infestors, so you need the information to adapt.
Supply blocks really hurt with Terran's production, try to use some Supply calls to mitigate the consequences of macro mistakes if you already have good saturation.
You need some kind of wall at your natural (between your natural and the “normal” third since you took the middle base as your third), and a Bunker at your third since it's quite exposed.
Get a third Factory againt committed Mutalisk play, you need way more Tanks; you had only 3 in your attack while 8-10 and possibly a Thor are needed against his composition.
Do not recklessly charge on creep without vision, use Scans to see his army; do not leave your Tanks without anti-air support (otherwise Mutalisks snipe them) and do not overextend with your Marines, if you go too far out of your Tanks' range he can charge, surround and kill them easily; pre-split better so this kind of disaster does not happen.
DeMusliM frequently plays the same kind of build order, i. e. fast third, Hellions but no Banshees, fast dual upgades, teching bio and Medivacs before adding Tanks, so you might be interested in checking his stream.
Your opening is fine, just refine the minerals/gas ratio and it will be smoother.
You don't care much about Zerg scouting/deducing your 11/11 actually, the only annoying thing he can do is attack your building SCVs with his scouting Drone if he finds the location of your proxy rightaway; apart from this a scouted 11/11 still retains some ambiguity because he does not know how many SCVs you will pull (except on maps with überstupid Overlord spots like Cloud Kingdom) and thus how much you will commit.
On January 28 2013 22:30 uyubo wrote:Show nested quote +Thanks! Yeah, what you're describing is exactly what I've been encountering. So, I use the ~10minute army to get map control and contain the protoss on 2 base, then what?
What I've been doing when my attack fails is just continue producing MMM mixing in vikings and/or ghosts depending on what they have. But eventually when they attack my army just melts so fast. The unit composition I'm usually losing to is something like HT, collosus, sentry zealots. What is the ideal terran unit composition to deal with that? I try to pick off collosus with vikings before the engagement, and I can land some EMPs, but they always seem to still have enough energy to storm. Is snipe more effective in this situation?
I have pretty much the same problem vs Z as well, not knowing what to transition into lategame. I can be harassing and doing really well with marine/tank/medivac early game, and deal OK with infestors in the mid game, but then broodlords or ultralisks seem to pop up so suddenly and, again, my army melts. I don't seem to have this problem in TvT where most games are marine/tank positioning battles into raven/battlecruisers if the game goes super long. I can keep up with that, I feel like I have even footing. I guess what I'm asking is what would the ideal lategame in TvP and TvZ look like for terran, what should I be heading towards? thanks again Anyone have any insight on this? thanks
Post a typical replay of your losses, it will be simpler.
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Thanks a lot for the insight. I follow Demuslim quite a bit indeed but i saw Yoda doing this opening versus Nerchio@IEM and i liked it. J
ust, when do i have to pull 2 scv from each gas? when i start my first factory?
Thanks a lot again.
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I've been using 1 rax FE for my TvT matchup and have been successful with it. However, doing this makes it difficult to gain an edge over my opponent and drags out the game for 40mins. I decided to change my style with the 1/1/1 banshee expo but i find it difficult to do damage if they scout properly, e.g. seeing my 13 gas and scanning the techlab at 6 mins then massing turrets. So what can i do in this situation to force economy damage? i tried to remedy my loss by doing 1/1/1 double expo but i find my defense stretched too thin and vulnerable. Is it better to all in?
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How hard is it to bunker rush a zerg when you're a lower league player?
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Canada8160 Posts
On January 29 2013 04:19 TheMannerMule wrote:
How hard is it to bunker rush a zerg when you're a lower league player?
Practice this strategy in versus A.I. until you get pretty good at it, then it shouldn't be to hard to pull off in league games.
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What is a good 2 base all in vs zerg? Looking for a guide/build order
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On January 29 2013 06:55 Jimmy Raynor wrote:
What is a good 2 base all in vs zerg? Looking for a guide/build order
There aren't any "good" ones. There are a variety of 2 base attacks still left that are suboptimal. The ones that come to mind are marine/marauder/hellion (day9 did a daily on this, "Polt TvZ") and some variant of marine/hellion with combat shield only. Blue flame hellion attacks can still be good but those aren't anywhere near all-in. Probably the most all-in build that can still work is 4port banshee, but these are basically coinflips. If they went 2base muta you lose. Or if they see it coming, they're all very easy to stop, unlike protoss allins for example.
