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Tausken
United States81 Posts
Its either mass ling or massling + Roach that comes early when my expand is starting to crank out. By that time I usually only have a few hellions and maybe 1 banshee and a few marines... so how can I scout this to better prepare? I guess what confuses me is if there's a scan timing? I've checked mvp's replays and find no real scanning he does as he seems to scout with the banshee, but by then the push is already breaking my door down. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
Some replays would help. Generally, signs of a Zerg all-in: 1) Gas before at least a minute before third hatch 2) No third hatch by 6:30-7:00 3) 3 or fewer queens 4) More than 4 zerglings 5) Roach or baneling tech While he might not be all-in with 3-5, they should be big warning signs. If you see 1 or 0 queens spreading creep, warning bells should be going off. If you see roaches before a third, he /could/ be playing a roach expand, but it's likely he's all-in. Simcity if you can, bunkers, mass repair. Snipe banelings with hellions/banshees. You shouldn't really die to this ever if you're going hellion/banshee like I believe MVP does. It's designed to play greedy and be safe, and do economic damage to the Zerg. I think Day[9] did a daily on this recently? Not sure, but I think he covered defending all-ins too. No need to scan, it won't tell you anything. If no third base and no all-in hits by 7:00-8:00, drop a scan in his main to see what his lair tech is. Typically, 2 base mutas are out by 10:00, so an 8:30 ebay will do fine. Basically if you scout gas and see no roaches or not many banes by 7:00-8:00, it's lair tech. | ||
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Zonderous
United States12 Posts
I joined in hopes of improving my game with terran. I'm top 8 gold and it's my first season. I would greatly appreciate it if you would tell me any flaws/wrongdoings in this game of TvT. I personally thought this game was full of flaws resulting in 40 minute gameplay, which is why I'm uploading this replay. Oh and also, I always run out of options during mid-game and end-game time period, and if you can give me tips for that, that would be very awesome too. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=271086 Thank you! This is not for advertising but feedbacks. | ||
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TFS
United States53 Posts
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Kamwah
United Kingdom724 Posts
On September 10 2012 16:13 TFS wrote: So, I did make a similar post a couple pages back, but I was kind of unsatisfied with the response. For now, I will simplify it. Can anyone recommend a safe, standard macro build for TvZ? I'm looking for something that can hold up to all ins and that isn't an all in itself, so as to work on mechanics and decision making in the matchup. I also do not want to use Filter's build. Look up the Hellion/Banshee thread. In that thread the popular mech followup BO also. I'm not sure of a bio followup because I don't do bio TvZ. | ||
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BrandFilt
Sweden57 Posts
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Poilon
France139 Posts
On September 10 2012 16:13 TFS wrote: So, I did make a similar post a couple pages back, but I was kind of unsatisfied with the response. For now, I will simplify it. Can anyone recommend a safe, standard macro build for TvZ? I'm looking for something that can hold up to all ins and that isn't an all in itself, so as to work on mechanics and decision making in the matchup. I also do not want to use Filter's build. I use this build : 1 rax expo low ground, bunker at the expo of you see something coming. 2 more rax, then 2 gases. 1 techlab, only marines, double engi, next 100 gaz : combat shield, then +1 +1 factory. stim and double reactor on the 2 rax reactor on factory + starport and then armory for +1 attack on tanks and +2 +2 flip starport and factory to put the reactor on the starport and start medivacs and make a techlab to the factory to start siege tanks production. facts : try to sync your first push at the b3 when combat shield is finished. take a 3rd CC inbase before tank production. start marauders production if you see infestation pit, or some banelings. if you see a spire, make turrets. if you can't scout, use a scan. try to grab the xelnaga tower with your 3 first marines. If a lot of lings(6+), make your bunker and you'll be safe pull scv to repair if allin. if you feel something bad, start marauders asap. as soon as your 3rd base is safe, make a 4th CC. If you see mutas, it mean no infestors at the beginning, then only marine marauders medivacs and add a lot of rax if you see infestors, then make a lot tanks, it's good. Start viking production if feel like it will be broodlords add only naked rax, on spots you can add techlab. if you see that it will be ultra and banelings, make techab on all of your rax, and add mass marauders. try to push and push and push, trade all the time. it's a very bio oriented build. pretty easy to macro, and micro oriented. learn how to split your units, and you will love this way to play  | ||
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sick_transit
United States195 Posts
