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On June 27 2012 13:34 dynwar7 wrote: Still looking for a good TvT strat...
Basically In TvT, if I go marine tank, I obviously need some medivacs. But then vs a mech player, his vikings will kill my medivacs. I can add marauders to kill the tanks, but is this viable? So I guess playing a standard marine/tank/medivac vs a mech, I need to add some marauders, is this viable?
Also, since I am a marine tank player, should I add vikings? Or just stop medivac altogether? This is a dilemma since I need medivacs to heal, but they get killed by vikings...
Arrrgghh TvT is sooo confusing T_T
Marauder/tank(/thor) is a great way to play against mech.
With marine/tank, though, you really shouldn't be losing medivacs outside of fights. Stimmed marines will kill vikings incredibly fast, especially considering the lack of upgrades the vikings will have.
I wouldn't add vikings until you go for (the eventual) air-switch, in which case you want to kind of mass them up in secrecy and surprise your opponent with superior numbers.
On June 27 2012 13:48 DW-Unrec wrote: how far can you go in bio (like N raxes, N bases, N minutes) before switching to mech? BL + infestor is good against full mech?
I suppose it's possible to switch at any time in theory, but considering upgrades aren't shared between bio and mech you probably don't want to switch to mech too late. You can't really justify switching to mech, either, as it isn't an 'improvement' over whatever you were making previously in most situations.
However, doing something like 15CC into 3rax marines and then transition into mech as you pressure with the marines you made is perfectly fine. As you can tell, it's a very early transition, which is the only kind I would ever recommend.
BL + infestor is good against mech.
Edit: I'm assuming your first question, like your second one, is in regards to TvZ.
On June 27 2012 06:57 attaQue90 wrote: Hey, i play the +1 Throzain in TvT. Sometimes i have trouble with early Tanks. What do u think about to skip the Reactors of Rax 2 and 3 instead of build 1 or 2 extra Rax? Cause it costs so much time to build the Reactors, and my enemy has more marines + Tanks at ~7:30.
If you do Thorzain's build correctly, you should have more marines than the earliest big rush, plus you'll have combat shield. Perhaps the best answer is simply just doing a poke around when combat shield finishes. You can gain map control, scout around, and most importantly MEET EARLY TANK PUSHES AWAY FROM YOUR BASE.
Generally Thorzain's build can straight up destroy a push if you meet it in the middle of the map with tanks unseiged. Or if you want to use some finesse, you can just pull your marines to a corner and sandwich the push with your reinforcement marines.
I do Thorzain's build every game, and it works wonders. You just need to start being active as soon as combat shield finishes.
So. Recently I've run into a bunch of zergs that are taking their third at 6:15 to 6:30 on three queens and no zerglings, or very very few zerglings. Initially I was trying to do builds that would hit at 8-9 minutes to capitalize on them trying to drone really hard on nothing...and then I thought, "Hey! just attack at 6:45 to 7:00 with whatever and some scvs! because he'll have nothing." It turns out that's a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible, horrible damage idea, resulting in being behind and then getting raped.
I'm struggling with what builds to do, specifically, that go back to my 8-9 minute idea. I feel like 10:30+ timings are just too risky and give the zerg too much time to react and prepare, while allowing him to get drones out (unless you can do some sort of banshee harrass INTO that attack or something), and really that it might be better to just go for a greedy game yourself if you're not going to do any aggression until then. So I'm looking for ideas. My previous build was a 1 rax FE into 3 rax with hellions and stim, but....it's been really messy, and hit's later than I think is optimal, at least how I'm doing it.
Does anyone have some advice on builds, or general advice (even if it's "no angel, actually you just need to go for a macro game with really safe aggressive drop play fast into maurader heavy assload of medivac fun time")?
On June 27 2012 13:48 DW-Unrec wrote: how far can you go in bio (like N raxes, N bases, N minutes) before switching to mech? BL + infestor is good against full mech?
