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The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 220

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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 11:01:19
May 10 2012 11:00 GMT
#4381
--- Nuked ---
MonDeW
Profile Joined June 2011
Denmark369 Posts
May 10 2012 11:05 GMT
#4382
On May 10 2012 05:04 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 03:13 MonDeW wrote:
I have a couple of questions.
1) What are some good bio (later bio/mech) strategies in TvT? I've heard of the Thorzain TvT style, but does anyone have a good build order for it, and/or some other good builds?

2) Does anyone have a good "2/2/2" build order for TvP? By 2/2/2, i mean 2 base tank push.
Thanks in advance!

http://drop.sc/170955 vs low masters (team game high level)
http://drop.sc/170954 vs 900pt masters protoss
http://drop.sc/175628 vs 131st GM
http://drop.sc/175629 pokebunny smurfing protoss
http://drop.sc/175630 vs 900pt masters LG protoss
http://drop.sc/173168 vs 925pt masters protoss
http://drop.sc/168801 vs 72nd GM
http://drop.sc/168800 vs 870 masters protoss.

It's gasless FE -> 3 gas -> 2 port cloakshee -> 3 rax 1 fac 2 port marine marauder banshee tank stim timing, third behind the push with 2 more rax, and 2 ebays dropped behind to transition into normal bio play off 3 base with delayed upgrades, if you so choose. It usually wins dead out with the push, or constant rally of banshee and or medic /marine/marauder and tanks.

Couple more, on wide open metalopolis.
http://drop.sc/175696 vs 3 gate pressure ->collasi 850 pt masters protoss
http://drop.sc/175697 vs 500 pt protoss (was skyTtSpAwN before name change) heavy gate unit count vs almost perfect push. Lose 2-3 banshees badly, but still hits like a hammer, with third behind it.


Thanks a lot, will try one of your builds in a minute! Thanks for the effort!
dotDash
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden142 Posts
May 10 2012 11:07 GMT
#4383
On May 10 2012 20:00 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 18:50 DropDead wrote:
On May 10 2012 18:37 Rimak wrote:
On May 10 2012 18:15 DropDead wrote:
Hi TL! I'm going to reroll from Z to T now and honestly don't have any idea from where to start learning playing T. Can u advice some solid builds to improve my mechanics for every mu? if u can provide replays or links to liquipedia i will appreciate it very much. thx ^^

this -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787


Yeah I've watched it before, but he is going one build every mu it's kinda disappointing (( wanna play some diverse stuff and have fun. btw was a diamond Z 3 seasons ago (so i can play not only bronze lvl builds or 1-1-1 allins) but broke with sc2, now T seems a more interesting race for me.


You should definitely learn one build per matchup properly before going for diversity. I think it makes learning the race go faster.


I agree with this guy. Ive been playing since beta and been trying a lot of BOs. I would say you benefit most from mastering ONE BO per MU first. You do need to find one you like though...

Cheers
Dan
Feel free to tune in to my stream! Highmaster T aiming for GM with commentary! http://video.gamecreds.com/1sy1sfohwo31n/channel/dotDash-T-going-for-GM
HeroMystic
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1217 Posts
May 10 2012 15:53 GMT
#4384
I feel the need to ask about this.

http://www.twitch.tv/colqxc/b/317688602

Go to 4:27:00 and watch until 4:38:45. Throughout the game, qxc has sniped expansions, expanded himself, and got macro orbitals. However, Z managed to get this seemingly impossible composition of Broodlord/Infestor/Queen with Ultras and Zerglings sprinkled in. No matter how much QXC did, the composition seemed impossible to kill off. Even with a much lower economy, Zerg couldn't be killed.

My question to everyone here is: How in the world do you take out a lategame composition like that? The chatroom, QXC's friends, and myself were more or less racking our brains over this. QXC summarized that he should go mass ravens, but the transition to that, for me, seems to be very hard to make. If QXC wasn't sniping expansions with his godly multitasking skills he would've been rolled over much sooner.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
May 10 2012 16:38 GMT
#4385
Ok, I'm a relatively high Bronze Player (IMO) and I'm unsure of what to do late game. Mainly due to the fact that matches at my level never actually reach there.

