EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 220
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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MonDeW
Denmark369 Posts
On May 10 2012 05:04 iAmJeffReY wrote: http://drop.sc/170955 vs low masters (team game high level) http://drop.sc/170954 vs 900pt masters protoss http://drop.sc/175628 vs 131st GM http://drop.sc/175629 pokebunny smurfing protoss http://drop.sc/175630 vs 900pt masters LG protoss http://drop.sc/173168 vs 925pt masters protoss http://drop.sc/168801 vs 72nd GM http://drop.sc/168800 vs 870 masters protoss. It's gasless FE -> 3 gas -> 2 port cloakshee -> 3 rax 1 fac 2 port marine marauder banshee tank stim timing, third behind the push with 2 more rax, and 2 ebays dropped behind to transition into normal bio play off 3 base with delayed upgrades, if you so choose. It usually wins dead out with the push, or constant rally of banshee and or medic /marine/marauder and tanks. Couple more, on wide open metalopolis. http://drop.sc/175696 vs 3 gate pressure ->collasi 850 pt masters protoss http://drop.sc/175697 vs 500 pt protoss (was skyTtSpAwN before name change) heavy gate unit count vs almost perfect push. Lose 2-3 banshees badly, but still hits like a hammer, with third behind it. Thanks a lot, will try one of your builds in a minute! Thanks for the effort! | ||
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dotDash
Sweden142 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:00 monkybone wrote: You should definitely learn one build per matchup properly before going for diversity. I think it makes learning the race go faster. I agree with this guy. Ive been playing since beta and been trying a lot of BOs. I would say you benefit most from mastering ONE BO per MU first. You do need to find one you like though... Cheers Dan | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/colqxc/b/317688602 Go to 4:27:00 and watch until 4:38:45. Throughout the game, qxc has sniped expansions, expanded himself, and got macro orbitals. However, Z managed to get this seemingly impossible composition of Broodlord/Infestor/Queen with Ultras and Zerglings sprinkled in. No matter how much QXC did, the composition seemed impossible to kill off. Even with a much lower economy, Zerg couldn't be killed. My question to everyone here is: How in the world do you take out a lategame composition like that? The chatroom, QXC's friends, and myself were more or less racking our brains over this. QXC summarized that he should go mass ravens, but the transition to that, for me, seems to be very hard to make. If QXC wasn't sniping expansions with his godly multitasking skills he would've been rolled over much sooner. | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
Now, I know my macro isn't great, and micro could use some work; but could anyone take the time to take a look at this replay? Would be a great help! http://drop.sc/176088 As you can see from the replay, I try to trade with his armies and drop a little but when it comes to the end he suddenly steamrolls me with a couple archons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling OP or IMBA, I don't actually care what is imba etc. I believe I was just unprepared for a situation I've never been in before. Again, thanks in advance to anyone who can help. ~Targe | ||
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DelugeSC
United States96 Posts
I can load up the 2 Medivacs that I planned on pushing with and drop in the back, but typically he'll just shift some units over and defend. I usually throw down a 3rd and go home but I find that with no harassment or pressure he'll quickly regain a lead with chrono. What can I do without just retreating my force and hoping I can macro better? Drop 1 Medivac and push up into main with the other? I'm at a loss. | ||
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kranten
Netherlands236 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:38 Targe wrote: Ok, I'm a relatively high Bronze Player (IMO) and I'm unsure of what to do late game. Mainly due to the fact that matches at my level never actually reach there. Now, I know my macro isn't great, and micro could use some work; but could anyone take the time to take a look at this replay? Would be a great help! http://drop.sc/176088 As you can see from the replay, I try to trade with his armies and drop a little but when it comes to the end he suddenly steamrolls me with a couple archons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling OP or IMBA, I don't actually care what is imba etc. I believe I was just unprepared for a situation I've never been in before. Again, thanks in advance to anyone who can help. ~Targe You have to focus on scv production and economy, you had 37 at 10 minutes, when you could have had 50 (it's pretty hard though). You also didn't saturate your 3rd and 4th base. This was because you didn't have scvs but in case you didn't know: you'll want 16 scvs on minerals per base. I suggest you take a look at this youtube channel: (there's a TL thread too but I couldn't find it http://www.youtube.com/user/filtersc If you're close to those benchmarks you'll easily roll every protoss in bronze. | ||
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Vulture174
United States74 Posts
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Maragor
United States16 Posts
