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Am I the only one who just gets extremely mad when losing to a infestor broodlord queen corruptor mix? I tried everything, but everytime my army just melts. - If I overmake vikings, then I die to the ultra switch + mass vikings are really not that cost-efficiënt - 6-7 ghosts with cloack, but this only works vs bad zergs (overseer hurdur) - ravens: man, for the investment I make into them they just suck, unless my opponent is friendly and clumps up, but highmaster-grandmaster zergs know very well how to split their broodlords-corruptors - mech is not possible, since I open rine-tank. If you want mech lategame, you need 3-3 on it, and with a rine-tank opening this is not possible - mass drop: works like a charm, but not against good zergs: these know you will drop, and they keep defending and defending, untill they got the perfect army - basetrade: works okay, but most good zergs don't let this happen, and if it happens, I can kill their bases, but then they still got their unkillable army, and hatches at their side.
I want to learn, but it's getting depressing after more then 5 months looking for a sollution. Every single highmaster-grandmaster zerg responds with: - sorry, can't help you, I don't know what you could do (75%) - make mass viking (so I can kill you with an ultralisk switch ;d) - kill me before broodlords (okay..) - mass raven (clump up pls)
Most of the time I am even with the zerg, and I wonder what gives him the right to be able to roll over me. If he is ahead: no problem, but even should mean an even fight, where the best micro wins.
Has anyone got the bo of Byuns 2/1/1 ? I would really like to try it because Ive seen the Prime terrans do it a couple of times and I want to mix up my TvP. To be more specific its the 2/1/1 with stim cs marines tanks and medivacs. If someone could help It would be apreciated
On January 01 2013 01:23 GumBa wrote: Has anyone got the bo of Byuns 2/1/1 ? I would really like to try it because Ive seen the Prime terrans do it a couple of times and I want to mix up my TvP. To be more specific its the 2/1/1 with stim cs marines tanks and medivacs. If someone could help It would be apreciated
Should be:
10 depo 12 rax 13 gas 16 orbital 17 marine 17 rax + reactor on rax 17 depo consistent marines out of reactored rax tech lab - marauder + stim when marauder finishes, start 2nd gas and only marines out of techlabbed barracks poke with 1 marauder, 5 marines factory - tech lab - tanks + siege mode @ 90% stim - start port @28 SCV's stop scv's medivac out of port combat shield @8:45 push with 8 scv, ~25 marines, 1 marauder, 2 tanks, 1 medivac
At least that's what I have written in my notebook, haven't really played it that much, but hope it'll help you
On January 01 2013 01:23 GumBa wrote: Has anyone got the bo of Byuns 2/1/1 ? I would really like to try it because Ive seen the Prime terrans do it a couple of times and I want to mix up my TvP. To be more specific its the 2/1/1 with stim cs marines tanks and medivacs. If someone could help It would be apreciated
Should be:
10 depo 12 rax 13 gas 16 orbital 17 marine 17 rax + reactor on rax 17 depo consistent marines out of reactored rax tech lab - marauder + stim when marauder finishes, start 2nd gas and only marines out of techlabbed barracks poke with 1 marauder, 5 marines factory - tech lab - tanks + siege mode @ 90% stim - start port @28 SCV's stop scv's medivac out of port combat shield @8:45 push with 8 scv, ~25 marines, 1 marauder, 2 tanks, 1 medivac
At least that's what I have written in my notebook, haven't really played it that much, but hope it'll help you
On January 01 2013 01:23 GumBa wrote: Has anyone got the bo of Byuns 2/1/1 ? I would really like to try it because Ive seen the Prime terrans do it a couple of times and I want to mix up my TvP. To be more specific its the 2/1/1 with stim cs marines tanks and medivacs. If someone could help It would be apreciated
Should be:
10 depo 12 rax 13 gas 16 orbital 17 marine 17 rax + reactor on rax 17 depo consistent marines out of reactored rax tech lab - marauder + stim when marauder finishes, start 2nd gas and only marines out of techlabbed barracks poke with 1 marauder, 5 marines factory - tech lab - tanks + siege mode @ 90% stim - start port @28 SCV's stop scv's medivac out of port combat shield @8:45 push with 8 scv, ~25 marines, 1 marauder, 2 tanks, 1 medivac
At least that's what I have written in my notebook, haven't really played it that much, but hope it'll help you
Ahh thank you <3
Is there a vod of this being used you could link please?