Now, I know my macro isn't great, and micro could use some work; but could anyone take the time to take a look at this replay? Would be a great help!

http://drop.sc/176088

As you can see from the replay, I try to trade with his armies and drop a little but when it comes to the end he suddenly steamrolls me with a couple archons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling OP or IMBA, I don't actually care what is imba etc. I believe I was just unprepared for a situation I've never been in before.

Again, thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

~Targe
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
DelugeSC
Profile Joined December 2011
United States96 Posts
May 10 2012 17:09 GMT
#4386
Hey everyone. I'm a low Diamond Terran and struggling to get consistent wins against Protoss using a 1 Rax FE into 3 Rax push. If I move up to attack and the Protoss doesn't have enough units to hold, I'll win. If he does have enough units, that means his economy will be worse; but I can't just let him sit there so what should I do?

I can load up the 2 Medivacs that I planned on pushing with and drop in the back, but typically he'll just shift some units over and defend. I usually throw down a 3rd and go home but I find that with no harassment or pressure he'll quickly regain a lead with chrono. What can I do without just retreating my force and hoping I can macro better? Drop 1 Medivac and push up into main with the other? I'm at a loss.
kranten
Profile Joined January 2012
Netherlands236 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 17:37:13
May 10 2012 17:32 GMT
#4387
On May 11 2012 01:38 Targe wrote:
Ok, I'm a relatively high Bronze Player (IMO) and I'm unsure of what to do late game. Mainly due to the fact that matches at my level never actually reach there.

Now, I know my macro isn't great, and micro could use some work; but could anyone take the time to take a look at this replay? Would be a great help!

http://drop.sc/176088

As you can see from the replay, I try to trade with his armies and drop a little but when it comes to the end he suddenly steamrolls me with a couple archons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling OP or IMBA, I don't actually care what is imba etc. I believe I was just unprepared for a situation I've never been in before.

Again, thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

~Targe


You have to focus on scv production and economy, you had 37 at 10 minutes, when you could have had 50 (it's pretty hard though). You also didn't saturate your 3rd and 4th base. This was because you didn't have scvs but in case you didn't know: you'll want 16 scvs on minerals per base.

I suggest you take a look at this youtube channel: (there's a TL thread too but I couldn't find it http://www.youtube.com/user/filtersc

If you're close to those benchmarks you'll easily roll every protoss in bronze.
Vulture174
Profile Joined February 2011
United States74 Posts
May 10 2012 17:48 GMT
#4388
My question is for tvt I have been exploring pure bio mmm and have been having trouble with mech players that turtle supper hard with sensor towers and missile turrets to completely shut down my drop play. This is especially hard on some of the newer maps like korhal compound. Then they move out with a massive army of 20 tanks or so that I just can't engage. My question is if a player is turtling this hard should I just transition to marine tank myself or maybe sky terran? I am not sure what to do. (I am a plat lvl random player)
Have a cookie!
Maragor
Profile Joined September 2011
United States16 Posts
May 10 2012 17:51 GMT
#4389
Anyone mind letting me know the viability of doing SuperNova's 2/2/2 push in TvP? I am low plat and I like the way the build works. While I know it is essentially the 1/1/1 and therefore is almost always an all-in, I still feel like this is the build I want to get used to in that match-up to at least work more on my macro as it requires less micro to effectively use this build.
The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
May 10 2012 18:06 GMT
#4390
On May 11 2012 02:32 kranten wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 01:38 Targe wrote:
Ok, I'm a relatively high Bronze Player (IMO) and I'm unsure of what to do late game. Mainly due to the fact that matches at my level never actually reach there.

Now, I know my macro isn't great, and micro could use some work; but could anyone take the time to take a look at this replay? Would be a great help!

http://drop.sc/176088

As you can see from the replay, I try to trade with his armies and drop a little but when it comes to the end he suddenly steamrolls me with a couple archons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling OP or IMBA, I don't actually care what is imba etc. I believe I was just unprepared for a situation I've never been in before.

Again, thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

~Targe


You have to focus on scv production and economy, you had 37 at 10 minutes, when you could have had 50 (it's pretty hard though). You also didn't saturate your 3rd and 4th base. This was because you didn't have scvs but in case you didn't know: you'll want 16 scvs on minerals per base.

