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Here's a replay from Theognis' replaypack, I'm looking at the build from the blue player's perspective. How safe is this from cloaked (or not?) banshee openings? Is it a safe build, or are there big weaknesses I should be considering?
If this isn't a solid build, could someone suggest me a nice safe build (possibly with a replay reference). It's hard to just look at replays and copy it, because pros like to cut corners and meta the opponent a little bit, so I can't always tell if it's noob ladder-proof (can hold most allins, macro build, etc)
Thanks
I can't watch the replay because I'm currently without my computer atm (I'm on a laptop). Do you mind explaining what happened in the game (build vs build, etc.) and I will gladly try to explain what's going on in the game.
Blue player: 1 rax CC, tech to reactor hellion and starport (hellion drop), 3rd CC at 7:00. While the drop is getting ready/happening, 2 more facts go down. A raven also builds from the starport, don't know if that's relavent
Scv scouted at 3:20, again at 5:10 to confirm the expo, scans at 6:30
Red player: 1 rax CC, double gas, add 1 rax, add 1 fact, starport, etc Looks like standard bio.
I've gotten to (low) masters as toss and zerg, and never bothered using builds because it didn't really matter, but this also means I don't know general timings that I probably should (like when banshees would hit), so I added those scout/scan timings in case that's used to craft the build and help you explain.
Thanks Theognis! Sorry if my descriptions aren't good enough, let me know
Here's a replay from Theognis' replaypack, I'm looking at the build from the blue player's perspective. How safe is this from cloaked (or not?) banshee openings? Is it a safe build, or are there big weaknesses I should be considering?
If this isn't a solid build, could someone suggest me a nice safe build (possibly with a replay reference). It's hard to just look at replays and copy it, because pros like to cut corners and meta the opponent a little bit, so I can't always tell if it's noob ladder-proof (can hold most allins, macro build, etc)
Thanks
I can't watch the replay because I'm currently without my computer atm (I'm on a laptop). Do you mind explaining what happened in the game (build vs build, etc.) and I will gladly try to explain what's going on in the game.
Blue player: 1 rax CC, tech to reactor hellion and starport (hellion drop), 3rd CC at 7:00. While the drop is getting ready/happening, 2 more facts go down. A raven also builds from the starport, don't know if that's relavent
Scv scouted at 3:20, again at 5:10 to confirm the expo, scans at 6:30
Red player: 1 rax CC, double gas, add 1 rax, add 1 fact, starport, etc Looks like standard bio.
I've gotten to (low) masters as toss and zerg, and never bothered using builds because it didn't really matter, but this also means I don't know general timings that I probably should (like when banshees would hit), so I added those scout/scan timings in case that's used to craft the build and help you explain.
Thanks Theognis! Sorry if my descriptions aren't good enough, let me know
edit - this was on daybreak
I'm assuming I'm the blue player doing the hellion drop since I rarely do the FE into 2 rax tank medivac build (and I prefer mech on Daybreak). It's a super safe build but it's very dependent on scouting and reacting to what you see. You only make a medivac and hellion drop (or you can just go cloakshee) if you scout them fast expanding. If they open gas and are doing an aggressive build, you just get a viking instead to thwart off any banshee or medivac that may come. You must also scan at 6:20 to know if you need throw down an ebay incase of cloak. vs. gas first builds, you wanna keep your rax on the reactor a little bit longer to get some marines out for the super early banshee, then you can switch into hellions if you desire.
Red's is a really safe build (if it's the build I think it is). It's pretty much Polt's go-to TvT build if he doesn't go for gas first cloak. It's safe vs. pretty much every aggressive build they can throw at you (including cloak) if you know it's coming.
One of it's weaknesses though (like all super safe builds across all match-ups) is the fact you are just unable to punish someone playing super greedy. You should still be fine for the most part though. One advantage you should always have is your tank count, so with this you are able to play safe and defensive while taking a third.
terrans, i feel for you guys right now....i miss the days of nada v. boxer 45min chess match tvt's in GSL, fucking zerg and protoss bitches ruining everything.
