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On October 11 2012 00:44 ETisME wrote:
How do you practice against storm dodge?
I can do baneling split ok-ish but storm dodge is kinda impossible, I simply don't know how to dodge them since the cast time is instant.
also how do you engage a templar colossus army?
assuming his templars are a bit too far behind, do you stim in to pick off some units or hope your ghosts land some emps and then engage?
While storm is instant in theory it isn't really in practice. Usually a templar casts a storm from out of range so has to move forward before it casts, this introduces a delay. A templar that starts in storm range is going to be at a strong risk of snipe/EMP.
You should be able to anticipate storms as you see the templar moving towards your army.
It is much harder when you are trying to advance into templar, you shouldn't just charge your whole army in. Either send your ghosts slightly ahead, or a small screening force that won't take too much damage from storm.
Also it's very hard if they have flanking templar, or perhaps templar in warp prisms. Not to mention the problems when they have colossus as well.
Trying to split up the protoss deathball, or forcing a fight at a favourable location can help greatly.
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I base traded a Protoss last night who did a 6 or 7 gate blink timing. I killed all buildings but 2 pylons and I had 3 CCs alive, but he had like 25 stalkers. It was a custom game so I just left but for future reference, what maps have a void that cant be hit by ground if I need to force a draw? It didn't seem like there was one on Cloud Kingdom... If it does, where is it?
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So I recently got over my ladder anxiety but when i returned i found that i was doing well in TvP but in TvZ my mech play has been getting stuffed by ultralisks and infestors. I am a diamond player and im wondering which maps are good for mech and what are some good "standard" build orders for marine/tank or bio play? Also a terran mech or bio build would also be great.
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Does anyone have any good strategies against colossus backed by stalkers and zealots? I normally go marine, marauder, medivacs with some vikings, but it doesnt seem to have any effect; my army gets destroyed in seconds, while I hardly damage the enemies. Am I using an ineffective build, or am I not microing properly?
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On October 11 2012 04:20 Ace SpadeZ wrote:
Does anyone have any good strategies against colossus backed by stalkers and zealots? I normally go marine, marauder, medivacs with some vikings, but it doesnt seem to have any effect; my army gets destroyed in seconds, while I hardly damage the enemies. Am I using an ineffective build, or am I not microing properly?
MMM + Vikings + Upgrades is the right composition but the problem is that overall it's much easier to control the Protoss army which means two players of roughly equal skill level the Protoss will have an advantage. It takes a loot of good micro and great positioning to beat the Protoss army and in the Gold<->Diamond skill range most Terrans (including my self) simply aren't good enough to handle the 'delicate' Terran army well enough to come out on top.
Seems this concept remains true until you start getting into higher levels of Master where Terrans are skilled enough to maintain proper army control and positioning.
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On October 11 2012 05:07 AveiMil wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:20 Ace SpadeZ wrote:
Does anyone have any good strategies against colossus backed by stalkers and zealots? I normally go marine, marauder, medivacs with some vikings, but it doesnt seem to have any effect; my army gets destroyed in seconds, while I hardly damage the enemies. Am I using an ineffective build, or am I not microing properly? MMM + Vikings + Upgrades is the right composition but the problem is that overall it's much easier to control the Protoss army which means two players of roughly equal skill level the Protoss will have an advantage. It takes a loot of good micro and great positioning to beat the Protoss army and in the Gold<->Diamond skill range most Terrans (including my self) simply aren't good enough to handle the 'delicate' Terran army well enough to come out on top. Seems this concept remains true until you start getting into higher levels of Master where Terrans are skilled enough to maintain proper army control and positioning.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing myself, but wanted to check in case I was doing something wrong. Its a bit unfair since zealots soak up all the damage while the colossus cut marines to ribbons. Hopefully Blizzard will realise soon and nerf some of those units. Guess Ill have to struggle on until then  . Thanks for clearing that up either way  .
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Nerfs would just throw the game out of balance at higher levels so there's only one thing you should do really: get better.