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 11 2012 02:32 kranten wrote: You have to focus on scv production and economy, you had 37 at 10 minutes, when you could have had 50 (it's pretty hard though). You also didn't saturate your 3rd and 4th base. This was because you didn't have scvs but in case you didn't know: you'll want 16 scvs on minerals per base. I suggest you take a look at this youtube channel: (there's a TL thread too but I couldn't find it http://www.youtube.com/user/filtersc If you're close to those benchmarks you'll easily roll every protoss in bronze. Thanks for the advice, the whole SCV thing is actually one of the things I've been working on (And I've been using that guide you just linked ! Theyre really helpful and Ive been working on those benchmarks.) Thing is, when practicing, I can hit the benchmark, however when I get into a proper game, I slip. I guess just more practice is needed, one of the reasons I started taking it to more competitive games, to try and get into the habit of keeping the SCVs up even when under pressure. 16 SCVs? I'm guessing this is referring to more late game? As early game I thought it was in the mid high twenties? Thanks again for the help. | ||
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Maragor
United States16 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
Both sides go FE, and from the terran point of view everything is normal - lets say 3rax, double gas, standard factory, +1 timing, starport. When the medevacs come out itll be around the 10th minute mark, which is also when toss is either rushing collosus and has at least 1 out, or is going for high templar and has archives out. The terran will react very differently in either cases that involves heavily on the starport. If collosus tech is scouted, terran will immediately stop medevac production (has only 2, at most 4 now) and start pumping vikings furiously. THIS, is where PartinG's strategy comes in - He only gets 2 collis, stalkers in his main to prevent drop, two obs to constantly scout, and with good forcefields and decision makings he can hold off any attack terran can do at this point. After the two collosi and knowing terran had seen them, he immediately goes for high templar tech, stops all gas usage other than for upgrades or high templars. By the time the terran realizes this, viking count would be too high, and not enough medevacs would be out to deal with the storms that follow. Supply would already be in the 180-200s, preventing terran from being able to get more medevacs out, ghosts are not out, and with feedback, the terran will have LITTLE TO NO MEDEVACS to deal with the storm. Perhaps in the game against Mvp this isnt as apparent since his army was caught completely out of position, had stimmed twice, and only one medevac left to heal - which in any situation will and did become a total disaster for the terran But from my point of view, as a terran, the mindgame presented here is disgusting. The collosi essentially becomes the bait, forcing a bad composition from the terran, which is already as fragile as glass when it comes to late game TvP. You can argue the terran can burn scans/float factories in. I can argue that protoss can hide tech and units until needed, and easily snipe the factory with the 10ish stalkers at home (perhaps there is a magic number). I can also argue that the burning scans isnt viable when terran cannot deal any visible damage against a turtling protoss who knows how to defend. On that particular map, the only damage dealt was perhaps a delayed 3rd base. Drops were impossible as the main was small, 10 stalkers could easily prevent any drop play. The ramp also becomes the perfect choke for 2 collosi to burn through shit. In this situation - terran can only get a third and use all the money and mules possible to get a supply advantage - which, even with Mvp's famed macro, just cannot happen (supplies were dead even). TL;DR: PartinG's mindgame - 1 gate FE, rush collosus, terran sees it and spams vikings, PartinG stops collosus and immediately switches to HT tech knowing terran will have little medevacs and no ghosts to deal with them. By the time terran realizes it itll be too late. Also, during engagement, the little medevacs become no medevacs with simple feedbacks, making storm so much stronger. How do we deal with this properly? The vikings can be used for DPS (their ground damage is pretty fucking good anyways) if it does become a late game situation and we couldnt scout for the tech switch, and good spread + group micro can prevent storm from dealing too much damage, but with no medevacs to heal the storm damage will almost be permanent on the bioball. Since itll be a three base protoss he can just constant warp in zealots and keep attacking, which at this point would be in the terran natural, and with no medevacs, terran will just fall apart even with good micro. | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:38 Targe wrote: Ok, I'm a relatively high Bronze Player (IMO) and I'm unsure of what to do late game. Mainly due to the fact that matches at my level never actually reach there. Now, I know my macro isn't great, and micro could use some work; but could anyone take the time to take a look at this replay? Would be a great help! http://drop.sc/176088 As you can see from the replay, I try to trade with his armies and drop a little but when it comes to the end he suddenly steamrolls me with a couple archons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling OP or IMBA, I don't actually care what is imba etc. I believe I was just unprepared for a situation I've never been in before. Again, thanks in advance to anyone who can help. ~Targe Your skill level is much higher than bronze, at least