On January 01 2013 01:23 GumBa wrote: Has anyone got the bo of Byuns 2/1/1 ? I would really like to try it because Ive seen the Prime terrans do it a couple of times and I want to mix up my TvP. To be more specific its the 2/1/1 with stim cs marines tanks and medivacs. If someone could help It would be apreciated
Should be:
10 depo 12 rax 13 gas 16 orbital 17 marine 17 rax + reactor on rax 17 depo consistent marines out of reactored rax tech lab - marauder + stim when marauder finishes, start 2nd gas and only marines out of techlabbed barracks poke with 1 marauder, 5 marines factory - tech lab - tanks + siege mode @ 90% stim - start port @28 SCV's stop scv's medivac out of port combat shield @8:45 push with 8 scv, ~25 marines, 1 marauder, 2 tanks, 1 medivac
At least that's what I have written in my notebook, haven't really played it that much, but hope it'll help you
Ahh thank you <3
Is there a vod of this being used you could link please?
MKP does lose in this game because Brown does the direct counter btw:
On December 31 2012 16:42 NoZyneighbor wrote: In the recent GSL5, I saw a new take on the hellion banshee 3OC, in game 2 of Taeja vs Dark, Taeja went for a stim marine hellion double medivac push instead of the usual hellion banshee harrass.
He went CC fist into 2 rax, double OC then gets double gas, first 150 gas goes into a factory and reactor, the rax that builds the reactor builds another reactor and starts producing marines, the 2nd rax build a tech lab while the first rax is building the first reactor and researches stim, the 2nd rax continues producing marines and is able to produce marauders if roach aggression in scouted. A third CC is built while the 2nd rax is building the reactor. As the third set of hellions is being built, a starport is built and switches once the third set of hellions is done and produces 2 medivacs once it is finished. as the 2 medivacs are being produced Taeja starts to push out.
The push consisted of 6 hellions, 2 medivacs, and about 20 or so stim marines that hits just before the 10min mark, Taeja then transitions into marine tank medivac and double ups
As Taeja gets a starport, he also gets the 2 natural gas, double ebay, and techlab on factory for tanks and siege. He just transitions into the normal marine tank medivac with double ups
One thing weakness I can see of the build is that the upgrades are pretty late with 1/1 not starting until about after the 9 mins mark
Also I felt that part of the effectiveness of the build was due to Taeja denying any lings from scouting his push from coming out
The map also helped in that Dark did not have anywhere for a overlord to scout Taeja moving out as Antiga does not have a high ground location for the ovie to sit
I asked this long time ago in the other thread
Basically Not viable. and it's basically because zergs in korea apparently don't like scouting or something
On September 14 2012 12:20 Ver wrote: 1. Are 2 base marine/medivac or marine/medivac/hellion builds viable? + Show Spoiler [No, here's why] +
Short answer: No. Stop doing them. Stop asking about them unless you have definite proof that they can beat 6 queen 3 base builds that either counter or ling/bane flank the attack. Yes GSL players do them sometimes, but don't copy them here. Their only use is to win if the Zerg does 2 base allins, like ultra fast allin muta ling or speed roach allin. You also get an ok game vs eco 2 base infestor or muta, but worse than you would have with hellion/banshee, particularly vs infestor.
Long Answer:
They are abysmal against the normal Zerg build that has no real weaknesses. The only reason that Korean Terrans use them (and occasionally have seen success with) is due to the bizarre weakness of Korean Zergs to early timings at the moment. Korean Zergs rarely sacrifice an overlord to scout the main, which should be a given now, out of sheer greed and blindly assuming hellion/banshee. They also tend to be rather lazy with creep at the third base, such as Sniper vs Bogus on Whirlwind.