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On October 11 2012 05:31 Ace SpadeZ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 11 2012 05:07 AveiMil wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:20 Ace SpadeZ wrote:
Does anyone have any good strategies against colossus backed by stalkers and zealots? I normally go marine, marauder, medivacs with some vikings, but it doesnt seem to have any effect; my army gets destroyed in seconds, while I hardly damage the enemies. Am I using an ineffective build, or am I not microing properly? MMM + Vikings + Upgrades is the right composition but the problem is that overall it's much easier to control the Protoss army which means two players of roughly equal skill level the Protoss will have an advantage. It takes a loot of good micro and great positioning to beat the Protoss army and in the Gold<->Diamond skill range most Terrans (including my self) simply aren't good enough to handle the 'delicate' Terran army well enough to come out on top. Seems this concept remains true until you start getting into higher levels of Master where Terrans are skilled enough to maintain proper army control and positioning. Yeah I was thinking the same thing myself, but wanted to check in case I was doing something wrong. Its a bit unfair since zealots soak up all the damage while the colossus cut marines to ribbons. Hopefully Blizzard will realise soon and nerf some of those units. Guess Ill have to struggle on until then . Thanks for clearing that up either way .
You need to keep your army out of range of the colossus by shooting and scooting back, whilst your vikings pick his colossus off, once you have kite raped the zealots and his colossus have been whittled down by your vikings, or completely destroyed (depending on what he does with his stalkers) then you can just a-move in and rape his stalkers. This is why you get conc shell in TvP.
It's by no means easy, but that is why you have to look at the problem in a different way. Instead of asking why am I losing vs Protoss Deathball? Ask yourself why are you trading with protoss deathball? Why did I let him get a deathball in the first place? Why don't I do a small drop to distract him? etc, etc :x
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I've been doing a little bit of experimenting in TvT with upgrades and I'd like to know what would be the best upgrade to get for infantry, barring out whether or not you go double upgrades for obvious reasons.
I've recently tried it out in the unit tester, and it seems that marines with +1 armor usually defeat marines with +1 attack cost effciently, it was 20vs20 with 2 medivac support for each and I ran it multiple times with combat shield, stim, and with neither to make sure it wasn't just a concave problem. It worked the same for +2 armor and weapons, armor seem to win each time, though the efficiency seemed to fall, after 0-3 vs 3-0, it seems attack began to win, however, once I made it 3-1 vs 1-3, Armor automatically began winning again.
I think this has to do with the fact that there's no range advantage for TvT, since you're either always out ranged or equal, so I think it may increase survivability if you go armor, but I'd like other opinions as I don't really trust unit tester to give me a positive outcome.
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Gold level Terran here with a question. Lately, in TvT, I've been wanting to go into 1-1-1 after 1 rax FE but I'm unsure of when to start my add-ons for rax. Do I start them as soon as the Rax are done building?
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That depends on what you want to do with the 1-1-1, if you want to do a Helion drop, I'd say you build the factory first, then start the reactor as soon as you have the gas for it. then you can start the Starport and add your tech lab on the racks as it's building and start combat shield and continue from there, just swap the factory and the port when it's finished or do whatever. The greatest thing about the 1-1-1 is it givs you a variety of options to work with, you just have to work the add ons right in which case, just try to line up the construction of the add on and the construction of the building so you can utilize the swap.
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i hope ver doesnt mind me putting in my input and answering questions, im a gm lvl terran.
On October 12 2012 10:45 awwnuts07 wrote:
Gold level Terran here with a question. Lately, in TvT, I've been wanting to go into 1-1-1 after 1 rax FE but I'm unsure of when to start my add-ons for rax. Do I start them as soon as the Rax are done building?
Alot of builds change dependinging on scouting information and how much pressure the player is under, as a general rule of thumb, throw down double gas after cc, and after 3 marines get a reactor whilst completing the 1-1-1, how ever you wont be able to support tank production and cloak banshee and building reactors off of two gas in that early timing so thats where decisions are made.
as soon as you have enough money whilst continually producing tanks, throw down more raxes, with the 2nd rax having a tech lab and thats when you start your fundamental upgrades.
The reason you dont get tech lab first is that you need that early marine production (2 at a time) too hold off any early pressure.