Generally, I believe bio is better in the early- to mid-stages of the game, so I try to emphasize a lot of barracks play early on (3-5 rax on 2 bases). However, about the time that both players saturate their 3rd is about the time you should be thinking about a switch to mech. This is generally around 12-16 minutes.
The way I do this is to simply add tanks to my MMM mixture with 1 factory until I see hive tech. Then I add 2 more factories and switch to thor production. Of course, you could add the tanks earlier or add more factories to speed up the transition. Essentially, the latest you can start switching to mech is like 2+ minutes before BLs.
And BL + infestor is about equal to mech. Mech is like terran's tier 3 and should be able to always hold it's own against BL/infestor, though, assuming you can micro some and spread vikings etc.
On June 27 2012 14:35 Angel_ wrote: So. Recently I've run into a bunch of zergs that are taking their third at 6:15 to 6:30 on three queens and no zerglings, or very very few zerglings. Initially I was trying to do builds that would hit at 8-9 minutes to capitalize on them trying to drone really hard on nothing...and then I thought, "Hey! just attack at 6:45 to 7:00 with whatever and some scvs! because he'll have nothing." It turns out that's a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible, horrible damage idea, resulting in being behind and then getting raped.
I'm struggling with what builds to do, specifically, that go back to my 8-9 minute idea. I feel like 10:30+ timings are just too risky and give the zerg too much time to react and prepare, while allowing him to get drones out (unless you can do some sort of banshee harrass INTO that attack or something), and really that it might be better to just go for a greedy game yourself if you're not going to do any aggression until then. So I'm looking for ideas. My previous build was a 1 rax FE into 3 rax with hellions and stim, but....it's been really messy, and hit's later than I think is optimal, at least how I'm doing it.
Does anyone have some advice on builds, or general advice (even if it's "no angel, actually you just need to go for a macro game with really safe aggressive drop play fast into maurader heavy assload of medivac fun time")?
thanks.
-discouraged.
The build that I have been doing is a 1rax expo into 4rax. If you macro correctly, you should have excess minerals to make a 3rd at 7:00 and attack with 16-17 marines. This 7:30 push almost always kills the 3rd and/or a bunch of zerglings. Doing some research on this, I've found that I break even on workers with zerg by 9:00 (about 50 SCVs).
This naturally transitions into a bio heavy midgame based around 2 techlab rax + 2 reactor rax and constant medivac production. The follow-up push is at 12:00 with stim/cs, +1/+1, and medivacs. I've had great success stepping into the late game by just being incredibly aggressive from 12:00-15:00 while establishing a 3rd.
Just a thought! If you want the build order, I'll give it to you. Other ideas are centered around early rax pressure, sometimes with combat shield. If you do 4 rax + 1 gas, you might be able to do a cs push around 8:00. Similarly, you can do a 7:00 cs push off of 3rax (but less marines).
On June 27 2012 14:35 Angel_ wrote: So. Recently I've run into a bunch of zergs that are taking their third at 6:15 to 6:30 on three queens and no zerglings, or very very few zerglings. Initially I was trying to do builds that would hit at 8-9 minutes to capitalize on them trying to drone really hard on nothing...and then I thought, "Hey! just attack at 6:45 to 7:00 with whatever and some scvs! because he'll have nothing." It turns out that's a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible, horrible damage idea, resulting in being behind and then getting raped.
I'm struggling with what builds to do, specifically, that go back to my 8-9 minute idea. I feel like 10:30+ timings are just too risky and give the zerg too much time to react and prepare, while allowing him to get drones out (unless you can do some sort of banshee harrass INTO that attack or something), and really that it might be better to just go for a greedy game yourself if you're not going to do any aggression until then. So I'm looking for ideas. My previous build was a 1 rax FE into 3 rax with hellions and stim, but....it's been really messy, and hit's later than I think is optimal, at least how I'm doing it.
Does anyone have some advice on builds, or general advice (even if it's "no angel, actually you just need to go for a macro game with really safe aggressive drop play fast into maurader heavy assload of medivac fun time")?
thanks.
-discouraged.