I suggest you take a look at this youtube channel: (there's a TL thread too but I couldn't find it http://www.youtube.com/user/filtersc

If you're close to those benchmarks you'll easily roll every protoss in bronze.


Thanks for the advice, the whole SCV thing is actually one of the things I've been working on (And I've been using that guide you just linked ! Theyre really helpful and Ive been working on those benchmarks.)
Thing is, when practicing, I can hit the benchmark, however when I get into a proper game, I slip. I guess just more practice is needed, one of the reasons I started taking it to more competitive games, to try and get into the habit of keeping the SCVs up even when under pressure.

16 SCVs? I'm guessing this is referring to more late game? As early game I thought it was in the mid high twenties?

Thanks again for the help.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Maragor
Profile Joined September 2011
United States16 Posts
May 10 2012 18:10 GMT
#4391
You essentially have 22 scvs at each base. 3 on each gas and 16 on the minerals.
The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.
padfoota
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Taiwan1571 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 18:35:02
May 10 2012 18:22 GMT
#4392
Alright question for you guys! I cant really start a discussion on this as I suck at organization and I cannot really give replays and VODS to support, but here it is. It involves PartinG's PvT and what I think is so successful about it. This is a copy paste from something i pasted in a protoss thread.


Both sides go FE, and from the terran point of view everything is normal - lets say 3rax, double gas, standard factory, +1 timing, starport. When the medevacs come out itll be around the 10th minute mark, which is also when toss is either rushing collosus and has at least 1 out, or is going for high templar and has archives out. The terran will react very differently in either cases that involves heavily on the starport. If collosus tech is scouted, terran will immediately stop medevac production (has only 2, at most 4 now) and start pumping vikings furiously.

THIS, is where PartinG's strategy comes in - He only gets 2 collis, stalkers in his main to prevent drop, two obs to constantly scout, and with good forcefields and decision makings he can hold off any attack terran can do at this point. After the two collosi and knowing terran had seen them, he immediately goes for high templar tech, stops all gas usage other than for upgrades or high templars. By the time the terran realizes this, viking count would be too high, and not enough medevacs would be out to deal with the storms that follow. Supply would already be in the 180-200s, preventing terran from being able to get more medevacs out, ghosts are not out, and with feedback, the terran will have LITTLE TO NO MEDEVACS to deal with the storm. Perhaps in the game against Mvp this isnt as apparent since his army was caught completely out of position, had stimmed twice, and only one medevac left to heal - which in any situation will and did become a total disaster for the terran

But from my point of view, as a terran, the mindgame presented here is disgusting. The collosi essentially becomes the bait, forcing a bad composition from the terran, which is already as fragile as glass when it comes to late game TvP.

You can argue the terran can burn scans/float factories in. I can argue that protoss can hide tech and units until needed, and easily snipe the factory with the 10ish stalkers at home (perhaps there is a magic number). I can also argue that the burning scans isnt viable when terran cannot deal any visible damage against a turtling protoss who knows how to defend. On that particular map, the only damage dealt was perhaps a delayed 3rd base. Drops were impossible as the main was small, 10 stalkers could easily prevent any drop play. The ramp also becomes the perfect choke for 2 collosi to burn through shit. In this situation - terran can only get a third and use all the money and mules possible to get a supply advantage - which, even with Mvp's famed macro, just cannot happen (supplies were dead even).


TL;DR: PartinG's mindgame - 1 gate FE, rush collosus, terran sees it and spams vikings, PartinG stops collosus and immediately switches to HT tech knowing terran will have little medevacs and no ghosts to deal with them. By the time terran realizes it itll be too late. Also, during engagement, the little medevacs become no medevacs with simple feedbacks, making storm so much stronger.

How do we deal with this properly? The vikings can be used for DPS (their ground damage is pretty fucking good anyways) if it does become a late game situation and we couldnt scout for the tech switch, and good spread + group micro can prevent storm from dealing too much damage, but with no medevacs to heal the storm damage will almost be permanent on the bioball. Since itll be a three base protoss he can just constant warp in zealots and keep attacking, which at this point would be in the terran natural, and with no medevacs, terran will just fall apart even with good micro.
Stop procrastinating
Kvassten
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden159 Posts
May 10 2012 18:26 GMT
#4393
On May 11 2012 01:38 Targe wrote:
Ok, I'm a relatively high Bronze Player (IMO) and I'm unsure of what to do late game. Mainly due to the fact that matches at my level never actually reach there.