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On October 09 2012 18:56 heha wrote:Hi guys, looking for some TvP help. I like to play 3 CCs (either off CC first or 1 rax CC) and frequently die to 6/7/8 gate attacks after 1 gate FEs. At times even when I scout it and get 4 bunkers up, I'll still die. I'm afraid I have no replay; can anyone who is experienced at holding off midgame all-ins with super greedy econ please contribute? Also, I'm dying alot to 3/4 gate blink-stalker robo all-ins. I've tried lifting back into the main, bunkering up ramp, turreting against obs, but normally I still die. When I don't see the nexus I won't be 3 CCing, so my add-ons wll be reactor tech lab tech lab normally, with a priority on marine production. Any tips? <3 I'm afraid no replays But if someone could provide a widely-agreed upon theoretical solution I would be happy as well -Mid/High Masters
when taeja opens cloacked banshee and it gets scouted he knows he is vunerable to those gate way all ins, so he techs to siege tanks and gets three whilst turtling and then switches over to a more standard style, he knows he cant move out till he is maxed because hes behind in eco all game and the only time this cancels out is when he is maxed (protoss cant deny any further bases from taeja unless he wants to engage).
Although this is just another option you can consider, however if you want to stick with trying to hold with bio. I try to have early map control with 6 marines, i look for pylons, i deny scouting, i deny probes, as soon as i know a 6 gate is coming (high sentry count, scan, probe being escorted) i go up to three bunkers and create a sim city with depots in front, i usually start this depot wall before i even find out if it is a 6 gate so i have time to fully complete.
a few quick tips though.
-Maruaders in bunkers ALWAYS, for the range, and when bunkers get destoryed your next line of defence is the tankiness of marauders
-if depot wall is not present put scvs in front of the bunkers, if he ff's he ff's his zealots from attacking.
- dont forget macro
-try and snipe the sentry who is using guardian shield (dont commit to heavily for this though as there is a balance of dps [commit to heavily and your marines are never firing])
Blink all in.
- abandon nat
-2 tech labs and 1 reactor,
-get the tech lab researching stim tucked away
-the last part comes down to practise, if i feel like i can have a beneficial engagement is wait for the second he blinks up and engage with scvs and my full army, he cant blink micro because it is on cooldown. This is all down through 'feel'
how ever
when i play on mas like antiga the rax i know that will be researching stim is in a very safe location so the add on cant be sniped.
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On October 12 2012 12:09 Billymtb wrote:i hope ver doesnt mind me putting in my input and answering questions, im a gm lvl terran. Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 10:45 awwnuts07 wrote:
Gold level Terran here with a question. Lately, in TvT, I've been wanting to go into 1-1-1 after 1 rax FE but I'm unsure of when to start my add-ons for rax. Do I start them as soon as the Rax are done building?
Alot of builds change dependinging on scouting information and how much pressure the player is under, as a general rule of thumb, throw down double gas after cc, and after 3 marines get a reactor whilst completing the 1-1-1, how ever you wont be able to support tank production and cloak banshee and building reactors off of two gas in that early timing so thats where decisions are made. as soon as you have enough money whilst continually producing tanks, throw down more raxes, with the 2nd rax having a tech lab and thats when you start your fundamental upgrades. The reason you dont get tech lab first is that you need that early marine production (2 at a time) too hold off any early pressure.
Can 1 rax fe into 1-1-1 fend off a 1 base 1-1-1?
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On October 12 2012 17:13 awwnuts07 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 12:09 Billymtb wrote:i hope ver doesnt mind me putting in my input and answering questions, im a gm lvl terran. On October 12 2012 10:45 awwnuts07 wrote:
Gold level Terran here with a question. Lately, in TvT, I've been wanting to go into 1-1-1 after 1 rax FE but I'm unsure of when to start my add-ons for rax. Do I start them as soon as the Rax are done building?
Alot of builds change dependinging on scouting information and how much pressure the player is under, as a general rule of thumb, throw down double gas after cc, and after 3 marines get a reactor whilst completing the 1-1-1, how ever you wont be able to support tank production and cloak banshee and building reactors off of two gas in that early timing so thats where decisions are made. as soon as you have enough money whilst continually producing tanks, throw down more raxes, with the 2nd rax having a tech lab and thats when you start your fundamental upgrades. The reason you dont get tech lab first is that you need that early marine production (2 at a time) too hold off any early pressure. Can 1 rax fe into 1-1-1 fend off a 1 base 1-1-1?
Yes.
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Hello everybody,
Well, I play SC2 since more than 2 year, finaly gold in EU since only 1 week after 6 seasons as silver.
Nothing to say about TvT and TvP, but hey TvZ I'm just losing every f***ing game I play.
I have 40 APM and extremely poor multitasking, and so the usual helion/banshee seems not made for me.