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On September 11 2012 00:22 sick_transit wrote: I am a [L] level zerg player thinking about playing terran for a while for a change of pace. I would like to play a bio style because that's what I enjoy watching the most and it looks the most fun. Can anyone point me to a good bio build that will let me apply some early pressure but is not all-in, and that is workable in all match-ups? I know this is ultra-basic but that's where I'm starting from. I need something to practice so I can just start getting macro down. I have a sense of what to do but I don't know the timings of refineries, upgrades, depots etc. If someone could even just point me to the right page in liquipedia I'd appreciate it, or help of any kind would be appreciated. Many thanks. 9 depot 12 rax 14 rax 16 orbital Keep producing marines, supply depots and SCVs. Your money should naturally rise to the point where you can build a second command centre. Following this, build 2 more barracks and then 2 refineries. Tech lab one barracks, begin stim, take 3rd refinery. Begin factory construction with your next 100 gas, (in TvP you might want to build a marauder or two during this period), build an engineering bay and start +1 attack. Once the factory finishes, build a starport and a reactor on the factory. Build 4th refinery and your barracks addons (whatever is your preference at this point I guess). When the starport finishes building, swap the factory onto the starport and begin double medivac construction. Push out at around 10:30ish with 2 medivacs, +1, stim and combat shields/+1 armor on the way. The two barracks then four barracks will allow you to assert some map control and pressure with a lot of marines. Just be careful not to lose too much. The main push will be the 2 medivac, (later 4 medivac push) between 10:30 and 11:30. This build isn't optimal for each specific matchup but it's pretty good as an all around bio build. On September 10 2012 18:02 BrandFilt wrote: What do you do against zealot heavy armies in TvP? I've lost several times today against it and it's so frustrating seeing as it takes no skill to a-move some zealots but I have to micro like crazy and still the Protoss player comes out on top without any effort at all. It's such a bullshit tactic. And he has HT's as well (so marines only doesn't work) and switches to collosus in late game with some archons for anti-air (no stalkers at all), other than that only zealots. If you have access to the VODs, check out Byun's play in the lastest GSL against Rain and Genius. He basically aims for a mass ghost composition lategame, (30+). Try to slightly overmake vikings so you can take down colossus ridiculously fast and snipe observers in the protoss army. Spam EMP over the protoss army and cloak. The lower your SCV count as you reach maxing out the better. If you can control a 160 supply terran army with 30+ ghosts decently then Protoss is really going to struggle to win with any composition. Having a large ghost count also wrecks the inevitable zealot warp in if you come out ahead in an engagement. | ||
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sick_transit
United States195 Posts
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
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Silentness
United States2821 Posts
Did I play against a MKP wannabe or the real deal? http://drop.sc/249259 His name was EllenPage just like MKP's nickname. I checked his "Match History" and he dropped a lot of games to keep his MMR down. I couldn't find a game that he actually lost that was more than a second long. *EDIT* I forgot to mention that I was Random so he didn't know what race I was at the beginning. Doesn't matter anyways... Terran loves to fast expand regardless of race. | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On September 11 2012 06:35 awwnuts07 wrote: Having trouble finding a TvT build. What's a good one for gold level? Is Thorzain's build a solid place to start? Are you looking to play marine tank or mech? Edit: I know you say Thorzain's build (bio/mech opening) but is that a matter of preference or because you don't know where else to start? | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On September 11 2012 00:50 Absentia wrote: 9 depot 12 rax 14 rax 16 orbital Keep producing marines, supply depots and SCVs. Your money should naturally rise to the point where you can build a second command centre. Following this, build 2 more barracks and then 2 refineries. Tech lab one barracks, begin stim, take 3rd refinery. Begin factory construction with your next 100 gas, (in TvP you might want to build a marauder or two during this period), build an engineering bay and start +1 attack. Once the factory finishes, build a starport and a reactor on the factory. Build 4th refinery and your barracks addons (whatever is your preference at this point I guess). When the starport finishes building, swap the factory onto the starport and begin double medivac construction. Push out at around 10:30ish with 2 medivacs, +1, stim and combat shields/+1 armor on the way. The two barracks then four barracks will allow you to assert some map control and pressure with a lot of marines. Just be careful not to lose too much. The main push will be the 2 medivac, (later 4 medivac push) between 10:30 and 11:30. This build isn't optimal for each specific matchup but it's pretty good as an all around bio build. If you have access to the VODs, check out Byun's play in the lastest GSL against Rain and Genius. He basically aims for a mass ghost composition lategame, (30+). Try to slightly overmake vikings so you can take down colossus ridiculously fast and snipe observers in the protoss army. Spam EMP over the protoss army and cloak. The lower your SCV count as you reach maxing out the better. If you can control a 160 supply terran army with 30+ ghosts decently then Protoss is really going to struggle to win with any composition. Having a large ghost count also wrecks the inevitable zealot warp in if you come out ahead in an engagement. ...you never 9 depot. Why would you ever say 9 depot... You 9 depot when you go 10/10 or 11/11 proxy. 