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Marauder hellion is still pretty decent I think.
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Hi all! I´m a brazilian gold player, and i really need your help to improve.
Here´s what i need!
A TvZ Mech Build Order: based on hellion harassing soon as possible.
A TvT Biuld Order: some kind of one base all in, cuz i realy hate TvT.
Thank you in advance!
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How and when should I be aggressive with marine tank versus Zerg (assuming I have opened 1 rax cc -> 1-1-1 hellion banshee)? Also how would I play versus a Zerg who was going mutas as apposed to the standard infestor.
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On January 29 2013 02:10 Heavenfallz wrote:
I've been using 1 rax FE for my TvT matchup and have been successful with it. However, doing this makes it difficult to gain an edge over my opponent and drags out the game for 40mins. I decided to change my style with the 1/1/1 banshee expo but i find it difficult to do damage if they scout properly, e.g. seeing my 13 gas and scanning the techlab at 6 mins then massing turrets. So what can i do in this situation to force economy damage? i tried to remedy my loss by doing 1/1/1 double expo but i find my defense stretched too thin and vulnerable. Is it better to all in?
Save your banshee(s) and cancel cloak if you want, he will build a couple of turrets near mineral patches and if he is on 2 base this can be a 400 - 600 mineral investment. Contain his natural with tanks, marines and banshees (use banshee for vision and sniping tanks but be very careful with them) then grab your third, probably worthwhile starting Vikings after first 2 banshees. But you should have a larger army size due to forcing turrets with your tl'd starport.
i do 1 base all in 1/1/1 and this is what i do if my tl'd starport gets scouted except i go for win with push and pull some scvs to repair
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are there any major balance changes for terrran ? i played the race now for years but i dont want to play tvz anymore ,it find it extremly imbalanced in favor of zerg
i want to know it because I wanna switch to zerg if nothing special happens (especially in HOTS )
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On January 29 2013 22:22 xgtx wrote:
are there any major balance changes for terrran ? i played the race now for years but i dont want to play tvz anymore ,it find it extremly imbalanced in favor of zerg
i want to know it because I wanna switch to zerg if nothing special happens (especially in HOTS )
I would check out the Terran's benefits in HotS before I changed. They got Hellbat and Medivacs with speed boost. (I doubt they will stay like this forever though. It seems a little too powerful.)
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For 2 rax in TvP, some prefer pushing with shells and some with stim.
What is the difference in terms of time, power, etc. Generally the adv and disadvantages of shells vs stim?
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On January 30 2013 14:58 dynwar7 wrote:
For 2 rax in TvP, some prefer pushing with shells and some with stim.
What is the difference in terms of time, power, etc. Generally the adv and disadvantages of shells vs stim?
The version with concussive shells hits much earlier and aims to punish greed(such as late gates or robo first after expand). It's not seen very often anymore though. It's pretty easily stopped when scouted, and part of that is the layout of maps today. This build was popular on maps with no ramp at the natural, such as TDA.
With the stim version you don't get marauders(maybe 1 to try to trick him), and you tech to tanks and medivacs. This version is stronger overall imo, it's simply harder to defend. You also have the possibility to drop, which helps with getting a good position as he has to defend your drop.
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On January 30 2013 16:00 Bwall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 14:58 dynwar7 wrote:
For 2 rax in TvP, some prefer pushing with shells and some with stim.
What is the difference in terms of time, power, etc. Generally the adv and disadvantages of shells vs stim? The version with concussive shells hits much earlier and aims to punish greed(such as late gates or robo first after expand). It's not seen very often anymore though. It's pretty easily stopped when scouted, and part of that is the layout of maps today. This build was popular on maps with no ramp at the natural, such as TDA. With the stim version you don't get marauders(maybe 1 to try to trick him), and you tech to tanks and medivacs. This version is stronger overall imo, it's simply harder to defend. You also have the possibility to drop, which helps with getting a good position as he has to defend your drop.
2rax (techlab and reactor) +concusive push isnt an allin, u expand behind it. Yes it sometimes wins u the game right there, but the general idea is to force him making gateway units so his tech is delayed. If u macro well behind the harras, ur in the drivingseat because when medivacs pop at ten minutes, he has not enough tech to counter that. (assuming this is the strategy ur talking bout)
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CC first into 3 rax siege tank timing is a fairly good 2 base attack
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How to be aggressive as Terran? I want to be ultra aggressive kinda like MKP. Any advice about this greatly appreciated.
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EPT
