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On May 09 2012 02:42 NihiLStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 02:23 nojok wrote:
I'm plat, when I face protoss I go classic 1 rax exe, 3 rax pressure when first 2 medivacs are out with stim. But when they rush colossi, I have a hard time taking them down. Should I scout they don't have sentries early and go for more pressure? Is there a bit of macro to take this 1 or 2 early colossi down? Is my macro so bad I don't hit enough early? I feel I often move at 10. If you begin moving out at 10:00 game time and you are really doing the aggressive 1 rax CC into 3 rax total push with as much Marine/Marauder as possible, the first two Medivacs and Stim (and nothing else) then you are indeed almost a minute late. Refine your build by watching pro replays (or post a replay of yourself) and you should be able to pull it all off a bit quicker. It's extremely important to never get supply blocked and really get that push out as soon as humanly possible because if your opponent is rushing colossi, as you mentioned, you should be able to hit him when he's on just one Colossus. He will have rushed that one Colossus like crazy, so he can't have much of a gateway support army (or Thermal Lance). With stim you should be able to do a lot of damage at that point (use your stimmed Marauders to focus fire the Colossus). But if you screwed up or didn't pull the build off just right and you're just 30 seconds late, he might well have a second Colossus there and then he's pretty much in the safe zone already and there's not much you can do to keep the game from going into the late game where it'll be even harder for you to win. Be aware, though, depending on the map (how easy/feasible it is to use forcefields on the ramp/entry to his natural) it might not even be possible to punish a Colossus rush straight up. In that case I drop to pull his army away from the ramp, then stim and run into his natural with my main army (kinda banking on the fact that he messes up his forcefields with the drop going on at the same time). It isn't pretty or elegant but it works pretty frequently at Diamond level and - at any rate - it's a lot better then going to the late game without putting on pressure and doing damage.
Thank you
But also start +1 and never cut SCV production, I followed the guide herehttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787 and it indicates to push at 10, I followed the silver league one against protoss. I then add 2 rax start combat shield expand, depending how my macro slipped.
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Yeah, if you mix more 'stuff' into the timing push (+1, you can add combat shields to this push already, concussive shells and even +1/+1), then you are delaying your push of course. 10 Minutes when adding in +1 is okay (we would need to see a replay to confirm properly though, your macro might slip [mostly the barracks production] for example). Of course, against a Colossus rushing toss, you really are better off the earlier you attack. As I said, 2 Colossi and potentially Thermal Lance seal the deal, really, at that point you just can't attack into the opponent anymore, no matter the infantry upgrades you got (assuming they throw down half decent forcefields). You need to be able to identify whether or not your Protoss opponent is going to rush tech or not with good scouting and react properly. Micro your scouting SCV in his base until 4:00 game time, if he is on two gases already at that point, he's not 4 gating you and neither is he going to get a fast Nexus - this means a tech rush of some sort is a big possibility (could be DTs, could be Colossus rush, could be blink stalker observer all in and so on). So when you see this, scan his main with the natural Orbital when it finishes. If he rushes Colossi he will have a Robo in the making after one gate (and he'll probably have gates 2 and 3 on the way as well at this point). Now you can be reasonable certain as to what he's up to, so you can react by forgoing the ebay and +1 and instead getting your factory 100 gas quicker (that would have been the +1 otherwise of course) and your push will be more aggressive and early enough to hit when he's just on one Colossus which with stimmed Marauders is manageable.
In theory that should help you. In theory! 
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Where can I find a big replay pack? I have no clue how to TvT or timings for TvZ and I need the latest big tournament replay pack if anyone can help me.
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On May 09 2012 02:23 nojok wrote:
I'm plat, when I face protoss I go classic 1 rax exe, 3 rax pressure when first 2 medivacs are out with stim. But when they rush colossi, I have a hard time taking them down. Should I scout they don't have sentries early and go for more pressure? Is there a bit of macro to take this 1 or 2 early colossi down? Is my macro so bad I don't hit enough early? I feel I often move at 10.
