Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
I just played a 74 minute game TvT and mined out Daybreak. I was winning for most of the game, but ended up with too many vikings to take out his battlecruisers. Then he was left with a surplus of tanks and marines, and slowly ate me.
I'm looking for some really broad stroke pointers such as what is a good super-late game composition, when/when not to get BCs and other things, and I guess general advice! I have the most trouble with TvT. TvP and TvZ seem much more straightforward to me.
Just for info, I am currently Ranked #1 in Gold, but have been playing Platinum and even a few (I would assume low) Diamond players.
On July 17 2012 10:13 Pais wrote: hi guys. my name is pais and i am very lost in tvz. im in silver and got matched against a platinum zerg, 2 in a row. first one base roach all inned me which i should have scouted. But the second one let me get what army i wanted to move out with and just killed me. i move out to pressure his third and i just die. Can anyone look at the replay please. i just fell apart near the end. ANY tips would be helpful.
Firstly, from what I've seen in the replay, and also based on the fact that you get matched up against platinum players, I think it's safe to say that you play very well for silver league.
That said, I'd still recommend you to focus mostly on the basics, i.e. mechanics and macro. It's not only the easiest way to win (more units win against less units), but also most important for improving your play beyond these fundamentals: In the game at hand, your SCV production is inconsistent, and you end up with only about 40 SCVs on two bases. You get supply blocked three times (at 70, 86, and 118 supply). And even though your army production isn't bad, it's still far from constant. On a sidenote, with your economy you shouldn't have been able to support the three additional barracks you threw down near the end.
Also, you really should try to scout. Up until your scans at minute 13, you didn't even knew where your enemy's main was, and you never scouted his tech path or whether he took a third, a fourth, fifth, sixth, etc. In consequence, you also had zero map presence, and your enemy could develop his play uncontested. That's risky if you're playing greedy yourself, but if you're playing as safe as you did, it's an invitation to be outproduced later on. Notably, your opponent didn't take full advantage of it in this game (e.g. he didn't tech beyond lair, and he didn't take lots of expansions), but he still managed to establish a much better economy than you... and then he beat you with more stuff: He invested almost double the amount of resources in units, so it's hardly surprising if he wins in a straight-up fight.
In my opinion, the army encounters themselves played only a minor part in your loss. His army was larger than yours, he had banelings, you had mostly marines, he caught you when all your siege tanks were on the move... curtains. As I have written before, when it comes to banelings and terran players, you have two options: If you are a Korean military experiment, split your marines in a godlike manner, shoot the banelings, proceed to victory. If, for some reason, you are a regular mortal, you want something in between his banelings and your marines, preferably anything that isn't a marine.
Please note that I still think that optimizing your army composition shouldn't be a major concern of yours right now. To put it bluntly, you could have won that game with a marine-only army... if it was twice as large as his army, instead of half the size of it. On the other hand, the fact that you could win on macro alone doesn't mean that you really need to go full monobattle either: Maybe throw in a couple of marauders here and there, just something that mixes your composition up a little bit, so that your army isn't that easily predictable. It's not what's really important here - that's the macro stuff from above -, but it'll still give you a little edge in such games.
To be concise, I'd recommend to try to implement these changes into your play: - Regularly count the SCVs on your bases and try to reach full saturation as soon as possible. - Avoid supply blocks. - Try to constantly produce from all buildings, and try to not build anything that will be idle later on due to lack of resources. - Try to establish a map presence much earlier (e.g. hold the watchtowers, put units at strategic positions, etc.), if only to deny full vision to your enemy... if he doesn't know that he's not about to be attacked, that's already a boon to you. - Try to scout... the absolute minimum of information you need to have is whether your opponent has less, equal, or more bases than you; ideally, you also want to know what major tech route he's going for and what his current army looks like.
I need some suggestions for some strong early Terran cheese builds.
I play random & a lot of time this provokes my opponents to cheese me OR play super super greedy. I wish to be able to punish the greedy people better as terran, I feel i can do this well Z and P
The only 2 cheese builds i know as terran are the: 6rax (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=156256) 3rax + SCV allin (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517)
What are some up-to-date Allin's people are doing as terran to punish greedy play?
Hey guys, what's up? So I recently started playing SC2 again, after about one year of pause due to stress. I am renewed and wanted to try this game again. Could someone recommend me a good build for Terran? I was Gold league back in the day but obviously my skill level has decayed a lot. I don't see the threads with basic builds that I used so if someone helps me I would be very happy. Thanks guys
Alright, so I am a diamond zerg player. I watched Illusion's stream earlier, and that kinda inspired me to pick up terran a little more seriously. What I would like you to answer: Is there a terran version of the 15/15/15? Something that kinda works in every match up, and sets me up for a strong mid game? Or should I start off by doing 1 base/2 base timings? If so, any recommendations?