Here's what happens if the Zerg plays correctly: Zerg sacs overlord between 645-715, sees Terran build. Makes sure to add baneling nest at 830-845~, then cuts drones at around 60-63~ to make ling/bane. When attack hits at 930-10 mins depending on version, the Zerg either a) has a ling/bane counter waiting at the Terran third and he busts the natural, killing huge amounts of scvs and possibly getting into the production area. Meanwhile the Terran has to push onto creep and micro in both spots at once, while hte zerg only has to set up the flank on creep. . The safer alternative is simply to have one premade group of lings out already setting up a flank, as Mystik did, with the reinforcements and morphing banes rallied to the queens (pull all 6). When the Terran runs on creep and attacks, he gets surrounded by ling/bane will smacked by invulnerable queens. Entire force dies, Zerg has full initiative and can win with a baneling bust while taking a 4th and teching to muta or infestor and hive and droning to 80.
. Earlier attacks are possible, such as Marineking vs Symbol on Daybreak from IPL5 Korean qualifer, but they will not involve medivacs and thus the entire army dies to the ling/bane surround. It's critical you have a zergling in front of their natural, especially if they take the watchtower, to note their moveout timing if you don't have the free overlord spot in case they go early.
Three games to examine proper Zerg responses are: Sheth vs Polt (Daybreak, MLG Columbus 2012); Mystik vs Illusion (Daybreak; WCS USA, check MLG for vods); Suppy vs LG-IM.Happy (IPLTL, Daybreak).
On December 31 2012 03:38 Snowbear wrote: If the timing is correct, you will have 1 tank in the best scenario, and that's not enough. The tank will get sniped pretty fast.
Like I said, I am not talking about 10 roaches. I am talking about more then 20, with speed, 2 shotting fully repaired bunkers.
With mech you can get 2-4 Tanks skipping one Armory and delaying the other one to get earlier Factories. With biomech you can get 2 Tech Labs on your Barracks and use Bunkers + Marines/Marauders and your Tank to defend; yes those Bunkers should eventually fall but they're here to soak damage anyway, and Zerg has to bust your Depot wall first to get in range. And yes I am talking about 20+ Speedroaches too.
On December 31 2012 03:38 Lefaa wrote: Hi!
Is there any viable all in or heavy pressure builds against protoss? I`m losing every single tvp cos i can`t deal any damage in midgame (10min medivack timing) although i think im doing that right. And after that, game is basically over for me cos toss just rolls over me with deathball.
Im dia/master
You're not losing those TvPs because your Medivac poke deals no damage since you should rarely be able to deal any noteworthy damage anyway against a competent Protoss using an appropriate build order (unless he double expanded). Your problems probably lie in unit composition and/or control if you always lose major engagements afterwards. Post a replay of one of your typical losses if you want further help.
On December 31 2012 06:38 Whatson wrote: This is pretty much what I've also started doing again. Ver and theDwf preach hellion banshee, but I think zergs have already figured out how to deflect all harassment with minimal damage. And like you said, not going for super fast banshees doesn't leave you open to all the roach timings.
I do not “preach” anything, for I am neither a priest nor a guru. Marauders can defend some Roaches pressure builds without problem, but unlike Banshees they will not allow you to instantly punish a Zerg taking a third and/or resuming Drone production with a low Queen count and/or without additional units; e. g. ForGG vs Stephano on Metropolis @ Dreamhack Open Valencia: ForGG basically suffers game-ending damage from Stephano's Roach pressure, yet Stephano presses the Drone button too hard and ends up losing to ForGG's Hellions/Banshees counter-harass.
Skipping an early Starport in favor of an earlier third and/or upgrades and/or bio tech is perfectly possible (e. g. Bogus' games @ IPL5), but unless I forgot I never said the contrary.
Yes Zergs can deflect this harass with minimal damage, but Zergs can deflect everything anyway, including the most violent 2-bases timings or all-ins. Besides, just like the old Reactor Hellion contain, direct damage (killing Drones) is simply a juicy option if your opponent makes a mistake rather than the primary goal of the thing.