It's ok for the first minutes, but after :
- I lose my helions in lings surround while I'm macroing, so have no more map control and die later on baneling bust / mass roach / fast BL / whatever,
- I'm so focused on keeping my helions alive that I don't macro and die later on mass roach / mass muta / ultra+infestors+lings / whatever...
So, I'm searching for something more "simple" for me to start the game.
99% of gold Z now go on hatch before pool, sometime 3rd hatch after pool but before gaz, and ther must be a way to punish this !!!
Maybe marauder+helion push can be an answer, but I'm open-minded to any advice.
I never know if I must go bio or mech, wich upgrade must be made first, etc... So I do a little bit of everything - with no good result. :/
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On October 12 2012 18:30 dchiesa wrote:Hello everybody, Well, I play SC2 since more than 2 year, finaly gold in EU since only 1 week after 6 seasons as silver. Nothing to say about TvT and TvP, but hey TvZ I'm just losing every f***ing game I play. I have 40 APM and extremely poor multitasking, and so the usual helion/banshee seems not made for me. It's ok for the first minutes, but after : - I lose my helions in lings surround while I'm macroing, so have no more map control and die later on baneling bust / mass roach / fast BL / whatever, - I'm so focused on keeping my helions alive that I don't macro and die later on mass roach / mass muta / ultra+infestors+lings / whatever... So, I'm searching for something more "simple" for me to start the game. 99% of gold Z now go on hatch before pool, sometime 3rd hatch after pool but before gaz, and ther must be a way to punish this !!! Maybe marauder+helion push can be an answer, but I'm open-minded to any advice. I never know if I must go bio or mech, wich upgrade must be made first, etc... So I do a little bit of everything - with no good result. :/
your thinking in a very negative way, you say your multitasking and apm are far from good. hellion banshee is probably the best tvz build order currently that doesn't rely on gimmicks, yes, it stretches your apm abilities but it also stretches the zergs trying to defend it. Instead of looking for another build order (which im not saying is completely wrong but your reason for it is far from ideal) why dont you say to yourself "ok, im going to use this build order as a way to increase my multitasking abilities".
I'll try to put in my mindset when im playing hellion banshee, im not saying im a good player but i am saying i can execute it solidly against other gm level players.
-I've played the build order so often, it requires alot less thinking on my part timings pop up in my mind and i know i need to do these due to repetition and muscle memory (these things come from practise)
- 'focusing on macro' should not be time consuming, put it this way, always focus on your hellions until something needs to be done back at home then repeat. A fast player cant always focus on macro because there is not enough 'stuff' that needs doing on two base. But he can always utilise focusing on hellions.
e.g. im poking with hellions, i F1 back to my base and see that i need my gases are about to complete, i go back to hellions, 1 second later i go back and put guys in gas, back to hellions, i glance at my minerals whilst on hellions and notice my money is climbing, f1 i go and build rax as fast as possible, go back to hellions, i see ebays have completed, f1 start upgrades, go back to hellions.
The reason you can focus on macro solely is probably due to the fact that your not fast enough.
There are two reasons why apm can be low.
1). not fast enough (this can be increased through practise and mouse precision games or better hotkey setups)
2). not knowing what needs to be done (this comes through experience and practise of course).
punishing the zerg greediness is not something that is done easy, try and focus the 3rd hatch with hellions and banshees but never commit to heavily, i mean your going 3cc, your not far behind the zerg.
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Well, the feeling I have is that it's a powerfull but not "solid" build, I mean if I lost my helion I'm naked.
That's frightening me )
The other thing is that when I have my 3rd CC done, it's hard for me to take the good decision.
I got quite no army at this timing, zerg also but with the money he can built 20 roach in a minute.
Am I safe enough to land this 3rd CC at his location, or should I keep it in my natural ?
Should I make units, or rax, or factory, or upgrades ? Tank or Thor ?
Well I've lost my 5 TvZ yesterday, it seems to me I made the wrong choice each time.
One big problem for me is that I can't deny Z scouting with overlord, so he see what I do (and laugh probably !)
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On October 11 2012 03:54 U_G_L_Y wrote:
I base traded a Protoss last night who did a 6 or 7 gate blink timing. I killed all buildings but 2 pylons and I had 3 CCs alive, but he had like 25 stalkers. It was a custom game so I just left but for future reference, what maps have a void that cant be hit by ground if I need to force a draw? It didn't seem like there was one on Cloud Kingdom... If it does, where is it?
Behind the naturals.
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EPT