If I may paraphrase from KawaiiRice, you 'need to' flip coins in this matchup currently. I've found this to be true myself. Either go for heavy macro and hope you don't get all-inned, or go for the most ridiculous and gimmicky 2base all-in you can think of and hope it doesn't get scouted. My favourite is 15cc (or 1rax FE) into 2port banshee followed by a marine/hellion/banshee/SCV all-in (PM if you want replays, though I'm still working on it so it isn't refined yet).
If you don't feel like doing either of those, I think your best bet is to turtle/defend all game and ever so slowly aim for splitmap (on maps that allow it). Towards this goal you'll want some heavy lategame units, like ravens, BCs, nukes etc. with a lot of defensive PFs, turret rings, supply depot walls, bunkers etc. etc. Kind of depends if you're going bio or mech, though.
In this certain game I had killed 50drones at the 16min mark. I was really unlucky with the first big engagement, 2/2 finished right after.
One big problem I have is playing cost efficient enough lategame, I should make more ravens and possibly more tanks atleast if he use alot of corruptors(my banshees cant snipe infestors).
Can you please just give me some tips what I need to do to improve my TvZ winrate? I know my macro could have been better.
Mech isn't viable in TvZ at the moment, and this is coming from a high master mecher. You're having problems playing cost-efficiently because there is no way to be cost-efficient against Zerg at any point in the game.
The way I approach TvZ these days is to turtle up hard and defend all game and hope my opponent disconnects or makes huge mistakes like clumping his army vs missiles, letting me use missiles (fungal outranges it, so in theory ravens should never ever work) or hope to land a nuke on his entire army.
Good luck.
wow, you nailed it..
But you mean bio is more viable? Ya maybe if you are polt or mkp..
Yeah, bio works if you have amazing micro. I say 'works' but really, nothing is working at the moment. But unless you are stubborn about going mech (as I am) then I would definitely recommend bio or even marine/tank oldschool style over mech.
personally, I've been experimenting with 15cc into 2port banshee with reactor fac and reactor rax and go all-in with SCVs afer harassing with 4 banshees. It's gimmicky, sure, but it's won me the most TvZs in a long time. I'm still working on it, though.
On June 27 2012 06:19 iAmJeffReY wrote: Okay starshaped, just get out of here seriously. All you do is rage about TvZ, and it's getting old. This is a help me thread, not a whine all day thread.
He asked about mech TvZ and I, as an experienced high-level mecher, responded. I'm sorry if you think I came off to blunt or was too honest, but I'm simply explaining the situation. I don't recomend anyone to mech, and every Zerg I talk to about the matchup will tell you the same thing: mech is the worst way to go.
If you have some magical way to mech TvZ, then go ahead and enlighten us. Otherwise, don't tell me I'm 'raging' or 'whining'. I'm being honest and serious to the best of my ability, and I think my history in this thread shows that.
On June 27 2012 06:29 silentdecay01 wrote: Mech is very viable in tvz......please leave Tl ur a troll and should be banned.
Mech in tvz is prob the most viable out of all the matches up.
Oh, I should be banned for voicing my opinion, of which I have countless high-master mech games in every matchup to back me up?
I would go so far as to say mech TvP is A LOT more viable than mech TvZ, of course with mech TvT being by far the best of all matchups.
Here's an idea. Learn a different style other than mech. I'm still winning, or putting up very good games against zerg going bio/mech with marine marauder hellion and just multitasking and aggression. Demuslim push dude, how many times do I say it in this thread. It sets you up SO sickly for a nice bio opening. Don't stick to one style if it isn't winning. Maybe constant mech isn't viable the way you're doing it -- I still see a lot of terrans EZing zerg with mech.
I'm sure it's somewhere else in the thread but do you mind sharing the demuslim push? or guiding me to a replay/vod where I can see it?
On June 27 2012 14:35 Angel_ wrote: So. Recently I've run into a bunch of zergs that are taking their third at 6:15 to 6:30 on three queens and no zerglings, or very very few zerglings. Initially I was trying to do builds that would hit at 8-9 minutes to capitalize on them trying to drone really hard on nothing...and then I thought, "Hey! just attack at 6:45 to 7:00 with whatever and some scvs! because he'll have nothing." It turns out that's a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible, horrible damage idea, resulting in being behind and then getting raped.