10 depot 12 rax 14 rax is a standard 2 rax. | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On September 11 2012 08:09 iAmJeffReY wrote: ...you never 9 depot. Why would you ever say 9 depot... You 9 depot when you go 10/10 or 11/11 proxy. 10 depot 12 rax 14 rax is a standard 2 rax. Sorry man. I made a minor mistake in a pretty extensive post. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On September 11 2012 08:13 Absentia wrote: Sorry man. I made a minor mistake in a pretty extensive post. It's whatever, and to me a bad build to suggest for a vs every race build, but that's me -- and at least you admitted it. I just nit pick the rare times I post now. Not to mention, going 12/14 rax you don't get the CC down until 4:30 or so, if not later. So that, plus 2 more rax, then 2 gas, and a tech lab we're looking at...6-7 min before you can even start stim, let alone get +1 attack, CS later, and 2 medics and a factory. You won't have the gas to do this. If you do, it's because you cut reactors/tech labs and marauders so you have a marine 95% army, at best, and way under a standard 1 rax FE into TL/R/R 3 rax build army count at that same 2 medic map control push. I'd just suggest, in my own opinion a standard 1 rax FE into 3 rax 2 gas timing. 12/14 rax is sub optimal, and you sack econ for a few more marines early, that can't do anything on the map in any matchup because your gasses are so late. The best you can do is a marine check on a 3rd in tvz, a marine check at ~7 min in TvP, or walk to your death in TvT. | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On September 11 2012 07:11 Absentia wrote: Are you looking to play marine tank or mech? Edit: I know you say Thorzain's build (bio/mech opening) but is that a matter of preference or because you don't know where else to start? I'd like to stick close to bio since I'm trying to keep my unit usage consistent across all 3 match-ups. | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On September 11 2012 08:19 iAmJeffReY wrote: It's whatever, and to me a bad build to suggest for a vs every race build, but that's me -- and at least you admitted it. I just nit pick the rare times I post now. Not to mention, going 12/14 rax you don't get the CC down until 4:30 or so, if not later. So that, plus 2 more rax, then 2 gas, and a tech lab we're looking at...6-7 min before you can even start stim, let alone get +1 attack, CS later, and 2 medics and a factory. You won't have the gas to do this. If you do, it's because you cut reactors/tech labs and marauders so you have a marine 95% army, at best, and way under a standard 1 rax FE into TL/R/R 3 rax build army count at that same 2 medic map control push. I'd just suggest, in my own opinion a standard 1 rax FE into 3 rax 2 gas timing. 12/14 rax is sub optimal, and you sack econ for a few more marines early, that can't do anything on the map in any matchup because your gasses are so late. The best you can do is a marine check on a 3rd in tvz, a marine check at ~7 min in TvP, or walk to your death in TvT. What you say is correct but that's not what he asked for. If the intention was to optimise you wouldn't even suggest a vs every race build. He didn't ask for an, (or the) optimal vs every race build, he asked for one that would allow him to apply early bio pressure which 1 rax FE can't comfortably do without some race-specific modifications. He's also a low level zerg switching to terran so I think you're underplaying the utility of 2 rax into 4 rax will have at his level. I tested the build twice to make sure the gas timings were correct and they were. The build works and I thought it would be better to stick to what he asked for. He has an alternative in your post if he's not satisfied with the build I suggested at least. On September 11 2012 08:39 awwnuts07 wrote: I'd like to stick close to bio since I'm trying to keep my unit usage consistent across all 3 match-ups. 1. Thorzain's build 2. The build Jeffrey mentioned above, (1 rax FE > double barracks + double gas > tech lab + stim > factory + engineering bay > +1/stim/double medivac timing) 3. Reaper expand into a 3 barracks combat shield push. Those are three strictly bio openings I can think of. So yes....Thorzain's build is a solid place to start. | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On September 11 2012 09:05 Absentia wrote: I'd like to stick close to bio since I'm trying to keep my unit usage consistent across all 3 match-ups. 1. Thorzain's build 2. The build Jeffrey mentioned above, (1 rax FE > double barracks + double gas > tech lab + stim > factory + engineering bay > +1/stim/double medivac timing) 3. Reaper expand into a 3 barracks combat shield push. Those are three strictly bio openings I can think of. So yes....Thorzain's build is a solid place to start. [/QUOTE] Cool. thx a bunch. Wasn't sure if Thorzain's build was still good. I think I'll go with that one. | ||
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Silentness
United States2821 Posts
On September 11 2012 07:01 Silentness wrote: I didn't think this deserved its own thread so I'm posting it here in the Terran thread: Did I play against a MKP wannabe or the real deal? http://drop.sc/249259 His name was EllenPage just like MKP's nickname. I checked his "Match History" and he dropped a lot of games to keep his MMR down. I couldn't find a game that he actually lost that was more than a second long. *EDIT* I forgot to mention that I was Random so he didn't know what race I was at the beginning. Doesn't matter anyways... Terran loves to fast expand regardless of race. Actually now that I think about it... even though he has 0 legit losses, I'm starting to think that this is just some random wannabe. Why would MKP smurf and purposely stay in the plat/diamond league. FAIL >,< | ||
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