EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 406
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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ThatNerdInTheChamber
6 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On December 03 2012 10:30 ThatNerdInTheChamber wrote: Should i stim the p of my marines or the p of my marauders to satisfie women ? Well that's a complex decision that can only be described to you by the lucky young lady that's going to engage in some fun happy time.. I saw Liquid'Sea do a blue flame opening a dozen games in a row a few weeks ago on ladder. Obviously he's on a different level, and isn't as relevant. He also beat naniwa with just hellions and a single banshee lol | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On December 03 2012 06:58 TheDwf wrote: BFH openings are rather shaky. Mvp was using them because he knew Life would never bother to make an early Roach Warren. It's still an standard build, routinely used against all zerg players. It's an important mech build to have in your pocket (which is how MVP used it). On December 03 2012 06:56 kollin wrote: Wasn't the 2 factory hellion build designed to specifically counter Life's style, making it a bit more mediocre against other, potentially roach based strategies? It's undoubtedly weaker against roach openings. MVP only did BFH 3 games out of 7, by the way - I'm not advocating using it every game. | ||
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HammerStarcraft
Canada37 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
On December 03 2012 13:23 Hammer77 wrote: Thoughts on researching +1 armour vs +1 attack for early game marauder vs roach? If you have to get only one, +1 attack, because it's also better for your marines. And blue-flame hellion openings are meant more to kill marines or other hellions in a straight-up fight, not SCVs. Sea does bf hellion openings when he goes mech, and because he's kind of quirky like that. | ||
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HammerStarcraft
Canada37 Posts
On December 03 2012 13:39 Whatson wrote: If you have to get only one, +1 attack, because it's also better for your marines. And blue-flame hellion openings are meant more to kill marines or other hellions in a straight-up fight, not SCVs. Sea does bf hellion openings when he goes mech, and because he's kind of quirky like that. Thanks brother, I was thinking +1 attack as well! | ||
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all3z
Sweden23 Posts
Replay for more in depth explaination: http://drop.sc/281168 Thanks! | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
I have been doing Mvp's mech build in TvZ and it ALWAYS feels like I am doing it wrong. You either have to cut a LOT of SCVs or things just don't line up quite right. I thought I just needed more practice for it to not feel so bumpy but I tried to do it in SC2planner.com and it just doesn't work out. If anyone (Master+) has replays they could share, that would be good... Secondly, how do I know if early roaches or early banes are coming? If I see gas before 4 minutes, something is coming, (usually, though one guy just got ling speed and then double expanded - WTF?) I have lost a few games over the weekend expecting one and getting a sim-city that would hold and they show up with the other... The problem is that you HAVE to decide whether to make hellions or not at 5:40ish or whether to get a techlab on your factory for a tank and keep making marines from the reactor, and I just don't see a way to know for sure... With roaches, I need bunker in front of CC/ramp, with banes, I need them behind (in my experience) to live. If you start 2 hellions at 5:40, they get to Zerg base well after it is too late to react. TLDR: Replay of Mvp mech build needed How to tell if Roach or Banes coming with 3:45 gas timing? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 04 2012 08:36 U_G_L_Y wrote: I have been doing Mvp's mech build in TvZ and it ALWAYS feels like I am doing it wrong. You either have to cut a LOT of SCVs or things just don't line up quite right. I thought I just needed more practice for it to not feel so bumpy but I tried to do it in SC2planner.com and it just doesn't work out. If anyone (Master+) has replays they could share, that would be good... Yes, the 1 rax expand dual gas before second Depot build is very tight on minerals so there are several slight cuts in the SCV production (or you have to slightly delay first units), especially if you SCV scout, but you can still reach 46-48 SCVs by the 10' mark. You can download replays from IEM S7 Cologne here, Mvp uses the build in some of them (e. g. Mvp vs Nerchio on CK if I remember correctly). On December 04 2012 08:36 U_G_L_Y wrote: Secondly, how do I know if early roaches or early banes are coming? If I see gas before 4 minutes, something is coming, (usually, though one guy just got ling speed and then double expanded - WTF?) I have lost a few games over the weekend expecting one and getting a sim-city that would hold and they show up with the other... You can't know for sure, but you don't care since you will not deviate from your build anyway (except you can get a fourth Marine as soon as possible if you scouted early gas). Gas doesn't necessarily mean agressive play, same as gasless doesn't necessarily mean passive play. Zergs can get Metabolic Boost early to defend / have some map presence / prevent you from building your third on its location, you see players like Leenock or Life do that even if they intend to get an early third. Your two first Hellions should scout whatever he's up to. On December 04 2012 08:36 U_G_L_Y wrote: The problem is that you HAVE to decide whether to make hellions or not at 5:40ish or whether to get a techlab on your factory for a tank and keep making marines from the reactor, and I just don't see a way to know for sure... Don't deviate from your build to get an early Tank. It will not even help against some of the agressive options at his disposal, and it's a sure way to make the Zerg player press his Drone button even harder knowing that no immediate pressure is coming in retaliation. On December 04 2012 08:36 U_G_L_Y wrote: With roaches, I need bunker in front of CC/ramp, with banes, I need them behind (in my experience) to live. If you start 2 hellions at 5:40, they get to Zerg base well after it is too late to react. No, get your Bunker in a corner not easily reachable, even against Roaches because (a) Speedlings can come along and (b) it will hinder their movement / force them to approach. On maps in which it's not possible (like Antiga), make it adjacent to your CC. | ||