On January 01 2013 01:22 Snowbear wrote: Am I the only one who just gets extremely mad when losing to a infestor broodlord queen corruptor mix? I tried everything, but everytime my army just melts. - If I overmake vikings, then I die to the ultra switch + mass vikings are really not that cost-efficiënt - 6-7 ghosts with cloack, but this only works vs bad zergs (overseer hurdur) - ravens: man, for the investment I make into them they just suck, unless my opponent is friendly and clumps up, but highmaster-grandmaster zergs know very well how to split their broodlords-corruptors - mech is not possible, since I open rine-tank. If you want mech lategame, you need 3-3 on it, and with a rine-tank opening this is not possible - mass drop: works like a charm, but not against good zergs: these know you will drop, and they keep defending and defending, untill they got the perfect army - basetrade: works okay, but most good zergs don't let this happen, and if it happens, I can kill their bases, but then they still got their unkillable army, and hatches at their side.
I want to learn, but it's getting depressing after more then 5 months looking for a sollution. Every single highmaster-grandmaster zerg responds with: - sorry, can't help you, I don't know what you could do (75%) - make mass viking (so I can kill you with an ultralisk switch ;d) - kill me before broodlords (okay..) - mass raven (clump up pls)
Most of the time I am even with the zerg, and I wonder what gives him the right to be able to roll over me. If he is ahead: no problem, but even should mean an even fight, where the best micro wins.
Well, I'm afraid this old answer still stands (question was how to deal with BLs/Corruptors/Infests):
On October 01 2012 15:03 Ver wrote: Honestly nobody has created a reliable method yet: every one relies on the Zerg making mistakes.
The ideal way is to have so much initiative that you can keep forcing trades/killing bases and never let them get critical mass. See Taeja/Revival on Entombed, MLG Raleigh, for an example.
There are three general theories. The first is to try and evade the BL army as long as possible by harassment and dispersing your forces. However, this approach depends on the Zerg being unable to spread creep/overlords/spores effectively to see your strikes coming. If those prerequisites are not in place, you can really throw them off balance. Once they are off balance, you can keep up the pressure. This style has declined in popularity drastically as Zergs have gotten better at handling it, but it is still possible. See Dream vs Sleep, Antiga, GESL; MMA vs Stephano, IPL4, Cloud Kingdom (pre-patch though). Taeja/Nestea, IPLTAC finals. Nestea moves out, Taeja runs in and sacks bases.
The more modern take on this is to combine the above with #3 below to force the Zerg to stay at home for a prolonged period due a threat of counterdrops, while building up a large raven/viking and later battlecruiser force at home. See MVP/Slivko, MVP/Nestea, from IEM Cologne.
The second is to try and bait them into an open area and get a massive surround with bio/thor/tank. Theoretically if they don't have critical mass you can engage in such a way that they can't fungal fast enough (due to being across multiple screens) and thus are unable to prevent you from getting in range. This however only works before 11-12 broods + support, at which point all your ground dies. Examples: Polt/DRG, Entombed, MLG Arena, Marineking/Golden, Metropolis, MLG Anaheim.
The last is to turtle and rush raven/vikings, with the aim of eventually getting battlecruisers. Seeker Missile does not actually hit the broods if the Zerg is good due to range difference; however, it can kill the corruptors. PDD is also extremely useful in keeping vikings alive.
The key is being able to engage at a planetary or an area where they can't kill your tanks easily. Ttanks/pfs are crucial for engaging bl blobs because you can snipe queens/infestors and help clean up infested terran/broodlings; the former especially will wreck you so easily.
And about Ravens: yes, they're rather mediocre but they're mandatory against high BLs/Corruptors/(Queens)/Infests counts; Vikings alone are beyond horrible once numbers get high, you can barely scratch the Corruptor wall.
On January 01 2013 03:37 zhurai wrote: I asked this long time ago in the other thread
Basically Not viable.
He's discussing a different build getting an earlier third before the timing. They share certain weaknesses, though.
On December 31 2012 16:42 NoZyneighbor wrote: In the recent GSL5, I saw a new take on the hellion banshee 3OC, in game 2 of Taeja vs Dark, Taeja went for a stim marine hellion double medivac push instead of the usual hellion banshee harrass.