I'm struggling with what builds to do, specifically, that go back to my 8-9 minute idea. I feel like 10:30+ timings are just too risky and give the zerg too much time to react and prepare, while allowing him to get drones out (unless you can do some sort of banshee harrass INTO that attack or something), and really that it might be better to just go for a greedy game yourself if you're not going to do any aggression until then. So I'm looking for ideas. My previous build was a 1 rax FE into 3 rax with hellions and stim, but....it's been really messy, and hit's later than I think is optimal, at least how I'm doing it.
Does anyone have some advice on builds, or general advice (even if it's "no angel, actually you just need to go for a macro game with really safe aggressive drop play fast into maurader heavy assload of medivac fun time")?
thanks.
-discouraged.
I do this build and rape Zergs with only queens.
10 depot 12 rax 15 depot to like 10% -> halt and scout (rax scv finishes) Or anytime before to deny scout, doesn't change the BO at all. 16 gas 17 marine 17 OC 21 CC at natural (once OC is done, make an SCV and rally it to natural 400 minerals once it gets there) 23 factory 24 depot (start wall off) 25 rax 25 rax
Go with constant scv production and 4 marines -> reactor. Keep scouting SCV alive. Check gas, and pool timing, then go to natural to scout for a spine if they make it. If they make a spine, move out with 3 marines to pressure with 3 marine 1 scv. If no spine, go on 4 marines 1 scv. Kite lings (they're slow) and snipe any OLs you can. Spines are my priority, as they die very fast to 4 marines 1 scv. With decent control, you can get 1-2 drones, 3-4 lings, maybe a queen if they're sloppy, or maybe an OL.
Once the 2/3 rax are done, one gets a tech lab other starts marines. Once tech lab is about 50-75% done, start ebay at wall of. Depot well before you need them to not be blocked.
Constant hellions to keep map control, and constant marines to bolster your army. Start stim once tech lab is done, and +1 likewise with the ebay. After about 15-20 seconds of starting plus 1, start 2nd tech lab, and CS once it's done.
Move out a bit before stim cs and +1 finish to establish map control if it's 'safe'. Most zergs now a days go multiple queens, and a faster third. This push shits on those 3rds, as stim/cs/+1 marines with hellion support rolllllllll zerg units early. I personally delay the push by a bit, and make 3-4 marauders to pick off queens, and spines faster.
Once +1 is done, start +1 armor. When +1 armor is 70% start a 2nd ebay, and an armory.
Start 3rd cc 70-80 supply, in that range.
From there, get 2nd and 3rd gas, 2 more rax, starport, and 2nd factory. If they go ling infestor -> 2 factories start hellions constant with blue flame started. I have 5 rax, 2 tech lab, 3 reactor, 6 marine/2 marauder/2 hellion cycles. With this composition, you can be out on the map sniping lings and forcing more lings = less drones.
Once they establish a bit of order, tech lab 2nd factory, and get double factory siege tank production as you continue 5 rax, 2 fac, 1 port production.
You're set up for awesome 3 base production, fast upgrades, and constant pressure with still solid macro and an early third. Drops around 9-10 min.
This Build was posted originally on this thread by iAmJeffReY
On June 27 2012 13:34 dynwar7 wrote: Still looking for a good TvT strat...
Basically In TvT, if I go marine tank, I obviously need some medivacs. But then vs a mech player, his vikings will kill my medivacs. I can add marauders to kill the tanks, but is this viable? So I guess playing a standard marine/tank/medivac vs a mech, I need to add some marauders, is this viable?
Also, since I am a marine tank player, should I add vikings? Or just stop medivac altogether? This is a dilemma since I need medivacs to heal, but they get killed by vikings...
Arrrgghh TvT is sooo confusing T_T
Marauder/tank(/thor) is a great way to play against mech.