Now, I know my macro isn't great, and micro could use some work; but could anyone take the time to take a look at this replay? Would be a great help!

http://drop.sc/176088

As you can see from the replay, I try to trade with his armies and drop a little but when it comes to the end he suddenly steamrolls me with a couple archons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling OP or IMBA, I don't actually care what is imba etc. I believe I was just unprepared for a situation I've never been in before.

Again, thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

~Targe



Your skill level is much higher than bronze, at least mid silver or even high silver so you are doing a great job

As Kranten sais, focus a bit more on your macro.

I don't know if your factory add-on was a mistake or if you had a plan building siege tanks for some reasons. Standard build would be to go for reactor on your factory and build a starport when you start your reactor so you can switch them later on.

Your ghost academy is too early imo, you should build an extra engineering bay and an armory instead of that ghost academy.
zezamer
Profile Joined March 2011
Finland5701 Posts
May 10 2012 18:41 GMT
#4394
On May 11 2012 03:22 padfoota wrote:
TL;DR: PartinG's mindgame - 1 gate FE, rush collosus, terran sees it and spams vikings, PartinG stops collosus and immediately switches to HT tech knowing terran will have little medevacs and no ghosts to deal with them. By the time terran realizes it itll be too late. Also, during engagement, the little medevacs become no medevacs with simple feedbacks, making storm so much stronger.

How do we deal with this properly? The vikings can be used for DPS (their ground damage is pretty fucking good anyways) if it does become a late game situation and we couldnt scout for the tech switch, and good spread + group micro can prevent storm from dealing too much damage, but with no medevacs to heal the storm damage will almost be permanent on the bioball. Since itll be a three base protoss he can just constant warp in zealots and keep attacking, which at this point would be in the terran natural, and with no medevacs, terran will just fall apart even with good micro.


Mvp kinda countered it in game 1. Forgg also did the same thing in his game against some protoss couple days ago.

If terran 2 bases heavily instead of expanding, there's a timing where terran has way more units, enough vikings to take out the colossus easily and storm isn't ready yet.

Like if you look at the vod, mvp has 152 supply to 133. 6 vikings to 2 colossus. He didn't even need to bring the scv:s to crush that.Scv:s were late anyway and mvp was still up 50 supply after the fight.
padfoota
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Taiwan1571 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 18:49:44
May 10 2012 18:43 GMT
#4395
On May 11 2012 03:41 zezamer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 03:22 padfoota wrote:
TL;DR: PartinG's mindgame - 1 gate FE, rush collosus, terran sees it and spams vikings, PartinG stops collosus and immediately switches to HT tech knowing terran will have little medevacs and no ghosts to deal with them. By the time terran realizes it itll be too late. Also, during engagement, the little medevacs become no medevacs with simple feedbacks, making storm so much stronger.

How do we deal with this properly? The vikings can be used for DPS (their ground damage is pretty fucking good anyways) if it does become a late game situation and we couldnt scout for the tech switch, and good spread + group micro can prevent storm from dealing too much damage, but with no medevacs to heal the storm damage will almost be permanent on the bioball. Since itll be a three base protoss he can just constant warp in zealots and keep attacking, which at this point would be in the terran natural, and with no medevacs, terran will just fall apart even with good micro.


Mvp kinda countered it in game 1. Forgg also did the same thing in his game against some protoss couple days ago.

If terran 2 bases heavily instead of expanding, there's a timing where terran has way more units, enough vikings to take out the colossus easily and storm isn't ready yet.

Like if you look at the vod, mvp has 152 supply to 133. 6 vikings to 2 colossus. He didn't even need to bring the scv:s to crush that.Scv:s were late anyway and mvp was still up 50 supply after the fight.


But from what I heard (I cant watch the vods Q_Q) PartinG seriously fucked up his forcefields, and not only that, but he moved out when he should be turtling during that time and ended up losing supply and warp in time. On game three it was the same thing but supplies were dead even.
Stop procrastinating
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
May 10 2012 19:00 GMT
#4396
On May 11 2012 03:43 padfoota wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 03:41 zezamer wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:22 padfoota wrote:
TL;DR: PartinG's mindgame - 1 gate FE, rush collosus, terran sees it and spams vikings, PartinG stops collosus and immediately switches to HT tech knowing terran will have little medevacs and no ghosts to deal with them. By the time terran realizes it itll be too late. Also, during engagement, the little medevacs become no medevacs with simple feedbacks, making storm so much stronger.