He went CC fist into 2 rax, double OC then gets double gas, first 150 gas goes into a factory and reactor, the rax that builds the reactor builds another reactor and starts producing marines, the 2nd rax build a tech lab while the first rax is building the first reactor and researches stim, the 2nd rax continues producing marines and is able to produce marauders if roach aggression in scouted. A third CC is built while the 2nd rax is building the reactor. As the third set of hellions is being built, a starport is built and switches once the third set of hellions is done and produces 2 medivacs once it is finished. as the 2 medivacs are being produced Taeja starts to push out.
The push consisted of 6 hellions, 2 medivacs, and about 20 or so stim marines that hits just before the 10min mark, Taeja then transitions into marine tank medivac and double ups
As Taeja gets a starport, he also gets the 2 natural gas, double ebay, and techlab on factory for tanks and siege. He just transitions into the normal marine tank medivac with double ups
One thing weakness I can see of the build is that the upgrades are pretty late with 1/1 not starting until about after the 9 mins mark
Also I felt that part of the effectiveness of the build was due to Taeja denying any lings from scouting his push from coming out
The map also helped in that Dark did not have anywhere for a overlord to scout Taeja moving out as Antiga does not have a high ground location for the ovie to sit
I asked this long time ago in the other thread
Basically Not viable. and it's basically because zergs in korea apparently don't like scouting or something
On September 14 2012 12:20 Ver wrote: 1. Are 2 base marine/medivac or marine/medivac/hellion builds viable? + Show Spoiler [No, here's why] +
Short answer: No. Stop doing them. Stop asking about them unless you have definite proof that they can beat 6 queen 3 base builds that either counter or ling/bane flank the attack. Yes GSL players do them sometimes, but don't copy them here. Their only use is to win if the Zerg does 2 base allins, like ultra fast allin muta ling or speed roach allin. You also get an ok game vs eco 2 base infestor or muta, but worse than you would have with hellion/banshee, particularly vs infestor.
Long Answer:
They are abysmal against the normal Zerg build that has no real weaknesses. The only reason that Korean Terrans use them (and occasionally have seen success with) is due to the bizarre weakness of Korean Zergs to early timings at the moment. Korean Zergs rarely sacrifice an overlord to scout the main, which should be a given now, out of sheer greed and blindly assuming hellion/banshee. They also tend to be rather lazy with creep at the third base, such as Sniper vs Bogus on Whirlwind.
Here's what happens if the Zerg plays correctly: Zerg sacs overlord between 645-715, sees Terran build. Makes sure to add baneling nest at 830-845~, then cuts drones at around 60-63~ to make ling/bane. When attack hits at 930-10 mins depending on version, the Zerg either a) has a ling/bane counter waiting at the Terran third and he busts the natural, killing huge amounts of scvs and possibly getting into the production area. Meanwhile the Terran has to push onto creep and micro in both spots at once, while hte zerg only has to set up the flank on creep. . The safer alternative is simply to have one premade group of lings out already setting up a flank, as Mystik did, with the reinforcements and morphing banes rallied to the queens (pull all 6). When the Terran runs on creep and attacks, he gets surrounded by ling/bane will smacked by invulnerable queens. Entire force dies, Zerg has full initiative and can win with a baneling bust while taking a 4th and teching to muta or infestor and hive and droning to 80.
. Earlier attacks are possible, such as Marineking vs Symbol on Daybreak from IPL5 Korean qualifer, but they will not involve medivacs and thus the entire army dies to the ling/bane surround. It's critical you have a zergling in front of their natural, especially if they take the watchtower, to note their moveout timing if you don't have the free overlord spot in case they go early.
Three games to examine proper Zerg responses are: Sheth vs Polt (Daybreak, MLG Columbus 2012); Mystik vs Illusion (Daybreak; WCS USA, check MLG for vods); Suppy vs LG-IM.Happy (IPLTL, Daybreak).
It's good in the current Korean metagame (popularized by ST_Life) where every zerg is opening gas. Gas openings give the zerg the option to 1. be aggressive (roach, mass speedling, or all in) 2. tech fast to mutalisk 3. speed > take a third (which Dark happened to do in g2 in GSL.