With marine/tank, though, you really shouldn't be losing medivacs outside of fights. Stimmed marines will kill vikings incredibly fast, especially considering the lack of upgrades the vikings will have.
I wouldn't add vikings until you go for (the eventual) air-switch, in which case you want to kind of mass them up in secrecy and surprise your opponent with superior numbers.
Thanks for this.
yeah,I plan to just play marine tank, but then adding mara when i see him going mech is good right? Then if the game has not ended, then i try to secretly mass vikings and bc and that stuff?
Is marine marauder hellion medivac a viable comp? How does it fair against the ling/infestor and muta ling bling comps? I'm asking in particular about a timing push at around 10:15, so when I'm at the zerg base, i get +1+1 and stim done. Is it cost inefficient? Note that I'm in top silver so i'm facing a lot of golds, and I can't seem to beat zerg at all, so any general tips would be nice. It seems that everytime i push out at 10:00 with MMM, a whole bunch of lings come at me and I'm outnumbered, so I have to retreat, and zerg is defended decently against drops. Will I have to eventually use tanks? I'm not a fan of tanks because I perfer to be mobile.
In this certain game I had killed 50drones at the 16min mark. I was really unlucky with the first big engagement, 2/2 finished right after.
One big problem I have is playing cost efficient enough lategame, I should make more ravens and possibly more tanks atleast if he use alot of corruptors(my banshees cant snipe infestors).
Can you please just give me some tips what I need to do to improve my TvZ winrate? I know my macro could have been better.
Mech isn't viable in TvZ at the moment, and this is coming from a high master mecher. You're having problems playing cost-efficiently because there is no way to be cost-efficient against Zerg at any point in the game.
The way I approach TvZ these days is to turtle up hard and defend all game and hope my opponent disconnects or makes huge mistakes like clumping his army vs missiles, letting me use missiles (fungal outranges it, so in theory ravens should never ever work) or hope to land a nuke on his entire army.
Good luck.
wow, you nailed it..
But you mean bio is more viable? Ya maybe if you are polt or mkp..
Yeah, bio works if you have amazing micro. I say 'works' but really, nothing is working at the moment. But unless you are stubborn about going mech (as I am) then I would definitely recommend bio or even marine/tank oldschool style over mech.
personally, I've been experimenting with 15cc into 2port banshee with reactor fac and reactor rax and go all-in with SCVs afer harassing with 4 banshees. It's gimmicky, sure, but it's won me the most TvZs in a long time. I'm still working on it, though.
On June 27 2012 06:19 iAmJeffReY wrote: Okay starshaped, just get out of here seriously. All you do is rage about TvZ, and it's getting old. This is a help me thread, not a whine all day thread.
He asked about mech TvZ and I, as an experienced high-level mecher, responded. I'm sorry if you think I came off to blunt or was too honest, but I'm simply explaining the situation. I don't recomend anyone to mech, and every Zerg I talk to about the matchup will tell you the same thing: mech is the worst way to go.
If you have some magical way to mech TvZ, then go ahead and enlighten us. Otherwise, don't tell me I'm 'raging' or 'whining'. I'm being honest and serious to the best of my ability, and I think my history in this thread shows that.
On June 27 2012 06:29 silentdecay01 wrote: Mech is very viable in tvz......please leave Tl ur a troll and should be banned.
Mech in tvz is prob the most viable out of all the matches up.
Oh, I should be banned for voicing my opinion, of which I have countless high-master mech games in every matchup to back me up?
I would go so far as to say mech TvP is A LOT more viable than mech TvZ, of course with mech TvT being by far the best of all matchups.
Here's an idea. Learn a different style other than mech. I'm still winning, or putting up very good games against zerg going bio/mech with marine marauder hellion and just multitasking and aggression. Demuslim push dude, how many times do I say it in this thread. It sets you up SO sickly for a nice bio opening. Don't stick to one style if it isn't winning. Maybe constant mech isn't viable the way you're doing it -- I still see a lot of terrans EZing zerg with mech.