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MannyPacquiao
Sweden7 Posts
So what to do against mass lings in early mid game - make more factories? - make normal amount of hellions and defend your 3rd? - play normal and never get surrounded by lings? =) | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
The more advice I get the more I feel like there is literally no safe opening at my level against Zerg Why would Zerg NOT open roaches? With the "standard" Terran build, it is 8 roaches vs 3 marines and 2 hellions. How could that POSSIBLY not be cost efficient for Zerg on any normal sized map? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 04 2012 22:25 MannyPacquiao wrote: In TvZ i go for the standard 1 rax expo into reactor hellion and banshee into 2 ebays and 4 more raxes. Im having difficulties deciding when to stop hellion production and beginning tank production. If the zerg turtles with spine crawlers and queens I just go for 6 to stop creep spread. But sometimes the z will mass speedlings and go for the surround, I then feel I have to keep up hellion production and so we trade hellions for zergling for some time. This delays my tanks, so when the ling baneling muta attack comes at my 3rd I often dont have the tanks to deal with it. So what to do against mass lings in early mid game - make more factories? - make normal amount of hellions and defend your 3rd? - play normal and never get surrounded by lings? =) You can try to get 2 more Hellions (8 total), it's harder for 25-30 Speedlings to overwhelm them. Otherwise, yes, don't let them be surrounded. On December 04 2012 23:14 U_G_L_Y wrote: See the last post on page 401. If I put my bunker where Mr Llama did, roaches busting my wall are OUT OF RANGE. If I make it directly behind the ramp, the bunker doesn't protect my workers at all unless I gather them on the bunker. If it is a ling/bane bust, I lose all my workers doing this. Bunker like this. If Baneling bust he has to waste some Banelings on Depots to reach the Bunker, if Roaches he has to come close. You will lose ~10 SCVs to 7+ Roach pressure. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
Zerg can take 2 more bases behind it or make 20 more roaches or go 2 base muta , I can't know until the first 8 roaches are killed by my first banshee. I am still not seeing a downside for Zerg. If they did the ling bane bust, banshees are actually countered by zerglings. He can afford to make lings and camp them until I have 10 hellions to clean them up because banshees kill zerglings so slowly, he can just hit 4SDDDDDDDDDDDD for the next 5 minutes to recover from the "all in" while I, a mech player, am on 2 gas and 8 mineral patches until... he chooses to allow me to expand again. By this time there is usually an overlord at my third shitting purple and all I have are hellions and banshees. Now what? Does anybody have a replay of them winning against a non-lobotomized Zerg with mech after a 7ish roach or bane bust? | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 05 2012 01:18 U_G_L_Y wrote: So, if you put your bunker there and lose 10 SCVs and the roaches camp and deny you from mining until your banshee kills all of them, you are basically 1 base until 10 minutes with a vey modest zerg investment... This is not what happens. Either he tries to attack the Bunker and kills repairing SCVs, losing Roaches in the process, or he camps near your mineral line, in which case you just retreat your SCVs (thus not losing any) and rally elsewhere while your Banshee clears Roaches. You have possibilities to come out ahead with (a) a Hellion counter [not possible against all Roach pressure builds, but against some you have time to attack with 4 Hellions before/while he reaches your natural] or (b) a Hellion/Banshee counter-attack after the attack is cleared, taking advantage of his lower Queen count (and possible lack of Zergling speed depending on his build). Which is why retaining your Hellions is crucial. On December 05 2012 01:21 ref4 wrote: Do you still do reactor hellion FE into 10-11 minute timing push, fall back & macro then push out later? This build is obsolete since Queens are range 5. CC first or 1 rax expand → Hellion/Banshee with a fast third are the new standard builds. You will be at a disadvantage even with the most brutal 2-bases timings against a Zerg who properly scouts and reacts. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
1) create a Wall with CC and Rax at the highground 2) build CC at the lowground minerals and throw down the bunker before the factory 3) build CC at the lowground minerals and throw down the bunker after the factory Whats in your opinion the best way to execute it? | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On December 05 2012 05:56 saaaa wrote: After watching the IPL 5 i recognize that there are exist 3 different types of 1st CC builds and how to execute them. 1) create a Wall with CC and Rax at the highground 2) build CC at the lowground minerals and throw down the bunker before the factory 3) build CC at the lowground minerals and throw down the bunker after the factory Whats in your opinion the best way to execute it? Well obviously it depends on map and metagame. If you're playing on Metropolis and a lot of Zerg's are playing quite greedily at the time, then sure go for the bunker after factory. You could even go cc at low ground gas, rax, for a super fast factory. However if you're on a map like Ohana, then I generally prefer CC and Rax at high ground because there is the chance that you get 10 or 11 pooled Life style. | ||
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-NerdCrusher
16 Posts
http://drop.sc/281802 | ||
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