Ver is correct that these timing attacks are horrible vs. gasless quick 3rd builds because they saturate their bases so quick that they have the economy to shit out all the units they want in time. It's not a build-loss or anything but it's definitely not as effective as if the zerg opened with gas.
I'm pretty sure TaeJa did his research on Dark's style (and with this style of play being insanely popular in Korea atm). It had a high probability of giving him an early advantage so that's why he chose this build.
On January 01 2013 01:22 Snowbear wrote: Am I the only one who just gets extremely mad when losing to a infestor broodlord queen corruptor mix? I tried everything, but everytime my army just melts. - If I overmake vikings, then I die to the ultra switch + mass vikings are really not that cost-efficiënt - 6-7 ghosts with cloack, but this only works vs bad zergs (overseer hurdur) - ravens: man, for the investment I make into them they just suck, unless my opponent is friendly and clumps up, but highmaster-grandmaster zergs know very well how to split their broodlords-corruptors - mech is not possible, since I open rine-tank. If you want mech lategame, you need 3-3 on it, and with a rine-tank opening this is not possible - mass drop: works like a charm, but not against good zergs: these know you will drop, and they keep defending and defending, untill they got the perfect army - basetrade: works okay, but most good zergs don't let this happen, and if it happens, I can kill their bases, but then they still got their unkillable army, and hatches at their side.
I want to learn, but it's getting depressing after more then 5 months looking for a sollution. Every single highmaster-grandmaster zerg responds with: - sorry, can't help you, I don't know what you could do (75%) - make mass viking (so I can kill you with an ultralisk switch ;d) - kill me before broodlords (okay..) - mass raven (clump up pls)
Most of the time I am even with the zerg, and I wonder what gives him the right to be able to roll over me. If he is ahead: no problem, but even should mean an even fight, where the best micro wins.
Which option you choose to deal with the Brolord/Infestor composition depends on how much time you have or how much time you can buy.
It hinges on how effective your pre-hive 2/2 timing was. It's a judgement call.
1. If you do significant amount of damage and pretty much put the zerg in an all-in scenario (the ideal TvZ scenario) the correct decision would just to slap reactors on all your starports and just defend/kill them.
2. If you do an okay amount of damage, you have to try and buy enough time (either with drops, counterattacks, etc.) so you can get a sufficient amount of raven/vikings out. The zerg still somewhat has a decent economy (4 bases or so I'd say) and has the ability to ultralisk switch if you just make 100% vikings.
3. If you do little to no damage with your midgame timing, you usually die if your opponent doesn't blunder.
On January 01 2013 01:22 Snowbear wrote: Am I the only one who just gets extremely mad when losing to a infestor broodlord queen corruptor mix? I tried everything, but everytime my army just melts. - If I overmake vikings, then I die to the ultra switch + mass vikings are really not that cost-efficiënt - 6-7 ghosts with cloack, but this only works vs bad zergs (overseer hurdur) - ravens: man, for the investment I make into them they just suck, unless my opponent is friendly and clumps up, but highmaster-grandmaster zergs know very well how to split their broodlords-corruptors - mech is not possible, since I open rine-tank. If you want mech lategame, you need 3-3 on it, and with a rine-tank opening this is not possible - mass drop: works like a charm, but not against good zergs: these know you will drop, and they keep defending and defending, untill they got the perfect army - basetrade: works okay, but most good zergs don't let this happen, and if it happens, I can kill their bases, but then they still got their unkillable army, and hatches at their side.
I want to learn, but it's getting depressing after more then 5 months looking for a sollution. Every single highmaster-grandmaster zerg responds with: - sorry, can't help you, I don't know what you could do (75%) - make mass viking (so I can kill you with an ultralisk switch ;d) - kill me before broodlords (okay..) - mass raven (clump up pls)
Most of the time I am even with the zerg, and I wonder what gives him the right to be able to roll over me. If he is ahead: no problem, but even should mean an even fight, where the best micro wins.