How do we deal with this properly? The vikings can be used for DPS (their ground damage is pretty fucking good anyways) if it does become a late game situation and we couldnt scout for the tech switch, and good spread + group micro can prevent storm from dealing too much damage, but with no medevacs to heal the storm damage will almost be permanent on the bioball. Since itll be a three base protoss he can just constant warp in zealots and keep attacking, which at this point would be in the terran natural, and with no medevacs, terran will just fall apart even with good micro.


Mvp kinda countered it in game 1. Forgg also did the same thing in his game against some protoss couple days ago.

If terran 2 bases heavily instead of expanding, there's a timing where terran has way more units, enough vikings to take out the colossus easily and storm isn't ready yet.

Like if you look at the vod, mvp has 152 supply to 133. 6 vikings to 2 colossus. He didn't even need to bring the scv:s to crush that.Scv:s were late anyway and mvp was still up 50 supply after the fight.


But from what I heard (I cant watch the vods Q_Q) PartinG seriously fucked up his forcefields, and not only that, but he moved out when he should be turtling during that time and ended up losing supply and warp in time. On game three it was the same thing but supplies were dead even.

his FF's were fucked up _after_ he moved out when he should've been turtling anyways



how late does parting take his 3rd with this style anyways?

Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
zezamer
Profile Joined March 2011
Finland5701 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 19:14:06
May 10 2012 19:13 GMT
#4397
On May 11 2012 03:43 padfoota wrote:
But from what I heard (I cant watch the vods Q_Q) PartinG seriously fucked up his forcefields, and not only that, but he moved out when he should be turtling during that time and ended up losing supply and warp in time. On game three it was the same thing but supplies were dead even.


52 marines, 11 marauders, 3 medivacs, 5 vikings, + scv:s , 1-1
vs 19 zealots, 2 colossi, 8 stalkers , 3 sentries, 1-1
storm 1/4th done

Imo Mvp:s army would have beat parting's no matter where and how good Parting's forcefields were, especially if he would have tanked zealots with scv:s.

But yea, idk

In game 3 Mvp expanded relatively fast so Parting was able to get storm+ 3rd base up and they were both close to maxed. Mvp accidently split his army up and got stomped.
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
May 10 2012 19:25 GMT
#4398
What openers are you guys using TvZ now with the queen buff? Still reactor hellion?
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
May 10 2012 19:44 GMT
#4399
On May 11 2012 04:25 IMoperator wrote:
What openers are you guys using TvZ now with the queen buff? Still reactor hellion?



Havent played yet. Delayed reactor hellion should work, because you can still deny creep spread, but youre probably gonna have to open into 3oc to keep up with zerg now, since they're free to drone, and theyll probably have some extra queens for more creep.
In Mushi we trust
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 19:48:03
May 10 2012 19:47 GMT
#4400
On May 11 2012 04:13 zezamer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 03:43 padfoota wrote:
But from what I heard (I cant watch the vods Q_Q) PartinG seriously fucked up his forcefields, and not only that, but he moved out when he should be turtling during that time and ended up losing supply and warp in time. On game three it was the same thing but supplies were dead even.


52 marines, 11 marauders, 3 medivacs, 5 vikings, + scv:s , 1-1
vs 19 zealots, 2 colossi, 8 stalkers , 3 sentries, 1-1
storm 1/4th done

Imo Mvp:s army would have beat parting's no matter where and how good Parting's forcefields were, especially if he would have tanked zealots with scv:s.

But yea, idk

In game 3 Mvp expanded relatively fast so Parting was able to get storm+ 3rd base up and they were both close to maxed. Mvp accidently split his army up and got stomped.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336484

You tried cheesing in Set 1

Parting had fewer units than expected. The thought of pulling SCVs came to me and I made sure by scouting that it would work.



On May 11 2012 04:25 IMoperator wrote:
What openers are you guys using TvZ now with the queen buff? Still reactor hellion?



I might as well switch to the MMA build...
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
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