Here's a replay from Theognis' replaypack, I'm looking at the build from the blue player's perspective. How safe is this from cloaked (or not?) banshee openings? Is it a safe build, or are there big weaknesses I should be considering?
If this isn't a solid build, could someone suggest me a nice safe build (possibly with a replay reference). It's hard to just look at replays and copy it, because pros like to cut corners and meta the opponent a little bit, so I can't always tell if it's noob ladder-proof (can hold most allins, macro build, etc)
Thanks
I can't watch the replay because I'm currently without my computer atm (I'm on a laptop). Do you mind explaining what happened in the game (build vs build, etc.) and I will gladly try to explain what's going on in the game.
Blue player: 1 rax CC, tech to reactor hellion and starport (hellion drop), 3rd CC at 7:00. While the drop is getting ready/happening, 2 more facts go down. A raven also builds from the starport, don't know if that's relavent
Scv scouted at 3:20, again at 5:10 to confirm the expo, scans at 6:30
Red player: 1 rax CC, double gas, add 1 rax, add 1 fact, starport, etc Looks like standard bio.
I've gotten to (low) masters as toss and zerg, and never bothered using builds because it didn't really matter, but this also means I don't know general timings that I probably should (like when banshees would hit), so I added those scout/scan timings in case that's used to craft the build and help you explain.
Thanks Theognis! Sorry if my descriptions aren't good enough, let me know
edit - this was on daybreak
I'm assuming I'm the blue player doing the hellion drop since I rarely do the FE into 2 rax tank medivac build (and I prefer mech on Daybreak). It's a super safe build but it's very dependent on scouting and reacting to what you see. You only make a medivac and hellion drop (or you can just go cloakshee) if you scout them fast expanding. If they open gas and are doing an aggressive build, you just get a viking instead to thwart off any banshee or medivac that may come. You must also scan at 6:20 to know if you need throw down an ebay incase of cloak. vs. gas first builds, you wanna keep your rax on the reactor a little bit longer to get some marines out for the super early banshee, then you can switch into hellions if you desire.
Red's is a really safe build (if it's the build I think it is). It's pretty much Polt's go-to TvT build if he doesn't go for gas first cloak. It's safe vs. pretty much every aggressive build they can throw at you (including cloak) if you know it's coming.
One of it's weaknesses though (like all super safe builds across all match-ups) is the fact you are just unable to punish someone playing super greedy. You should still be fine for the most part though. One advantage you should always have is your tank count, so with this you are able to play safe and defensive while taking a third.
From what I've seen watching Polt do his build, as well as doing it myself I think you can punish greedy players. You can do a stim cs push with around 20 marines 2 tanks and a medivac that can do a bit of damage if a player engages stupidly.
Here's a replay from Theognis' replaypack, I'm looking at the build from the blue player's perspective. How safe is this from cloaked (or not?) banshee openings? Is it a safe build, or are there big weaknesses I should be considering?
If this isn't a solid build, could someone suggest me a nice safe build (possibly with a replay reference). It's hard to just look at replays and copy it, because pros like to cut corners and meta the opponent a little bit, so I can't always tell if it's noob ladder-proof (can hold most allins, macro build, etc)
Thanks
I can't watch the replay because I'm currently without my computer atm (I'm on a laptop). Do you mind explaining what happened in the game (build vs build, etc.) and I will gladly try to explain what's going on in the game.
Blue player: 1 rax CC, tech to reactor hellion and starport (hellion drop), 3rd CC at 7:00. While the drop is getting ready/happening, 2 more facts go down. A raven also builds from the starport, don't know if that's relavent
Scv scouted at 3:20, again at 5:10 to confirm the expo, scans at 6:30
Red player: 1 rax CC, double gas, add 1 rax, add 1 fact, starport, etc Looks like standard bio.
I've gotten to (low) masters as toss and zerg, and never bothered using builds because it didn't really matter, but this also means I don't know general timings that I probably should (like when banshees would hit), so I added those scout/scan timings in case that's used to craft the build and help you explain.
Thanks Theognis! Sorry if my descriptions aren't good enough, let me know
edit - this was on daybreak
I'm assuming I'm the blue player doing the hellion drop since I rarely do the FE into 2 rax tank medivac build (and I prefer mech on Daybreak). It's a super safe build but it's very dependent on scouting and reacting to what you see. You only make a medivac and hellion drop (or you can just go cloakshee) if you scout them fast expanding. If they open gas and are doing an aggressive build, you just get a viking instead to thwart off any banshee or medivac that may come. You must also scan at 6:20 to know if you need throw down an ebay incase of cloak. vs. gas first builds, you wanna keep your rax on the reactor a little bit longer to get some marines out for the super early banshee, then you can switch into hellions if you desire.
Red's is a really safe build (if it's the build I think it is). It's pretty much Polt's go-to TvT build if he doesn't go for gas first cloak. It's safe vs. pretty much every aggressive build they can throw at you (including cloak) if you know it's coming.
One of it's weaknesses though (like all super safe builds across all match-ups) is the fact you are just unable to punish someone playing super greedy. You should still be fine for the most part though. One advantage you should always have is your tank count, so with this you are able to play safe and defensive while taking a third.
From what I've seen watching Polt do his build, as well as doing it myself I think you can punish greedy players. You can do a stim cs push with around 20 marines 2 tanks and a medivac that can do a bit of damage if a player engages stupidly.
If a player engages stupidly.
But I won't doubt you. I never really do this build so I don't know all the minute details to it. Do you have any vods of this? I wouldn't mind taking a look.
Here's an example where Polt ends up pushing out a bit later with 3 tanks after deflecting Keen's banshee harass. He doesn't do anything like outright win, but if he positioned his tanks better than he did I think he could have done some nice damage. If you watch the other games of his series with Keen as well as his TvT's in TSL4 generally you'll see a lot of examples of the push.
Here's an example where Polt ends up pushing out a bit later with 3 tanks after deflecting Keen's banshee harass. He doesn't do anything like outright win, but if he positioned his tanks better than he did I think he could have done some nice damage. If you watch the other games of his series with Keen as well as his TvT's in TSL4 generally you'll see a lot of examples of the push.
Hmm, for some reason the link isn't working. But KeeN opening up with banshee play doesn't seem very greedy. It actually seems rather aggressive. I was more talking about 1 rax CC bio, CC first, or triple CC mech (something along those lines)
Try now ^^ Obviously that play isn't very greedy, but that link shows you an example of the push and because you're obviously a very high level player you could imagine a scenario if you go 1 rax double cc bio or mech and that attack hits what would it be able to be holded in the first place.
Im losing to 1base early roaches, against which i don't have a strategy yet. Really annoying...
I do 1raxFE, bout the time my 2nd CC fininshes, i see an early roach warren so i know its comming. i built 2more rax and 2 refineries (filterSC) and start pumpin marines and place 2 bunkers at expo, 1 bunker between ramp and expo and the other between gas and expo but they still get me. So, i'm guessing marines+bunkers don't beat 1base roach rush The winning with ease series talks bout 2base roach rush and not 1 base..
My question is : When i scout an early roach warren, do i have enough time too place 2 techlabs on 2 barrax and get 2 marauders inside 1 bunker between the ramp and the expo on ohana LE? And do i beat a 1base roachrush with strategy?
Any terrans out there familar with the 2 banshee, 3 orbital command opener vs protoss?
EmpireKas did it versus dBling at the Scan Invitational III, shown here:
I can not find any replays of it. I have been doing EmpireHappy's old 2 banshee opener the past few months. I notice that if you do not do enough damage with the banshees the protoss player is way ahead. If you go 3 orbital command and don't do damage with the banshees, you are still fine.
I just can't find any replays of it and it is hard to analyze the build from a cast.
On January 01 2013 08:36 Lionbacker wrote: I have been warned.
Been seeking help for over a year. Spent a lot of time researching and studying this game. Spent a lot of time drilling techniques and making build orders subconscious. I have changed my lifestyle in order to improve. Man... the time I have invested into research.
Tried Bomber's strategy presented by Day9. Did that for about 70 games and got rocked. Tried Polt's strategy presented by Day9. Did that for about 100 games and I'm getting rocked. Watched dozens of replays and took copious notes. I have a biochemistry degree and finished with a 3.85 GPA. I hope it isn't a learning curve issue.
These forums have helped tremendously. I had to get that off my chest. I am not getting any results.
I don't like playing the victim. You get a lot further focusing on discipline, individual responsibility, and hard work, but geesh, can I just see a glimpse of success.
I would love to see a replay pack of one successful player doing the same strategy every time. And then studying how he alters and adjusts it as the game goes on. You watch these pros and they do something different every game. That is why I have always liked empirehappy. Guy had a system and it didn't matter that you knew what he was doing. He imposed his will. His system was sound too. It could account for every possibility.
I also like IamJeffrey's style. He is the real deal. He is also very helpful.
I would like to see some replays of Polt dealing with all the crazy stuff that happens on the ladder.
if you're gonna use a studying example, you can study biochem as much as you want, but if you don't read the questions properly and don't execute during the test, you're not gonna do well. unless you're some pro (and even pros), you can always improve. crying about it won't help you
Im a gold terran and i can never figure out when to stop producing scvs is their a specific number or is it dependant on the situation? Any advice? Thanks in advance :D
On January 01 2013 08:36 Lionbacker wrote: I have been warned.
Been seeking help for over a year. Spent a lot of time researching and studying this game. Spent a lot of time drilling techniques and making build orders subconscious. I have changed my lifestyle in order to improve. Man... the time I have invested into research.
Tried Bomber's strategy presented by Day9. Did that for about 70 games and got rocked. Tried Polt's strategy presented by Day9. Did that for about 100 games and I'm getting rocked. Watched dozens of replays and took copious notes. I have a biochemistry degree and finished with a 3.85 GPA. I hope it isn't a learning curve issue.
These forums have helped tremendously. I had to get that off my chest. I am not getting any results.
I don't like playing the victim. You get a lot further focusing on discipline, individual responsibility, and hard work, but geesh, can I just see a glimpse of success.
I would love to see a replay pack of one successful player doing the same strategy every time. And then studying how he alters and adjusts it as the game goes on. You watch these pros and they do something different every game. That is why I have always liked empirehappy. Guy had a system and it didn't matter that you knew what he was doing. He imposed his will. His system was sound too. It could account for every possibility.
I also like IamJeffrey's style. He is the real deal. He is also very helpful.
I would like to see some replays of Polt dealing with all the crazy stuff that happens on the ladder.
If you really want to improve you need to stop watching day9 and stop focusing on this theoretical stuff and just PLAY the game instead. Playing is the only way of improving. If you need new input on builds start watching first person streams of terran players. Personally I found Bratok's stream very educational. Kas also streams alot and is worth watching.
On January 02 2013 04:04 Willzzz wrote: If he is on 1 base then don't worry about holding your natural. Put your bunkers on top of your main ramp.
Worked perfectly! scouted early roachwarren with no expansion, built 2 bunkers behind depots at ramp and started producing marauder asap and an CC behind my wall just to be safe. He failed, quit and didnt say Ggggggg Gggggggggggg, haha!
On January 02 2013 08:31 heyra wrote: Im a gold terran and i can never figure out when to stop producing scvs is their a specific number or is it dependant on the situation? Any advice? Thanks in advance :D
66 seems to be a golden number, I think under 70 for sure, about 3 bases saturated (16 on minerals in every base and 3 scv's in 6 gases)
On January 02 2013 08:31 heyra wrote: Im a gold terran and i can never figure out when to stop producing scvs is their a specific number or is it dependant on the situation? Any advice? Thanks in advance :D
66 seems to be a golden number, I think under 70 for sure, about 3 bases saturated (16 on minerals in every base and 3 scv's in 6 gases)
Yeah 66 is like the max you really need. You should decrease this number as the game goes on depending on how many orbitals you get.
EPT