Depends on the build, but I feel that 9:00 is the upper limit on when to move out. If you're moving our at 10:00, that definitely seems late, assuming you're free to execute your build correctly.
My rule of thumb for a 3 rax is to move out by 9:00 and try to get 3 out of 4: stim, shields, 2 meds, +1 weap. I don't mind if some ups finish on the way, but i want the ups done by 9:30 before I hit their nat or 3rd.
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Ok thank you a lot. I will work on my timings. I don't really bother of late game anyway at the moment, I want to work on my supply depots & production. I disabled sound so I have to watch for my SCVs and it works. Should I cut SCV production before 10 to make the push stronger?
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I don't think cutting SCV production is a good idea. This 10 minute TvP push doesn't usually end the game so you really only diminish it by sacrificing economy. Semi all-ins are usually bad by design, either do a 'full' all-in (classic 1/1/1 with pulling workers for example) where you of course cut SCVs or play the 10 minute push from the 1 rax CC to poke, deal as much damage as possible and fall back to a good economy to stand a chance later.
I have personally not seen or heard of a standard 10 minute timing push like you described where you would want to cut SCVs.
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On May 09 2012 04:04 nojok wrote:
Ok thank you a lot. I will work on my timings. I don't really bother of late game anyway at the moment, I want to work on my supply depots & production. I disabled sound so I have to watch for my SCVs and it works. Should I cut SCV production before 10 to make the push stronger?
I never cut SCVs. In fact, I start my third, add upgrade buildings, and drop more rax during my push out. At the push, your economy will easily keep your 3 rax and reactor starport busy, so there's no need for extra minerals from an SCV cut.
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On May 09 2012 04:04 nojok wrote:
Ok thank you a lot. I will work on my timings. I don't really bother of late game anyway at the moment, I want to work on my supply depots & production. I disabled sound so I have to watch for my SCVs and it works. Should I cut SCV production before 10 to make the push stronger?
I dont think i have ever cut scvs for a push (maybe 1/1/1). I think the push at 10 min is not too strong, in the sense that it's not going to kill the toss. Later you need scvs again or even if you do dmg the game is just even.
Edit: I really like SCVs I sometimes make too many of them an wonder why my army is so small. Made 110 the other day... Still won though! =)
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Secondly, when I get stuck on two bases a little longer than I would like, am I supposed to cut worker production until I can expand again, or do I just keep going and over saturate my two bases?
Hey, sorry for repeating a question, but I never got an answer to the above, and I'm still not sure what the best decision is.
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On May 09 2012 16:07 maglame wrote:Show nested quote +Secondly, when I get stuck on two bases a little longer than I would like, am I supposed to cut worker production until I can expand again, or do I just keep going and over saturate my two bases? Hey, sorry for repeating a question, but I never got an answer to the above, and I'm still not sure what the best decision is.
Keep on producing workers. If you don't you can't really saturate your 3rd if you do you can as soon as you can grab your third. It's like doing a e.g. 1 rax expo and the protoss is alling you from 1 base. You lift the second cc and land it back in your main again and produce workes out of two ccs so you can saturate once you held of the aggression. It's the same on 2 bases.
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Anyone want to tell me where I went wrong in this TvP?
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/18843
Had ghosts, marine marauder medivac. Kept him on 3 base. Researched 3/3 and I was on 4 base, getting more. He just crushed every army I made.
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I have a couple of questions.
1) What are some good bio (later bio/mech) strategies in TvT? I've heard of the Thorzain TvT style, but does anyone have a good build order for it, and/or some other good builds?
2) Does anyone have a good "2/2/2" build order for TvP? By 2/2/2, i mean 2 base tank push.
Thanks in advance!
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On May 10 2012 03:13 MonDeW wrote:
I have a couple of questions.
1) What are some good bio (later bio/mech) strategies in TvT? I've heard of the Thorzain TvT style, but does anyone have a good build order for it, and/or some other good builds?
2) Does anyone have a good "2/2/2" build order for TvP? By 2/2/2, i mean 2 base tank push.
Thanks in advance!
