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The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 405
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
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FeyverN
United States104 Posts
On December 02 2012 01:25 Masq wrote: I decided to casually try playing again, and I was wondering if there are updated compilation of build orders anywhere? Specifically I'm looking for a TvZ mech opening with timings/transitions to mess around with. Thanks As a Zerg player, I commonly see a CC first opening, along with double factory. One has reactor, the other has a tech lab researching blue flame. You keep making Hellions and move out when Blue Flame completes. Somewhere in there where you're making Hellions, you should get excess minerals. Take a third with that. It may seem greedy against, say, roach all-ins, but it is really hard to go Mech without cutting corners in the early game. EDIT: Hang on, there's a VOD somewhere of a pro doing this, sec. EDIT: Can't find it, but I remember it was VortiX vs LucifroN. | ||
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ETisME
12251 Posts
However I lost because he had storm and colossus and I was too marine heavy and just die to a straight up counter attack. So my question is, how heavy marauders I should be in my uni composition, given I have the resources to afford it. Is marauders just a better choice than marines overall? Without much marines, would I still have good dps against toss army? | ||
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TempestMaker
Canada37 Posts
On December 02 2012 01:25 Masq wrote: I decided to casually try playing again, and I was wondering if there are updated compilation of build orders anywhere? Specifically I'm looking for a TvZ mech opening with timings/transitions to mess around with. Thanks Check out the MVP mech build in liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Portal:Terran_Strategy | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
In my opinion the Hellion+Marine Drop is way more powerful and can straight up win or do so significant damage that you can just overrunl him with your 2nd attack because he suffered economicwise. You can even hold a Banshee on your own with that. Maybe you guys can help me to understand why pro's do it all the time. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On December 03 2012 01:11 saaaa wrote: Whats the reason for most pro's in 90 % of all gas first to go into Fast Cloak Banshee? I think you normally always scout gas first and expect banshee play anyway and it's get easy denied with Tank+Marine+Viking and then Raven. Your Turrets can be done in time too. I can go No Gas Fe and hold it really easy and i just don't understand why all pro's went for Banshee. Are they so comfortable with their Banshee micro and hope that their opponent missmicro? In my opinion the Hellion+Marine Drop is way more powerful and can straight up win or do so significant damage that you can just overrunl him with your 2nd attack because he suffered economicwise. You can even hold a Banshee on your own with that. Maybe you guys can help me to understand why pro's do it all the time. Gas first banshee pops well before a raven or a viking would be out by any standard 13 gas, or 1 rax FE build. It's at your base by the time that is all made. They can scout 1 rax Fe and get cloak, or go no cloak and FE at 5:40 ish after the banshee starts and the banshee keeps you pinned enough for them to be safe with a tank transition. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On December 03 2012 01:21 iAmJeffReY wrote: Gas first banshee pops well before a raven or a viking would be out by any standard 13 gas, or 1 rax FE build. It's at your base by the time that is all made. They can scout 1 rax Fe and get cloak, or go no cloak and FE at 5:40 ish after the banshee starts and the banshee keeps you pinned enough for them to be safe with a tank transition. Yes well before a raven but i can get my viking in time and then after the viking i can produce my raven and i'm quite ok. but the other aspects are right these are maybe the reason. | ||
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enigmatik
United States86 Posts
On December 03 2012 01:57 saaaa wrote: Yes well before a raven but i can get my viking in time and then after the viking i can produce my raven and i'm quite ok. but the other aspects are right these are maybe the reason. There's also a number of pro gamers that won't scout until the scan at 6:30 too | ||
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Iduakil
Poland23 Posts
Well really i know this will get me banned but for the mother fucking good all mighty who the fuck came up with the concept of warping and larva incjets ... how the fuck terran that hadnt changed form sc1 except mules can overcome that mechanics, you loose any bigger engagement and it`s a miracle to get back up, zerglings will overswarm you, endless warpins will hit you to the ground... less and less terrans are in tourneys ... but what you do dear Blizzars in your neverending wisdom ??? to mentioned to all above... what you do??? YOU GIVE SEEKER MISSLE FOR FREE!!!!!! LIKE WHAAT THE FUCKING HELL!!!!!! Thats your game desing balance whay of saying - Shut the fuck up and let the others play. I`m done, just deleted Sc2 and Sc1, I`m not gona buy any other product from Blizzard (luckily I waited till post launch reviews came for Diablo 3 ... and hell I hit a jackpot with that!!) Seriously, as company your sinking more ad more and the bottom of ignorance and incomptence. (Sorry for swearing and bad grammar, I just had to put ot the steam of rage, maybe this should hit the Blizz forums bot I dont care, as much I love this community and Team Liquid ((GOGOGO MaNa and Nerchio!!!!!)) I can`t keep go on as a active player. Farewell Starcraft PS. NW POWER KURWO!!!! | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