Well the high master-grandmasters zerg got it right. Infester broodlord queen is like the protoss deathball on crack. It is nearly impossible to trade cost efficiently against it without godly micro or praying that the zerg player screws up. Even when you have a superior economy the sheer cost efficiency of the composition can carry them the win which leenock demonstated in a gsl against bomber i think. The only real answer that terran has at the moment is to do a timing attack before broods (2/2 timing attack) or more like Polt's style where you constantly pressure zerg. In the current metagame the broodlord infester composition has no real counter to it where you would not die to an ultra switch which is demonstrated in some of the game ryung played against zerg is the gsl. ( He completely curshes the broodlord composition only to die to 12 ultras that the zerg made cause he had an army that couldn't hit the ground)
On December 29 2012 13:45 Fencar wrote: I'm lost in TvT build-order wise. Can anyone recommend a solid build-order that I can do on most ladder maps which transitions into Marine/Tank/Medivac?
I would prefer written form, but video is fine too.
12 barracks 15 gas 16 OC
Make two marines. Reactor. CC when you have 400 minerals. Factory as soon as you mine 100 gas. Starport asap. Constant marine production Make tank Make viking if they opened gas. Make medivac if they FE'd and put on some counter pressure if possible. Add 2 more barracks (both tech labs to get stim+combat same time) and start upgrades.
Pretty generalized build but it's relatively safe vs everything. I didn't go into every single detail but it's the jist of it for beginners.
On December 29 2012 09:23 Lionbacker wrote: Hi guys, I need some help in the following situation:
TvZ
I scout an early gas, one base, baneling bust. What is the proper build order and adjustment? Bunkers? How many of them? Units? How many of them? If I survive it, how do I transition into mid game and are there particular units I should be shooting for? Any help would be appreciated! I get thrown out of wack and don't know what to do.
By the way, my normal opener is Polt's TvZ.
Thank you again.
? If it's a 1-base baneling bust, don't even have any scvs at your natural (could also just keep your CC in your main base). Wall off with thick structures: raxes, ebays, use your 2nd CC etc. Build a bunker and wait for a sufficient # of hellions (4-6) before reclaiming your natural.
Here's a replay from Theognis' replaypack, I'm looking at the build from the blue player's perspective. How safe is this from cloaked (or not?) banshee openings? Is it a safe build, or are there big weaknesses I should be considering?
If this isn't a solid build, could someone suggest me a nice safe build (possibly with a replay reference). It's hard to just look at replays and copy it, because pros like to cut corners and meta the opponent a little bit, so I can't always tell if it's noob ladder-proof (can hold most allins, macro build, etc)
On January 01 2013 01:22 Snowbear wrote: Am I the only one who just gets extremely mad when losing to a infestor broodlord queen corruptor mix? I tried everything, but everytime my army just melts.
I want to learn, but it's getting depressing after more then 5 months looking for a sollution. Every single highmaster-grandmaster zerg responds with: - sorry, can't help you, I don't know what you could do (75%) - make mass viking (so I can kill you with an ultralisk switch ;d) - kill me before broodlords (okay..) - mass raven (clump up pls)
Most of the time I am even with the zerg, and I wonder what gives him the right to be able to roll over me. If he is ahead: no problem, but even should mean an even fight, where the best micro wins.
I need to get something off my chest too. I have played this game off and on since the release. I have never had consistent success vs zerg, but I can consistently win versus terran and protoss. I heard professional casters say that zerg needs to be nerfed. The pros can't adapt to the infestors. They usually do. It's on blizzard now.
I will say that IamJeffrey has helped me as well as many other posters in these forums. I appreciate that.
It is also seems that the imbalances (yeah i'm saying it) is attracting more people to zerg. I rarely play against another terran anymore on ladder.
All of their units except for roaches are shady, especially..
a) Banelings are pretty easy to mass and use once the game gets going. It takes more skill to avoid being annhilated by them. Micro splitting.
b) Mutalisk. I wish my tanks could fly. They are fast, they destroy buildings, the destroy air units, they destroy land units. Weak sauce man.
c) Infestors. Not only do I get frozen in place by fungal, they do a ton of damage. Or how about when they triple the size of their army with terran infestation. The great equalizer.