Day9 Daily on Thorzain's TvT build: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-394-p1-terran-week-thorzain-s-tvt-5862954
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On May 09 2012 19:13 Qibla wrote:Anyone want to tell me where I went wrong in this TvP? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/18843Had ghosts, marine marauder medivac. Kept him on 3 base. Researched 3/3 and I was on 4 base, getting more. He just crushed every army I made.
Well you went wrong by typing GG... You had far better upgrades, more bases, a huge bank, his army wasn't doing anything, he only had 1 mining base and you just left the game..
Before that though you did make a lot of mistakes. You don't need to be so expansion happy, the objective is not to get a big economy, but to get a big game winning army. As a general rule of thumb if you are up on bases you should stop expanding.
Your army control is horrible and your micro is almost non existent.
Your first attack you try to drop him right where he is expecting it, you don't even try his front door. Later on you do the exact opposite, you do a frontal attack but don't make any use of your dropships at all. You pull back when you ought to commit and leave small forces to die when they could easily escape.
Your mind set seems to be get lots of bases and just throw lots of 1a attack waves at him. I'm sure this can work very well at your level, but you will need more rax if this is your plan. However this isn't going to be a viable strategy for long, you need to learn army control.
I'd suggest watching a bunch of pro games and paying attention to how they control their army when attacking. You won't have to be anywhere near that good, but you need to know what to aim for.
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On May 10 2012 03:13 MonDeW wrote:
I have a couple of questions.
1) What are some good bio (later bio/mech) strategies in TvT? I've heard of the Thorzain TvT style, but does anyone have a good build order for it, and/or some other good builds?
2) Does anyone have a good "2/2/2" build order for TvP? By 2/2/2, i mean 2 base tank push.
Thanks in advance!
http://drop.sc/170955 vs low masters (team game high level)
http://drop.sc/170954 vs 900pt masters protoss
http://drop.sc/175628 vs 131st GM
http://drop.sc/175629 pokebunny smurfing protoss
http://drop.sc/175630 vs 900pt masters LG protoss
http://drop.sc/173168 vs 925pt masters protoss
http://drop.sc/168801 vs 72nd GM
http://drop.sc/168800 vs 870 masters protoss.
It's gasless FE -> 3 gas -> 2 port cloakshee -> 3 rax 1 fac 2 port marine marauder banshee tank stim timing, third behind the push with 2 more rax, and 2 ebays dropped behind to transition into normal bio play off 3 base with delayed upgrades, if you so choose. It usually wins dead out with the push, or constant rally of banshee and or medic /marine/marauder and tanks.
Couple more, on wide open metalopolis.
http://drop.sc/175696 vs 3 gate pressure ->collasi 850 pt masters protoss
http://drop.sc/175697 vs 500 pt protoss (was skyTtSpAwN before name change) heavy gate unit count vs almost perfect push. Lose 2-3 banshees badly, but still hits like a hammer, with third behind it.
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Hi TL! I'm going to reroll from Z to T now and honestly don't have any idea from where to start learning playing T. Can u advice some solid builds to improve my mechanics for every mu? if u can provide replays or links to liquipedia i will appreciate it very much. thx ^^
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On May 10 2012 18:15 DropDead wrote:
Hi TL! I'm going to reroll from Z to T now and honestly don't have any idea from where to start learning playing T. Can u advice some solid builds to improve my mechanics for every mu? if u can provide replays or links to liquipedia i will appreciate it very much. thx ^^
this -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787
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On May 10 2012 18:37 Rimak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 18:15 DropDead wrote:
Hi TL! I'm going to reroll from Z to T now and honestly don't have any idea from where to start learning playing T. Can u advice some solid builds to improve my mechanics for every mu? if u can provide replays or links to liquipedia i will appreciate it very much. thx ^^ this -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787
Yeah I've watched it before, but he is going one build every mu it's kinda disappointing (( wanna play some diverse stuff and have fun. btw was a diamond Z 3 seasons ago (so i can play not only bronze lvl builds or 1-1-1 allins) but broke with sc2, now T seems a more interesting race for me.
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EPT