On July 17 2012 16:16 Henzor wrote: Hey guys, what's up? So I recently started playing SC2 again, after about one year of pause due to stress. I am renewed and wanted to try this game again. Could someone recommend me a good build for Terran? I was Gold league back in the day but obviously my skill level has decayed a lot. I don't see the threads with basic builds that I used so if someone helps me I would be very happy. Thanks guys
Hello everyone, I played a TvZ right now and lost to an all-in and generaly i lose to all-ins from zergs so Id like to ask how to defend them, especialy when they are this big. I open Rax FE always and go for MMM play.
I didnt scout the all-in but there are times where I scout it but still, what I do is not enough (like walling with raxes/bunkers etc).
On July 17 2012 16:28 Aocowns wrote: Alright, so I am a diamond zerg player. I watched Illusion's stream earlier, and that kinda inspired me to pick up terran a little more seriously. What I would like you to answer: Is there a terran version of the 15/15/15? Something that kinda works in every match up, and sets me up for a strong mid game? Or should I start off by doing 1 base/2 base timings? If so, any recommendations?
Like 15h/15p/15g?
If you're looking for a standard expand, you probably want to look at 1rax FE. You can open 1rax FE in every matchup, but the followups at about 19 food and onward are a little different for each matchup. The basic build is:
10 depot 12 rax Generally, scout after rax finishes 15 orbital 16 CC
CC can be placed on high or low ground depending on what you scout. After this, generally you have the choice to follow up with 2-4 additional rax or double gas. If you double gas, you can go for reactor hellions or fast banshees. If you go for additional rax, you're playing for a more bio-focused play.
On July 17 2012 16:28 Aocowns wrote: Alright, so I am a diamond zerg player. I watched Illusion's stream earlier, and that kinda inspired me to pick up terran a little more seriously. What I would like you to answer: Is there a terran version of the 15/15/15? Something that kinda works in every match up, and sets me up for a strong mid game? Or should I start off by doing 1 base/2 base timings? If so, any recommendations?
Like 15h/15p/15g?
If you're looking for a standard expand, you probably want to look at 1rax FE. You can open 1rax FE in every matchup, but the followups at about 19 food and onward are a little different for each matchup. The basic build is:
10 depot 12 rax Generally, scout after rax finishes 15 orbital 16 CC
CC can be placed on high or low ground depending on what you scout. After this, generally you have the choice to follow up with 2-4 additional rax or double gas. If you double gas, you can go for reactor hellions or fast banshees. If you go for additional rax, you're playing for a more bio-focused play.
Hope that gives you some good guidelines!
I should note that if you do the 16 CC (aka: 1depot version rather than depot -> rax -> depot -> CC) then you make a depot at 17 and don't make more than that 1 marine until that depot finishes (keep on making scvs ofc)
On July 17 2012 19:55 ionlyknowmymind wrote: Hello everyone, I played a TvZ right now and lost to an all-in and generaly i lose to all-ins from zergs so Id like to ask how to defend them, especialy when they are this big. I open Rax FE always and go for MMM play.
I didnt scout the all-in but there are times where I scout it but still, what I do is not enough (like walling with raxes/bunkers etc).
Best way to defend against roach/bane/ling all-ins are to
1. Wall-off with barracks/depots 2. Make 2 bunkers behind the wall (make sure baneling splash won't hit them) 3. If you scout it coming, pull SCVs into your main 4. Have a wall-off at the ramp between main and natural 5. High ground bunker behind that wall (make sure baneling splash won't hit it) 6. Micro well =)
Hi, I am a high Gold player and was wondering something. Is it a good idea to mech in all matchups if you don't have the apm to control your army and still macro well? I ask because it seems if you do go MMM/marine tank then you have to micro your army and I just can't do that and keep up a decent level of macro.
On July 18 2012 04:44 kollin wrote: Hi, I am a high Gold player and was wondering something. Is it a good idea to mech in all matchups if you don't have the apm to control your army and still macro well? I ask because it seems if you do go MMM/marine tank then you have to micro your army and I just can't do that and keep up a decent level of macro.
I don't really think so. Especially in TvP, it's just going to be an exercise in frustration. I'd suggest simply playing and concentrating on your speed, so you get to the level where you can control and macro at the same time. Keep in mind, if you're playing "high gold" players, it's not like they're going to have flawless macro/micro either
e: focus on your macro, and when you're sitting idle with your army, it'll probably help you a lot to have a sensor tower near it, or be at a watch tower (so you don't get hit when you're not prepared)
On July 18 2012 04:44 kollin wrote: Hi, I am a high Gold player and was wondering something. Is it a good idea to mech in all matchups if you don't have the apm to control your army and still macro well? I ask because it seems if you do go MMM/marine tank then you have to micro your army and I just can't do that and keep up a decent level of macro.