I'm sure it's somewhere else in the thread but do you mind sharing the demuslim push? or guiding me to a replay/vod where I can see it?
On June 27 2012 14:35 Angel_ wrote: So. Recently I've run into a bunch of zergs that are taking their third at 6:15 to 6:30 on three queens and no zerglings, or very very few zerglings. Initially I was trying to do builds that would hit at 8-9 minutes to capitalize on them trying to drone really hard on nothing...and then I thought, "Hey! just attack at 6:45 to 7:00 with whatever and some scvs! because he'll have nothing." It turns out that's a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible, horrible damage idea, resulting in being behind and then getting raped.
I'm struggling with what builds to do, specifically, that go back to my 8-9 minute idea. I feel like 10:30+ timings are just too risky and give the zerg too much time to react and prepare, while allowing him to get drones out (unless you can do some sort of banshee harrass INTO that attack or something), and really that it might be better to just go for a greedy game yourself if you're not going to do any aggression until then. So I'm looking for ideas. My previous build was a 1 rax FE into 3 rax with hellions and stim, but....it's been really messy, and hit's later than I think is optimal, at least how I'm doing it.
Does anyone have some advice on builds, or general advice (even if it's "no angel, actually you just need to go for a macro game with really safe aggressive drop play fast into maurader heavy assload of medivac fun time")?
Just did this build twice with great results. Still getting need to practice the decision making of the push as well as the transition out, but it does damage.
repost from other thread since i thought this thread might be more appropriated
few noob question concerning TvT.
1. What is the standard/safe opening for TvT. I usually skip gas for fast exp. 3 rax, 2 with tech and add in factory for siege/port for medivac
2. How should i prevent drop from opponent? Last few game, I manage to out macro enemy and have 1/2 base over them. I was pushing back and lock them in but they just drop medivac at my expo, kill off svc and sometimes even CC. Should i alwasy build sensor tower to prevent this?
3. I am not quite sure the meta of TvT is anymore. when i played SC 2 a year ago, It was that you control the air, you control the game but it doesnt seem that way anymore. Anyone mind explaining the meta of TvT as of right now?
I just played a TvZ where I did a "new build" of mine that I'm trying out. I don't think that I did any mistake at all except that I was LITTLE delayed by 1-1 upgrades which might have caused 1 battle to be little more trade efficient. The game is vs Master Zerg.
So the game was: - Fast expand into hellions into third Orbital Command. - QXC Bunker to stop creep spread and to make the later push to the third base more efficient - While I'm on 3 OC vs 2 base Zerg I wait until he takes third, and then I do a tank + marine push with Stim and Combat shield (and preferably 1-1, however it was little delayed this game so I never had 1-1 during the fight).
With my push I did successfully kill his third base while he was massing up his ling + infestor army. He than overrun my army at his third base with mass lings. Meanwhile I've set up my third base and I'm waiting with a bunch of tanks and spread out marines vs infestors.
He easily overrun my army and third base while he go into hive tech, 3-3 and ultralisks. After his overrun on my third, the game is basically over however it drags out for a while longer until I finally GG.
The ONLY mistake I see that I made this game was: - Little delayed 1-1 which would've made the first battle more trade efficient for my part. - I didnt spot his fourth base (He double expanded after he killed QXC-bunker, which I missed)
He still totally overrun me. I dont see that I did any wrong with the macro. Maybe I could've set up my second factory little bit faster, but still. What should I have done?
EDIT: Please notice that I have low money whole game, I have more scv than he have drones and we are about same amount of bases (He takes a fourth base that he never gets to use until his third dies, so we are both on 3 bases until the game is over).
EDIT2: Second mistake I made that I see now is too high energy on Orbital Commands. Too many saved mules. Which makes a difference in macro. However should it really make THAT big of a difference on 3v3 base TvZ? Is that the "only" mistake I did?
How do I play marine tank/bio in TvT? I mean, I normally like going marine tank, and when I see he is going mech I try to add ltos of marauders since they are good vs mech.