I think this is a serious issue. If there is not balance, then you will lose a lot of people not willing to change their races. Warcraft 3 was one of the most balanced RTS's I have ever played, and there was 4 different races.
On January 01 2013 01:22 Snowbear wrote: Am I the only one who just gets extremely mad when losing to a infestor broodlord queen corruptor mix? I tried everything, but everytime my army just melts.
I want to learn, but it's getting depressing after more then 5 months looking for a sollution. Every single highmaster-grandmaster zerg responds with: - sorry, can't help you, I don't know what you could do (75%) - make mass viking (so I can kill you with an ultralisk switch ;d) - kill me before broodlords (okay..) - mass raven (clump up pls)
Most of the time I am even with the zerg, and I wonder what gives him the right to be able to roll over me. If he is ahead: no problem, but even should mean an even fight, where the best micro wins.
I need to get something off my chest too. I have played this game off and on since the release. I have never had consistent success vs zerg, but I can consistently win versus terran and protoss. I heard professional casters say that zerg needs to be nerfed. The pros can't adapt to the infestors. They usually do. It's on blizzard now.
I will say that IamJeffrey has helped me as well as many other posters in these forums. I appreciate that.
It is also seems that the imbalances (yeah i'm saying it) is attracting more people to zerg. I rarely play against another terran anymore on ladder.
All of their units except for roaches are shady, especially..
a) Banelings are pretty easy to mass and use once the game gets going. It takes more skill to avoid being annhilated by them. Micro splitting.
b) Mutalisk. I wish my tanks could fly. They are fast, they destroy buildings, the destroy air units, they destroy land units. Weak sauce man.
c) Infestors. Not only do I get frozen in place by fungal, they do a ton of damage. Or how about when they triple the size of their army with terran infestation. The great equalizer.
I think this is a serious issue. If there is not balance, then you will lose a lot of people not willing to change their races. Warcraft 3 was one of the most balanced RTS's I have ever played, and there was 4 different races.
Of all places, a "help me" thread is not the place to cry about imbalances.
Here's a replay from Theognis' replaypack, I'm looking at the build from the blue player's perspective. How safe is this from cloaked (or not?) banshee openings? Is it a safe build, or are there big weaknesses I should be considering?
If this isn't a solid build, could someone suggest me a nice safe build (possibly with a replay reference). It's hard to just look at replays and copy it, because pros like to cut corners and meta the opponent a little bit, so I can't always tell if it's noob ladder-proof (can hold most allins, macro build, etc)
Thanks
I can't watch the replay because I'm currently without my computer atm (I'm on a laptop). Do you mind explaining what happened in the game (build vs build, etc.) and I will gladly try to explain what's going on in the game.
Been seeking help for over a year. Spent a lot of time researching and studying this game. Spent a lot of time drilling techniques and making build orders subconscious. I have changed my lifestyle in order to improve. Man... the time I have invested into research.
Tried Bomber's strategy presented by Day9. Did that for about 70 games and got rocked. Tried Polt's strategy presented by Day9. Did that for about 100 games and I'm getting rocked. Watched dozens of replays and took copious notes. I have a biochemistry degree and finished with a 3.85 GPA. I hope it isn't a learning curve issue.
These forums have helped tremendously. I had to get that off my chest. I am not getting any results.
I don't like playing the victim. You get a lot further focusing on discipline, individual responsibility, and hard work, but geesh, can I just see a glimpse of success.
I would love to see a replay pack of one successful player doing the same strategy every time. And then studying how he alters and adjusts it as the game goes on. You watch these pros and they do something different every game. That is why I have always liked empirehappy. Guy had a system and it didn't matter that you knew what he was doing. He imposed his will. His system was sound too. It could account for every possibility.
I also like IamJeffrey's style. He is the real deal. He is also very helpful.
I would like to see some replays of Polt dealing with all the crazy stuff that happens on the ladder.
Well, you could always ask us. Or even try and come up with solutions yourself, as long as they work it doesn't really matter if it's not what the super pro gosus are doing.
EPT
. Every single highmaster-grandmaster zerg responds with:
