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On December 07 2012 00:38 FireFlyInTheSky wrote:Hi, glad to see there are such threads helping people  If I scout a protoss that has high nexus energy, gateway, core and a single gas, are these all the possible follow ups? (so far I've encountered these 5: a) Standard expand b) 4 gate c) 4 gate prism d) 3/4 gate zealot void ray e) Proxied early 2nd gateway Some questions regarding scouting and responses, I'm not too knowledgeable about protoss builds so I need some help here: 1) Is it safe to say that if I only see one pylon in his main after going an entire round, it is most likely going to be a proxy? (situations c, d, e) 2) If I see a third pylon go up (assuming he does not cancel), can I rule out the possibility of any one base play and know it's an expand build? 3) What should I do with my scouting SCV after 4:10, which is when the stalker pops up to deny scouting? 4) What are the optimal reponses to c), d) and e)? I've lost alot to c) and d) because I always guess that it's a standard 4 gate going to bust my ramp but in fact it is not. Thanks.
I will specifically address what to do with your scouting scv after you leave his base for the first time, and that will lead to answering most of your early game scouting questions. You should move your scv out quite a bit before the stalker comes out, something like 3:30. Basically you want to leave right after you can see if he's getting a 2nd gas on 1 base or not. The normal timing for this is when the core is building after the zealot. If no 2nd gas goes up the options are essentially a 4 gate or 1 gate nexus (he could be doing something tricky to hide it from you but don't worry about that yet). After checking for the 2nd gas, leave his base, and make sure nothing is following your scv. Now you'll want to hide your scv in his 3rd or somewhere else relatively close to his base, until about 4:50-4:55. At this point go into his natural and check for a nexus. If there is a nexus then ezpz normal game, if not he's allining you. Now oftentimes you can just run your scv up into his main as a lot of toss will send their stalker zealot across map to poke, deny scouting etc. This is where effectively hiding your scv is important.
Now if you do happen to get into his base after not seeing a nexus, the most important thing you MUST NOT DO is build any more additional addons on your barracks. You need to make sure you are always making marines out of every rax and not getting supply blocked. It is also ok to cut some scvs to make sure you can build depots marines and get up to ~ 3 bunkers without halting production. Also if he is doing a warp prism 4gate you can send some of your marines into your main to pick it off. Though if you do this you should keep at least 4 scvs on atuo repair around your bunker at the front, as the can just feint at the back with the prism and bust your front.
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On December 07 2012 17:30 darkphantom wrote:
What is current TvZ Standard macro that doesn't rely on banshees harass
You still get the reactor factory, but instead of going straight up to a starport you get a tech lab on your first rax and throw up 2 more, or go straight to a 3rd cc. Basically you just don't get the starport as early. I generally like to make a couple marauders out of my tech labbed barracks as these builds are weaker to the roach/bane allins than banshee builds.
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How do i deal with this? http://drop.sc/282513
Im really mad now ive lost over 10 games to same shit. Bane/ling/muta into infestor then gglords i have no idea what to do whenever i try to get to him at 10 min benchmark he has tons of banes and lings and i just get screwed over.
Please help
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TvP, how to deal with two base HT's?
I am a mid-high masters protoss player myself, and my go to PvT build is 2 base +1 armour chargelot templar into third base. I have like 80% win ratio with it.
Switched to terran a few weeks ago, and I just have no idea how to handle this build as a terran. Any one give me any tips on how to deal with HT chargelot after 1rax fe?
Thanks
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Every so often I try doing a CC first. However half the time, I can't seem to defend it against the Zealot-Stalker pressure when say it's a TvP matchup, which ultimately leads to a destroyed economy, setting me back in the later game, or I just GG outright. In fact, I find CC first to be very dangerous for me against early pushes by any race. I'm most comfortable doing CC first in TvZ because all Zerg wants is drones so I can generally get away with it unless they're doing a roach bane all in. The handful of Marines I got just doesn't seem to cut it? I put them together and I get hack and slashed by Zealot-Stalker in TvP. Pulling SCVs = GG economy.
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So I'm assuming your question is, is it possible to CC first against Protoss?
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On December 08 2012 07:08 kollin wrote:
So I'm assuming your question is, is it possible to CC first against Protoss?
No. It's how to defend CC first against any race that's putting on pressure. TvP pressure would be Zealot and Stalker. Zerg will be Zergling, or a few minutes later, the usual Roach Bane all in if they decide to. Terran... Well can be anything?
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On December 08 2012 07:42 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 07:08 kollin wrote:
So I'm assuming your question is, is it possible to CC first against Protoss? No. It's how to defend CC first against any race that's putting on pressure. TvP pressure would be Zealot and Stalker. Zerg will be Zergling, or a few minutes later, the usual Roach Bane all in if they decide to. Terran... Well can be anything?
You could always pull a BitByBit.
In all seriousness, I don't think so unless you go for gas. Protoss can kite your marines all the way across the map, and queens, lings, and spines are more than enough.
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On December 08 2012 07:42 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 07:08 kollin wrote:
So I'm assuming your question is, is it possible to CC first against Protoss? No. It's how to defend CC first against any race that's putting on pressure. TvP pressure would be Zealot and Stalker. Zerg will be Zergling, or a few minutes later, the usual Roach Bane all in if they decide to. Terran... Well can be anything?
Make a bunker?
14 cc 15 rax 16 rax scv to 19, double OC, 1 marine + bunker then #2 and 3 after. Pull 4-5 scvs and cycle them after hits with the zeal/stalker.
It's not that hard unless they like 10 gate. Most protoss want to cut the zeal and go nexus earlier if they can on scouted CC first.
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On December 08 2012 06:41 Westy wrote:
TvP, how to deal with two base HT's?
I am a mid-high masters protoss player myself, and my go to PvT build is 2 base +1 armour chargelot templar into third base. I have like 80% win ratio with it.
Switched to terran a few weeks ago, and I just have no idea how to handle this build as a terran. Any one give me any tips on how to deal with HT chargelot after 1rax fe?
Thanks
The best thing I can think of is to be greedy and take an early third and get ghosts as soon as you scout that then try to outmacro.
Or pull scvs and all in him before he has storms ready?
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On December 08 2012 04:28 all3z wrote:How do i deal with this? http://drop.sc/282513Im really mad now ive lost over 10 games to same shit. Bane/ling/muta into infestor then gglords i have no idea what to do whenever i try to get to him at 10 min benchmark he has tons of banes and lings and i just get screwed over. Please help
I'm also having a few problems with this. I feel my micro isn't good enough to withstand blings on my 10 min push, but even if I win the battle, lings are just so easily produced again, and run over my tanks.
You can easily save the remaining rines with your medivac, but by the time you've got up another decent force there is already a load more ling/blings and probably mutason their way as well, and he's taken his third.
Drop play seems to be useless when he can get his speedlings around so fast and once lair tech is in, cloakshees are useless!
Is multi-mass drop play the best option? really at a loss as to what to do!
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On December 08 2012 17:22 EscapePlan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 04:28 all3z wrote:How do i deal with this? http://drop.sc/282513Im really mad now ive lost over 10 games to same shit. Bane/ling/muta into infestor then gglords i have no idea what to do whenever i try to get to him at 10 min benchmark he has tons of banes and lings and i just get screwed over. Please help I'm also having a few problems with this. I feel my micro isn't good enough to withstand blings on my 10 min push, but even if I win the battle, lings are just so easily produced again, and run over my tanks. You can easily save the remaining rines with your medivac, but by the time you've got up another decent force there is already a load more ling/blings and probably mutason their way as well, and he's taken his third. Drop play seems to be useless when he can get his speedlings around so fast and once lair tech is in, cloakshees are useless! Is multi-mass drop play the best option? really at a loss as to what to do!
The answer is mech! Ever since i started playing mech in TvZ my winrate drastically increased, i open same helllion banshee, into double upgrades, 4 thors to prevent any mutas e stop some small roaches squads pushes and after that tanks. Use BF Hellions to harass.
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On December 08 2012 06:41 Westy wrote:
TvP, how to deal with two base HT's?
I am a mid-high masters protoss player myself, and my go to PvT build is 2 base +1 armour chargelot templar into third base. I have like 80% win ratio with it.
Switched to terran a few weeks ago, and I just have no idea how to handle this build as a terran. Any one give me any tips on how to deal with HT chargelot after 1rax fe?
Thanks
DeMusliM said on his stream once that if he scouts a 2base templar build that he doesn't try to attack head on. Poke around, bait some storms, but don't engage the army. You can do a regular 3rax medivac timing, just play conservatively until you can get ghosts off 3base.
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On December 08 2012 04:28 all3z wrote:How do i deal with this? http://drop.sc/282513Im really mad now ive lost over 10 games to same shit. Bane/ling/muta into infestor then gglords i have no idea what to do whenever i try to get to him at 10 min benchmark he has tons of banes and lings and i just get screwed over. Please help
http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-530/
Watch it and learn. I've been doing that in my recent TvZ games, just turtling up until my 2-2 is finished. Then I just rush in and kill everything in my path. It's basically a 3 base all in, attacking with 2-2 before the Zerg's hive units are out. I have to say, it's quite successful and it's part of the reason why I'm not scared about patchzerg anymore. At least not in my current level of play.
Of course, it's also very dangerous because if they go roach-bane all in, you're pretty much screwed.
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Nvm, just solved my own issue.
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Hi guys,
Does anyone have a link to a good guide/video about playing 11/11rax in TvZ - tried looking on TL and youtube but struggling to find anything. I've seen it done so many different ways so I am just wondering what is the most efficient. What are some good 1base allin follow-ups (I was thinking 2port cloakshees would be good, but idk).
Also damn ladder anxiety, just managed to get back to top 8 gold with 5/6 game win streak but too nervous to play..so did some campaign to kill time before NASL! 
Cheers guys
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On December 09 2012 04:35 Marathi wrote:Hi guys, Does anyone have a link to a good guide/video about playing 11/11rax in TvZ - tried looking on TL and youtube but struggling to find anything. I've seen it done so many different ways so I am just wondering what is the most efficient. What are some good 1base allin follow-ups (I was thinking 2port cloakshees would be good, but idk). Also damn ladder anxiety, just managed to get back to top 8 gold with 5/6 game win streak but too nervous to play..so did some campaign to kill time before NASL! Cheers guys
DeMuslim has a nasty 11/11 proxy so you could try his stream VODs. I think he almost always goes double CC as a transition though.
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Thanks Kasu didn't think of that and I was DeMu's stream a lot! I'll check his vods for the opener
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On December 08 2012 07:02 geokilla wrote:
Every so often I try doing a CC first. However half the time, I can't seem to defend it against the Zealot-Stalker pressure when say it's a TvP matchup, which ultimately leads to a destroyed economy, setting me back in the later game, or I just GG outright. In fact, I find CC first to be very dangerous for me against early pushes by any race. I'm most comfortable doing CC first in TvZ because all Zerg wants is drones so I can generally get away with it unless they're doing a roach bane all in. The handful of Marines I got just doesn't seem to cut it? I put them together and I get hack and slashed by Zealot-Stalker in TvP. Pulling SCVs = GG economy.
Try 2 rax immediately after with 2 bunkers following. You can transition to mech from there but it relys on them not scouting you before ur hellions are out. I've been going blue flame right after and lots of hellions. Problem is u have to do damage if they fast 3rd.
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can someone tell me how to remember how/when to save energy for scan?
I kept on mule-ing whenever I look back in my base because of my queen inject habit (my main was zerg) and whenever I can, I just keep muleing, the only time I can afford to scan is when I forgot to mule and have energy left over
The only scan I really do is the mid game scan for tech and also if I am engaging the army on cliff.
This problem is HUGE in TvZ because sometimes I just don't have energy to scan to kill off creeps fast enough with my push
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EPT
