EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 302
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On July 15 2012 21:48 kollin wrote: Why do most pros say mech in all matchups is worse than marine tank? I know it is a lot less maneuverable (apart from hellions) and harder to harass with, but I thought that would get mitigated by the fact that you kind of just destroy all armies with it when your maxed (unless you engage really badly, get caught unsieged etc). Mobility, and that which counters mech per each race is more mobile, and can drop around you, even with turret rings. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On July 15 2012 21:55 iAmJeffReY wrote: Mobility, and that which counters mech per each race is more mobile, and can drop around you, even with turret rings. I would have thought the turret rings would have weakened the drop to the point where you can just send a hellions back for defence. Admittedly it might be harder if it's a doom drop, but with good scouting and sensor towers that shouldn't be an issue. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 15 2012 21:48 kollin wrote: Why do most pros say mech in all matchups is worse than marine tank? I know it is a lot less maneuverable (apart from hellions) and harder to harass with, but I thought that would get mitigated by the fact that you kind of just destroy all armies with it when your maxed (unless you engage really badly, get caught unsieged etc). It truly could have something to do with the fact that playing 50+ minute games in a Bo5 is really awful.... I honestly think that the difficulty lies in the fact that generally the Code S Korean pros are all really aggressive and it's just hard to get the right infrastructure up safely without their opponent continually poking and prodding and forcing some trades with expensive mech units. It's just very difficult to play the slow mech terran against a Korean opponent with 350 APM that's everywhere at once. Again, I just think it's an early- to mid-game issue. I think most pros would agree that mech is better lategame and that it's by far terran's money mix, but getting there is where all the problems lie. | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
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naggerNZ
New Zealand708 Posts
On July 16 2012 02:11 KaiserJohan wrote: how are you suppsoed to play TvP on Cloud Kingdom? When P cannons natural and takes and guards early third, what do you do to break him? Drop his main and split his units up. Keep your army just outside his third, and threaten to poke in/pick off out of position sentries. | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
On July 16 2012 02:18 naggerNZ wrote: Drop his main and split his units up. Keep your army just outside his third, and threaten to poke in/pick off out of position sentries. How do I drop his main with his army at the third? The map is incredibly tight and easily guarded, it puzzles me | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On July 16 2012 02:31 KaiserJohan wrote: How do I drop his main with his army at the third? The map is incredibly tight and easily guarded, it puzzles me If his army is at his 3rd he does have a bit of a walk to get to you unless he has blink. This should be plenty of time to kill some probes or snipe off pylons/tech structures. When you do drop at his main you could wait until you know he is sending his main army to defend it, then go into his 3rd with your army and snipe it. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On July 16 2012 03:17 kollin wrote: If his army is at his 3rd he does have a bit of a walk to get to you unless he has blink. This should be plenty of time to kill some probes or snipe off pylons/tech structures. When you do drop at his main you could wait until you know he is sending his main army to defend it, then go into his 3rd with your army and snipe it. you realize on cloud kingdom you essentiallly need to go through the 3rd or the natural to drop him, unless you go awkwardly through the top, or in the middle where the protoss army can just walk forward a few steps and snipe the medivacs (if they put pylons there) ? | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On July 16 2012 03:34 zhurai wrote: you realize on cloud kingdom you essentiallly need to go through the 3rd or the natural to drop him, unless you go awkwardly through the top, or in the middle where the protoss army can just walk forward a few steps and snipe the medivacs (if they put pylons there) ? Can't you just hug the edge of the map? That's what I've seen most Terrans doing. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
I feel like I am misunderstanding TvZ fundamentally. Pure bio works well vs Protoss because it does more DPS than gateway units and stimmed marines are faster. You can drop Protoss and abuse cliffs; in a straight up fight, marines beat the protoss mobile units (blink stalkers.) Zerglings respond to drops much more quickly than zealots and stalkers do and beat marines cost for cost unless you clump them. (Which you never ever want to do in TvZ for obvious reasons.) So how does playing the same bio strategy vs both races make sense, mathematically? What am I missing? | ||
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Bwall
Sweden145 Posts
On July 16 2012 04:38 U_G_L_Y wrote: This is an honest question, I am not whining, I am just trying to understand why everyone says Mech is bad vs Zerg: I feel like I am misunderstanding TvZ fundamentally. Pure bio works well vs Protoss because it does more DPS than gateway units and stimmed marines are faster. You can drop Protoss and abuse cliffs; in a straight up fight, marines beat the protoss mobile units (blink stalkers.) Zerglings respond to drops much more quickly than zealots and stalkers do and beat marines cost for cost unless you clump them. (Which you never ever want to do in TvZ for obvious reasons.) So how does playing the same bio strategy vs both races make sense, mathematically? What am I missing? What you say about drops isn't entirely true. Warp-ins are really good versus drops. Also, just thinking about the maths of damage and stuff can be very far from the truth, and the map layout plays a huge role in what compositions work. In big numbers, marines beat zerglings, period. If there's a choke, marines rape zerglings. | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On July 16 2012 04:38 U_G_L_Y wrote: This is an honest question, I am not whining, I am just trying to understand why everyone says Mech is bad vs Zerg: I feel like I am misunderstanding TvZ fundamentally. Pure bio works well vs Protoss because it does more DPS than gateway units and stimmed marines are faster. You can drop Protoss and abuse cliffs; in a straight up fight, marines beat the protoss mobile units (blink stalkers.) Zerglings respond to drops much more quickly than zealots and stalkers do and beat marines cost for cost unless you clump them. (Which you never ever want to do in TvZ for obvious reasons.) So how does playing the same bio strategy vs both races make sense, mathematically? What am I missing? Because broodlords+fungals. Broodlords screw tanks and thors, hellions are pretty irrelevant, and fungal tears through vikings. Also, early roach pressures can wreck you if you don't have ~6 tanks up with other stuff like hellion/banshee with it. Far too easy to die, too difficult to shut down mass expand from zerg, and too difficult to get good engagements vs hive tech+festor :| | ||
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SKDN
Sweden243 Posts
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ff7legend
United States213 Posts
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Silencioseu
Cyprus493 Posts
On July 14 2012 20:09 OneBaseKing wrote: What am I supposed to do against a mech terran? Usually against mech terrans, or terrans that go marine siege tank but tend to overproduce siege tanks, i kinda cheat in battlecruisers. Usually mech terrans will have vikings so against alot of vikings just have a single or two reactored Starports and 2 armories to outgrade your opponent in terms of air and then try to transition slowly to battlecruisers while keeping your position. Usually mech players can't push if they dont have the air superiority, so it's pretty easy to pull off/ | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 16 2012 02:31 KaiserJohan wrote: How do I drop his main with his army at the third? The map is incredibly tight and easily guarded, it puzzles me Push into the entrance at the natural and threaten. He'll be forced to pull some units down to deal with it, giving you a little more breathing room for your drop into the main. From there, you can manipulate the army by bouncing back and forth from the natural and main while elevatoring your drop back and forth between the main and 3rd. | ||
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