also maybe you are playing against players with poor banshee micro, its not a mis-micro about hoping the non-banshee player mis-micros, it's trust in their own micro as if both players micro perfectly the banshee will not die until vikings or stim are done. and for example if they want to do some kind of early drop off of one base by going banshees you delay this timing or do damage depending on whether or not he goes medivac before viking, plus banshees can be very useful in these early game fights if micro-ed correctly not to mention personally if i am going mech my banshees usefulness extends throughout the game as i can use them to help break the contains of a bio-tank player by sniping his siege tanks along with my air supremacy. thats just my personal opinion. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I was playing a 1rax-FE style vs Z and P, but I am not good enough to be successful in the late game vs either of those races and was having good success with my fast cloakshee into 1/1/1 in TvT. So I decided recently to start 1base all-inning all my matchups, continuing with same build in TvT, and going for 3hellion drop > 1/1/1 in TvP, and 3tank push with marines and SCVs vs Z. I feel really guilty for this all-in/cheesy play, but I don't get a lot of time to play in the week, can maybe manage 1-3 games on a couple of nights, and then some weekends I can get like a good day of playing in. So I find it very irritating if I am going for these passive style matchups vs Z and P that I originally did and losing in the late game a lot of the time. So I am kind've in a love/hate relationship with both styles - I like the fast wins/losses in 1base style, but I feel cheesy playing it, but I can get more games done, which will help me improve. I don't like playing these long ass games to just lose vs deathballs in Z and P MU, but when I do win I feel more elated and it is more deserved. My 1base games went very well at first, but today I ended up going like 1-5 which was annoying, I know I made a few mistakes in a couple of games with supply blocks, etc. Bad proxy building positioning. But it's early days so I should be able to iron those creases out. I just feel like I want to improve as my goal is to reach diamond/masters before HotS (gold atm) and I feel like the learning curve for me to improve in long based games is to steep for me to reach that goal in time, I don't think I am good enough at multitasking to deal with deathballs. So I think it would be easier for me to reach that level with 1base play, faster games, less things to worry about, etc. But it feels so damn cheesy lol TT Has anyone else experienced something similar? Struggling with passive style and moving over to more aggressive? People who are strapped for time so choose aggressive builds for more games? TLDR - gold player looking to improve, but struggling playing passive/macro games, trying 1base allin style but finding it cheesy and also difficult... | ||
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zeh_ripper
Norway4 Posts
Im struggling alot these days in TvP and TvZ. Especially in the late game vs P, my ghost control is absolutely rubbish and I seem to choose the worst time to engage my enemy every single time.. Also I cant seem to put any pressure onto them, I usually go with the stim, shield +1 timing with medivacs to put pressure, but it doesnt seem to work so good for me. I wonder if any1 have a nice build that puts pressure on my opponent? that can punish him hard. the 1rax FE into 5 rax was good for a while, but now they mass sentry early game, so it doesnt work that well.. I could also use some good 1base allins, 2base timings in both MU. Diamond player | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On December 03 2012 03:57 Marathi wrote: guys I am feeling very torn with this game atm + Show Spoiler + I was playing a 1rax-FE style vs Z and P, but I am not good enough to be successful in the late game vs either of those races and was having good success with my fast cloakshee into 1/1/1 in TvT. So I decided recently to start 1base all-inning all my matchups, continuing with same build in TvT, and going for 3hellion drop > 1/1/1 in TvP, and 3tank push with marines and SCVs vs Z. I feel really guilty for this all-in/cheesy play, but I don't get a lot of time to play in the week, can maybe manage 1-3 games on a couple of nights, and then some weekends I can get like a good day of playing in. So I find it very irritating if I am going for these passive style matchups vs Z and P that I originally did and losing in the late game a lot of the time. So I am kind've in a love/hate relationship with both styles - I like the fast wins/losses in 1base style, but I feel cheesy playing it, but I can get more games done, which will help me improve. I don't like playing these long ass games to just lose vs deathballs in Z and P MU, but when I do win I feel more elated and it is more deserved. My 1base games went very well at first, but today I ended up going like 1-5 which was annoying, I know I made a few mistakes in a couple of games with supply blocks, etc. Bad proxy building positioning. But it's early days so I should be able to iron those creases out. I just feel like I want to improve as my goal is to reach diamond/masters before HotS (gold atm) and I feel like the learning curve for me to improve in long based games is to steep for me to reach that goal in time, I don't think I am good enough at multitasking to deal with deathballs. So I think it would be easier for me to reach that level with 1base play, faster games, less things to worry about, etc. But it feels so damn cheesy lol TT Has anyone else experienced something similar? Struggling with passive style and moving over to more aggressive? People who are strapped for time so choose aggressive builds for more games? TLDR - gold player looking to improve, but struggling playing passive/macro games, trying 1base allin style but finding it cheesy and also difficult... Unfortunately, if you want to improve your mid/late game, you're just going to have to take your lumps. No other way around it. But why are you playing passive? Even if you're doing 1 rax fe, you should be pushing out at 10 min while taking a third/harassing. IMO, passivity is recipe for disaster. From a fellow Gold player struggling trying to develop the ability to macro and harass at the same time | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
