EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 283
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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suspiciousbear
Canada112 Posts
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On June 29 2012 01:41 LazyFailKid wrote: Hello everyone ^_^, recently switched to terran (from zerg) and wondering what you guys think about a hellion/ghost opener to counter those zergs that go for mass queen while pumping drones out like crazy. So the idea behind it is getting ghosts early to snipe the queens and since queens are psionic they take 50 damage and die in 4 shots. The hellions are there to burn up lings if he makes them and kill the creep tumors since ghosts are slow and can be chased down by queens on creep (I think). This opener has the added side effect of putting the zerg player in an awkward situation if he goes ling/infestor like many zergs do now a days because ghosts that will probably have full energy and be able to snipe infestors like crazy. Only real counter would be roaches but since zerg has long range queens the zerg shouldn't be building them anyway, and if you see roaches you know an all in is coming or you're vsing an inexperienced player. Also this sets you up for an interesting drops and harass opportunities because you can constantly snipe queens to lower the zergs larvae generation (which believe me is REALLY dam annoying from a zerg perspective). you can also snipe larvae if you see that the eggs are making something because if I remember correctly larvae only have 25 hp and die in 1 snipe (their 25 armor being ignored by snipe). Also hellion drops would give more opportunities to do more economical damage to the zerg. So what do you guys think? Ghosts don't work as an opener. I have failed to make them work for a while now. There really doesn't appear to be any counter to 6 queens that don't cost larva and reduce the potency of all Terran openers, including but not limited to reaper FE, reactor hellion, 2 rax play and banshee openers. | ||
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Fairchild
133 Posts
What are 3 good builds to do for each match up, I can just grind out and get the feel for Terran? | ||
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xertion
Sweden52 Posts
On June 29 2012 02:50 Fairchild wrote: I'm a low master level Zerg player and I'd like to start playing as terran more often on the side. What are 3 good builds to do for each match up, I can just grind out and get the feel for Terran? TvT: ThorZaIN 1 rax expand into marine tank. TvZ: I honestly don't know, and I doubt many people do know a good solid TvZ build that will earn you a good win rate without being gimmicky or cheesy. I will go more into all in styles, such as trying out no rax expand into 6 racks no gas only marine pressure. TvP: Bombers 1 rax fast expand into 5 racks + starport | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On June 29 2012 03:46 xertion wrote: TvT: ThorZaIN 1 rax expand into marine tank. TvZ: I honestly don't know, and I doubt many people do know a good solid TvZ build that will earn you a good win rate without being gimmicky or cheesy. I will go more into all in styles, such as trying out no rax expand into 6 racks no gas only marine pressure. TvP: Bombers 1 rax fast expand into 5 racks + starport That advice on TvZ is uh.. about awful. Once they see CC first, they take a ~4:30 third, and can drop gas once an OL pokes and sees mass marines. Drop a few spines, and queens can easily deal with the marine pressure until he gets banes or roaches. Not to mention hatch first -> gas pool, or even standard 4 queen, drop gasses and get speed will deflect you easily with slow lings, 1-2 spines, and 4 queens transfusing. That should not be a staple strategy to suggest. Gasless FE into reactor hellion -> banshee, or 1 rax FE stim/cs/+1 marine hellion are very stable openings that, with scouting, are completely safe to busts and can pressure fast thirds effectively. | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 28 2012 18:54 Phays wrote: Hello TL Lately I have staggered onto the problem with mech TvZ that I simply cant win lategame unless I am on more bases than the zerg. Replay here, its vs a mid/highmaster zerg. http://drop.sc/208364 In this certain game I had killed 50drones at the 16min mark. I was really unlucky with the first big engagement, 2/2 finished right after. One big problem I have is playing cost efficient enough lategame, I should make more ravens and possibly more tanks atleast if he use alot of corruptors(my banshees cant snipe infestors). I know my macro could have been better. Posting this again, and please, actually help me. Some thoughts: If you scout hatch first, start your expo, and get your double gas, before your 1st marine and before your 2nd depot. It's not a huge thing perhaps, but it makes a difference. I've been doing both 1-1-1 for banshee/raven after expo and 2fac as you did in the replay, and I'm not entirely convinced which is best, but if you're gonna go 2fac you need to get tanks and siege before blueflame if you want to be safe. Roach aggression could have ended that game very badly for you. I'd say the advantage of banshee (and raven) is that you can scout better, you can snipe banelings if you're getting all-inned, and you can pick off a few creep tumours, and fast burrow abuse won't catch you off-guard. Plus you can get a viking to snipe overlords a lot faster, and can start a slow buildup of vikings to deal with drops. Though you did get a fairly fast port. I usually delay it until 3base is up when I go 2fac. Your gas is extremely late at your expansion. It might seem like you have enough for the time being, but mech eats gas really fast, so you want to build up that gas-bank as soon as possible. Especially since you didn't go for a fast 3rd. Also especially since you went for double armoury. You're kind of playing a bit bold, considering you have basically nothing to stop mutalisks with at 12 minutes in. I like getting fast 2 thors just to be safe, and then resume tank production. An alternative to this is to continually make marines from your barracks, so you have a good chunk of marines to deal with any surprise mutalisks. General macro problems. Add more facs sooner and never stop pumping hellions, and keep trying to be annoying with hellions. You move out your 3rd at the 15 minute mark. This is fairly late considering how the game has played out. Generally you want it started around 8 minutes and planted down at around 12. It is smart to send hellions out at the same time you took your 3rd, to be safe. So, props on that. On Ohana, though, it's much better to siege up outside your nat, as it covers everything more easily. You need sensor towers to see potential drops coming. Even with a turret ring a doom drop will instantly lose you the game if you don't see it in time. Tanks out in the open like you did won't land you a cost-effective battle. You need a better spread and more units in front of your tanks. And always focus down infestors with your tanks if you can. When the Zerg is posturing outside your base like your opponent was, try to just send random hellions to his mineral lines. It will force a reaction and give you some breathing room and space to set up for a good engagement. With all this said, I have an absolutely atrocious win-percentage in TvZ at the moment, with mech especially. I understand it's very difficult to execute perfectly and there are a lot of points where you can just straight up instantly lose the game. But keep fighting the good fight~ | ||