mid silver or even high silver so you are doing a great job  As Kranten sais, focus a bit more on your macro. I don't know if your factory add-on was a mistake or if you had a plan building siege tanks for some reasons. Standard build would be to go for reactor on your factory and build a starport when you start your reactor so you can switch them later on. Your ghost academy is too early imo, you should build an extra engineering bay and an armory instead of that ghost academy. | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:22 padfoota wrote: TL;DR: PartinG's mindgame - 1 gate FE, rush collosus, terran sees it and spams vikings, PartinG stops collosus and immediately switches to HT tech knowing terran will have little medevacs and no ghosts to deal with them. By the time terran realizes it itll be too late. Also, during engagement, the little medevacs become no medevacs with simple feedbacks, making storm so much stronger. How do we deal with this properly? The vikings can be used for DPS (their ground damage is pretty fucking good anyways) if it does become a late game situation and we couldnt scout for the tech switch, and good spread + group micro can prevent storm from dealing too much damage, but with no medevacs to heal the storm damage will almost be permanent on the bioball. Since itll be a three base protoss he can just constant warp in zealots and keep attacking, which at this point would be in the terran natural, and with no medevacs, terran will just fall apart even with good micro. Mvp kinda countered it in game 1. Forgg also did the same thing in his game against some protoss couple days ago. If terran 2 bases heavily instead of expanding, there's a timing where terran has way more units, enough vikings to take out the colossus easily and storm isn't ready yet. Like if you look at the vod, mvp has 152 supply to 133. 6 vikings to 2 colossus. He didn't even need to bring the scv:s to crush that.Scv:s were late anyway and mvp was still up 50 supply after the fight. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:41 zezamer wrote: Mvp kinda countered it in game 1. Forgg also did the same thing in his game against some protoss couple days ago. If terran 2 bases heavily instead of expanding, there's a timing where terran has way more units, enough vikings to take out the colossus easily and storm isn't ready yet. Like if you look at the vod, mvp has 152 supply to 133. 6 vikings to 2 colossus. He didn't even need to bring the scv:s to crush that.Scv:s were late anyway and mvp was still up 50 supply after the fight. But from what I heard (I cant watch the vods Q_Q) PartinG seriously fucked up his forcefields, and not only that, but he moved out when he should be turtling during that time and ended up losing supply and warp in time. On game three it was the same thing but supplies were dead even. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:43 padfoota wrote: But from what I heard (I cant watch the vods Q_Q) PartinG seriously fucked up his forcefields, and not only that, but he moved out when he should be turtling during that time and ended up losing supply and warp in time. On game three it was the same thing but supplies were dead even. his FF's were fucked up _after_ he moved out when he should've been turtling anyways how late does parting take his 3rd with this style anyways? | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:43 padfoota wrote: But from what I heard (I cant watch the vods Q_Q) PartinG seriously fucked up his forcefields, and not only that, but he moved out when he should be turtling during that time and ended up losing supply and warp in time. On game three it was the same thing but supplies were dead even. 52 marines, 11 marauders, 3 medivacs, 5 vikings, + scv:s , 1-1 vs 19 zealots, 2 colossi, 8 stalkers , 3 sentries, 1-1 storm 1/4th done Imo Mvp:s army would have beat parting's no matter where and how good Parting's forcefields were, especially if he would have tanked zealots with scv:s. But yea, idk In game 3 Mvp expanded relatively fast so Parting was able to get storm+ 3rd base up and they were both close to maxed. Mvp accidently split his army up and got stomped. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:25 IMoperator wrote: What openers are you guys using TvZ now with the queen buff? Still reactor hellion? Havent played yet. Delayed reactor hellion should work, because you can still deny creep spread, but youre probably gonna have to open into 3oc to keep up with zerg now, since they're free to drone, and theyll probably have some extra queens for more creep. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:13 zezamer wrote: 52 marines, 11 marauders, 3 medivacs, 5 vikings, + scv:s , 1-1 vs 19 zealots, 2 colossi, 8 stalkers , 3 sentries, 1-1 storm 1/4th done Imo Mvp:s army would have beat parting's no matter where and how good Parting's forcefields were, especially if he would have tanked zealots with scv:s. But yea, idk In game 3 Mvp expanded relatively fast so Parting was able to get storm+ 3rd base up and they were both close to maxed. Mvp accidently split his army up and got stomped. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336484 You tried cheesing in Set 1 Parting had fewer units than expected. The thought of pulling SCVs came to me and I made sure by scouting that it would work. On May 11 2012 04:25 IMoperator wrote: What openers are you guys using TvZ now with the queen buff? Still reactor hellion? I might as well switch to the MMA build... | ||
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