You should play with what you're most comfortable with. Some players are more comfortable with slloooooowwww pushes with mech, covering their back really well. Some players prefer to play more aggressive early. Some prefer to rely on midgame timings. It's all up to you.
Pick something that feels comfortable and play it A LOT. Over time you will get better, play faster, etc. I personally like marine/tank for TvZ and TvT, bio for TvP. You can play defensively with marine/tank, you can play offensively, there's a lot of room for HOW you use it. Just play with what you want to, steal a build from a pro, and just DO IT! :D
If, at any point, you feel like it's not working, try something else. Don't ever let mechanics be an issue for why you don't play a certain way. Just play it and the mechanics will work themselves out over time.
I've used the search function, but I can't find any terran 2 base all ins. I hate playing "standard" against the current zerg meta fast 3 base. I've been using the 1 rax FE into 4 port banshee, and I've won 75% of my TvZ this way (Thanks Nathanias!), but it always results in a bling counter attack, and subsequent base race.
Are there any good mech or bio builds that will allow me to max out off of two bases quickly enough to punish greedy play?
Hello again TL! I suspect this doesn't happen too often at higher leagues but I played the same protoss twice and he chronoed his initial gateways like crazy and rallied the initial zealots and stalkers over to my base. Against my 1rax expand it seems like he gets to my base when I have about 3 marines and a bunker. So he can just run past my stuff and into my main. Of course by wasting all his chrono it puts him way behind in probes and tech but I lost really bad in the first game and held a little better in the second.
My scouting SCV saw him saving the chrono so I thought "4 gate!". In future I'll try and keep my scout alive to see if he chronos that gateway or the cybernetics core. But I do struggle to focus on my build and keep the SCV alive when he sends 5 probes after it! And most protoss I play won't chrono boost (or do anything to reveal a build such as taking the second gas or building a robo) until the SCV is dead or gone.
So what I'm really getting at is how do you play against a 1-base protoss as a 1rax expanding terran? Is it necessary to get your first bunker immediately and put it between the ramp and the CC at your natural? I usually MULE like crazy until about 10 minutes; do you need to scan earlier against 1-base? Should I blindly put down more bunkers around 5 minutes in case of a 4-gate? Should I stay on 3 rax and get an engineering bay in case of DTs?
On July 18 2012 12:01 Efficient wrote: Hello again TL! I suspect this doesn't happen too often at higher leagues but I played the same protoss twice and he chronoed his initial gateways like crazy and rallied the initial zealots and stalkers over to my base. Against my 1rax expand it seems like he gets to my base when I have about 3 marines and a bunker. So he can just run past my stuff and into my main. Of course by wasting all his chrono it puts him way behind in probes and tech but I lost really bad in the first game and held a little better in the second.
My scouting SCV saw him saving the chrono so I thought "4 gate!". In future I'll try and keep my scout alive to see if he chronos that gateway or the cybernetics core. But I do struggle to focus on my build and keep the SCV alive when he sends 5 probes after it! And most protoss I play won't chrono boost (or do anything to reveal a build such as taking the second gas or building a robo) until the SCV is dead or gone.
So what I'm really getting at is how do you play against a 1-base protoss as a 1rax expanding terran? Is it necessary to get your first bunker immediately and put it between the ramp and the CC at your natural? I usually MULE like crazy until about 10 minutes; do you need to scan earlier against 1-base? Should I blindly put down more bunkers around 5 minutes in case of a 4-gate? Should I stay on 3 rax and get an engineering bay in case of DTs?
1) Don´t move your scouting scv behind the mineral lines. Just move it between the gases and in front of the nexus. With this he can´t block your path with a probes and he looses a lot of more mining time if he tries to hunt your scv.
2) If you have trouble aggainst those aggressive moves just do a 20 cc and wall of your ramp. When you see chronoboost on his gateway you can just build your cc on the highground. 16 cc is weak aggainst aggressive moves like this, because you cut marines for constant scv production. An advice would be to cut scv production in favor of more marines early if he chronoboosts his gateway. However in the 618 game you defend very well and didn´t have any problems at all. Just make sure to check whether he chronoboosts his gateway and pull 2-3 scvs to block his zealot.
I'm a bronze Terran (had been promoted to silver one season but quickly demoted) and played recently against a silver terran. I had him beat in macro all the way through, but lost at the end anyway. I know I have a lot to learn, and am wondering if any of you would be willing to watch this replay and give me some pointers. Thanks.
EPT