gas first can easily be an early blue flame hellion drop or some other builds. No, no no. It's never an opening used at all if you gas first blue flame, you're wasting the gas first advantage. Blue flame isn't as good as it was. 3 hellions 1 shot drones/probes. 3 blue flame hellions 1 shot drones/probes. It doesn't help, at all, until +1 mech. Keep it red flame, and get a banshee out earlier, or a medic and drop them at like 6 min 3 hellion drop. Yes well before a raven but i can get my viking in time and then after the viking i can produce my raven and i'm quite ok. but the other aspects are right these are maybe the reason. No, the viking will not be out in time. Especially if you 1 rax FE into 1-1-1, you won't have a viking ready when the banshee is already in your base. It takes quite a few shots for a lone viking to drop a banshee. The banshee can easily pay for itself, and cancel cloak if need be. otherwise keep it, and all your gas is tied up in raven + banshees, and not siege, stim, shields, +1/+1 etc. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On December 03 2012 05:56 awwnuts07 wrote: Unfortunately, if you want to improve your mid/late game, you're just going to have to take your lumps. No other way around it. But why are you playing passive? Even if you're doing 1 rax fe, you should be pushing out at 10 min while taking a third/harassing. IMO, passivity is recipe for disaster. From a fellow Gold player struggling trying to develop the ability to macro and harass at the same time Well not necessarily passive, but more long term minded. In TvP I used to play 1rax FE into 3rax medivacs, with 10min push which would normally get deflected then overran and then it would go into lategame 200v200 battles where I would get smashed. In TvZ I used to play an aggressive drop style with just marines and medivacs, but with the rise of infestor use I've been having less and less success with this. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 02 2012 01:25 Masq wrote: I decided to casually try playing again, and I was wondering if there are updated compilation of build orders anywhere? Specifically I'm looking for a TvZ mech opening with timings/transitions to mess around with. Thanks 1 rax expand Dual gas Second Depot Factory as soon as you have 100 gas Reactor on Barracks with next 50 gas Swap Factory with Barracks → produce Hellions Starport once Factory is complete Tech Lab on Barracks Swap Starport with Barracks → Cloak and Banshees CC Dual Armory Factory #2 and #3 On December 02 2012 11:50 ETisME wrote: recently i have lost a TvP where I had 4 mining bases and containing him on 3 mining bases, small upgrade advantage etc. However I lost because he had storm and colossus and I was too marine heavy and just die to a straight up counter attack. From your description, I'm unsure your Marine-heavy composition was the problem. Maybe you had not enough Ghosts (or you didn't EMP Templars), maybe you had not enough Vikings, maybe you didn't micro well. Without a replay it's hard to tell. Marauders are awful against mass Zealots (unless you have a high Ghost count along), so having many Marines is often necessary against common Zealots-heavy Protoss armies. On December 03 2012 01:11 saaaa wrote: Whats the reason for most pro's in 90 % of all gas first to go into Fast Cloak Banshee? I think you normally always scout gas first and expect banshee play anyway No, gas first can also mean Marine/Hellion elevator, Reactor Hellions with a Medivac to drop them or the uncommon BFH opening. The answers are different for each opening (including Banshee without Cloak). On December 03 2012 06:05 iAmJeffReY wrote: No, no no. It's never an opening used at all if you gas first blue flame, you're wasting the gas first advantage. Blue flame isn't as good as it was. 3 hellions 1 shot drones/probes. 3 blue flame hellions 1 shot drones/probes. It doesn't help, at all The BFH opening does exist, and it does help to have Blue Flame in some Hellions vs workers scenarii because we're talking about TvT. SCVs have 45 hit points, so they don't die in one shot to 3 Hellions (14x3 = 42) but fall to the same number of BFH (19x3 = 57). You're right about BFH openings being nearly extinct, though; ForGG is the only pro player I know who uses them consistently. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On December 02 2012 01:25 Masq wrote: I decided to casually try playing again, and I was wondering if there are updated compilation of build orders anywhere? Specifically I'm looking for a TvZ mech opening with timings/transitions to mess around with. Thanks Last season's GSL finals between MVP and Life is probably the best series to watch, MVP goes mech all 7 games (similar builds with different variations), and so far, has been the only Terran to really scratch Life's ZvT. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On December 03 2012 06:49 iEchoic wrote: Last season's GSL finals between MVP and Life is probably the best series to watch, MVP goes mech all 7 games (similar builds with different variations), and so far, has been the only Terran to really scratch Life's ZvT. Wasn't the 2 factory hellion build designed to specifically counter Life's style, making it a bit more mediocre against other, potentially roach based strategies? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 03 2012 06:49 iEchoic wrote: Last season's GSL finals between MVP and Life is probably the best series to watch, MVP goes mech all 7 games (similar builds with different variations), and so far, has been the only Terran to really scratch Life's ZvT. BFH openings are rather shaky. Mvp was using them because he knew Life would never bother to make an early Roach Warren. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
Thank you | ||
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