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Arolis
United States496 Posts
On June 29 2012 00:09 Sianos wrote: It depends on your playstyle and on your opponent´s Viking count. If you know he has just a few Vikings only with his army, you can try do do drops. If you both play passive with your armies or if you are containing him, you need to outproduce his Vikings to take control of your position. This should be easier with Marine-Tank because you will have more gas left than the meching player especially in the midgame. Alternatively, make a few thors if your marines can't get in range of the vikings. | ||
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siii
Norway251 Posts
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Seiferz
United States640 Posts
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StaNi
Ukraine54 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 29 2012 09:20 StaNislaV.Kh wrote: If Im play 14 CC, I beat the 6 pool? You need wall to beat 6 pool. If you make wall, you'll be okay-- so a 14 CC that walls your ramp should buy you time. If you build it on the low ground, you'll probably have to cancel, and might lose to just the zergling harass, or get pretty behind. Typically as a terran player you'll never see 6 pool, since a large number of terran builds wall and auto-win against it, making it risky for the zerg to use. | ||
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StaNi
Ukraine54 Posts
[B]On June 29 2012 09:24 Blazinghand wrote: You need wall to beat 6 pool. If you make wall, you'll be okay-- so a 14 CC that walls your ramp should buy you time. If you build it on the low ground, you'll probably have to cancel, and might lose to just the zergling harass, or get pretty behind. Typically as a terran player you'll never see 6 pool, since a large number of terran builds wall and auto-win against it, making it risky for the zerg to use. Yes, but Im see on stream MKP play 14 CC vs 6 pool on Antiga and lost. And on GSL aLive vs Leenock, but aLive play very bad... | ||
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Requiem-
Uruguay162 Posts
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StaNi
Ukraine54 Posts
On June 29 2012 09:29 Requiem- wrote: Best Opener against random players? I think rax-CC | ||
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WagonWheel
Canada7 Posts
I cant possibly missile turret my WHOLE base... usually I need those minerals to beat his army | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 29 2012 09:27 StaNislaV.Kh wrote: Yes, but Im see on stream MKP play 14 CC vs 6 pool on Antiga and lost. And on GSL aLive vs Leenock, but aLive play very bad... Yes, this is because 6 pool can beat 14 CC if it's on the low ground-- it's a build order win. If you wall with a 1 rax FE, though, you always beat 6 pool. Against every build but 14 CC, 6 pool is bad. Sometimes, if you see a pro player like MKP who always 14CC, the zerg knows this. So he goes 6 pool. But for a normal player 6 pool is very rare, since they don't know you have a history of 14CC. since a 6 pooling zerg can't possibly scout a 14CC and then decide to 6 pool or not, it's always a metagame play. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
The minute colossus and high templar hits the field, my army melts and the battle are generally extremely one sided. Vs zerg is more back and fourth, but eventually I can't kill ultra fast enough b4 I ran out of bases. And when I try to "pressure" or harass mid game, my army gets killed by ling surrounds or eat a fungal or forcefields. It seems that pressuring just pointless now any reason why i shouldn't all in every game? | ||
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xertion
Sweden52 Posts
On June 29 2012 04:08 iAmJeffReY wrote: That advice on TvZ is uh.. about awful. Once they see CC first, they take a ~4:30 third, and can drop gas once an OL pokes and sees mass marines. Drop a few spines, and queens can easily deal with the marine pressure until he gets banes or roaches. Not to mention hatch first -> gas pool, or even standard 4 queen, drop gasses and get speed will deflect you easily with slow lings, 1-2 spines, and 4 queens transfusing. That should not be a staple strategy to suggest. Gasless FE into reactor hellion -> banshee, or 1 rax FE stim/cs/+1 marine hellion are very stable openings that, with scouting, are completely safe to busts and can pressure fast thirds effectively. Maybe you missed or ignored 90% of that sentence. It was not a advice, I told him that I actually have no clue about the matchup anymore. I just told him what I will try out more now, more all ins since I feel that going macro game vs Zerg is impossible. | ||
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Requiem-
Uruguay162 Posts
u mean 1rax expand? | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
This is actually a great question! Everytime I end up facing random I get a little thrown off because of the possibility of a TvZ. I currently am going 1 Rax FE since that is my build for both TvT and TvP typically, and it works. However in TvZ I think you are just asking to get busted with the "not all in All in" roach bling ling attack at 8:30. In fact, in about 20 tries I have not one time held that attack with a 1 Rax FE (I have "not died right there" a few times, but after watching the rep it put me behind way too much to every come back and win). So it's a really shitty roll of the dice for me because of TvZ. I guess I could go with my TvZ build vs random, but that is a really weird build to use vs T or P. (I go with the Demuslim +1, stim timing to kill a fast third or pressure the nat, than play into all bio). Other ideas are very welcome on what to do vs Random. I had another thought, which is that many many random players just cheese, so to have a universal cheese vs random. Possibly the super early 3 rax marine/scv all in. I prefer playing straight up, but 75% of randoms cheese me anyway. Let me know what you guys are doing. I am mid/upper masters. | ||
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