But the main problem for me is...medivacs. His vikings will kill my medi and I cannot heal my marine marauder....what is the remedy of this? Surely many pros hav eplayed a lot of bio/marine tank vs mech and encountered situations such as this?
I believe that bio tank is at a disadvantage towards mech in general because 1. He will usually have superior viking count to yours meaning dead medivacs and losing "siege vision" 2. Bio tank is almost as immobile as mech, except the marines which lose to a lot of blue flame hellions which are also moblie 3. He will generally have superior tanks because he will have double armory upgrades So, I think if u see someone going mech you should either go full bio to gain full mobility or mech yourself. Just my opinion
From my point of view I: *Get fast 3 OC *Hold his shitty 2base all-in with 0 losses (but I guess it's not really possible for Zerg to be all-in)
From there? I should be super far ahead, right? Like, how can he all-in and fail and still be totally fine? He just creeps the map, takes expos, techs, and I can't do a single thing even though I have a strong economy, good upgrades, and an equal army in food. If I move out and lose my army once it's over, and there's no way to move out on creep vs roaches with mech, and the creep is touching my nat so absurdly fast...
I try to harass with some hellions, but it doesn't do much. The one time I move out to clear some creep so I can put down a 4th I get instantly surrounded and lose everything.
I try to get ghosts vs infestors. but good luck getting off a single fucking EMP.
This matchup feels so hopeless right now for me...
On June 24 2012 23:51 halpimcat wrote: Any videos or replays of people splitting somewhat decently vs storms? If I knew what it looked like I think I could successfully replicate it. As of now I'm splitting as if I were microing vs banelings, but since storm instant I'm still eating it hard.
Here is a awesome storm dodging action from dragon:
holy shit nerd chiiiilllllsssssssss dos f******n storm dodges!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On June 28 2012 00:03 Starshaped wrote: OK, to anyone who says mech is totally awesome in TvZ, please watch this and tell me what the hell I can do (high master EU): + Show Spoiler +
From my point of view I: *Get fast 3 OC *Hold his shitty 2base all-in with 0 losses (but I guess it's not really possible for Zerg to be all-in)
From there? I should be super far ahead, right? Like, how can he all-in and fail and still be totally fine? He just creeps the map, takes expos, techs, and I can't do a single thing even though I have a strong economy, good upgrades, and an equal army in food. If I move out and lose my army once it's over, and there's no way to move out on creep vs roaches with mech, and the creep is touching my nat so absurdly fast...
I try to harass with some hellions, but it doesn't do much. The one time I move out to clear some creep so I can put down a 4th I get instantly surrounded and lose everything.
I try to get ghosts vs infestors. but good luck getting off a single fucking EMP.
This matchup feels so hopeless right now for me...
On June 28 2012 00:03 Starshaped wrote: OK, to anyone who says mech is totally awesome in TvZ, please watch this and tell me what the hell I can do (high master EU): + Show Spoiler +
From my point of view I: *Get fast 3 OC *Hold his shitty 2base all-in with 0 losses (but I guess it's not really possible for Zerg to be all-in)
From there? I should be super far ahead, right? Like, how can he all-in and fail and still be totally fine? He just creeps the map, takes expos, techs, and I can't do a single thing even though I have a strong economy, good upgrades, and an equal army in food. If I move out and lose my army once it's over, and there's no way to move out on creep vs roaches with mech, and the creep is touching my nat so absurdly fast...
I try to harass with some hellions, but it doesn't do much. The one time I move out to clear some creep so I can put down a 4th I get instantly surrounded and lose everything.
I try to get ghosts vs infestors. but good luck getting off a single fucking EMP.
This matchup feels so hopeless right now for me...
Have you looked how Goody plays TvZ lately ?
Yes, bio.
And if you mean his mech, whenever I see him win with mech TvZ I always think "Oh, Zerg didn't feel like winning." It amazes me whenever he does win. He does perfect aggression, but for me it's impossible to tell when I'm able to be aggressive and when I will just be run over by 200 food roach or something.
EPT
