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flyingkebab_
2 Posts
http://drop.sc/154909 I think my opener is not good at all or perfectible. But i don't know why with 'ok' trade i can't kill the zerg before he take all the map. My micro is really really bad, i don't know how can i improve and how should i take fight in every match up and i feel i need a very good micro as terran or i ll loose. If u can explain me what i did wrong in this game. (maybe i don't hv to move on natural b1/b2/b3 zone but on b4/b5/b6 zone ?) thanks | ||
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rebuffering
Canada2436 Posts
O and making 6 hellions at a time that early into a game is intense, almost safe in a weird way. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
Currently Im opening 12 rax 13 gas etc etc, factory immediately + 2nd gas, when factory done reactor on rax and throw down starport, constant hellions from factory, make double vikings and get a techlab on rax for factory blueflame later. I know this build is mainly for map control, counters any banshee opener hard, and if scouted something weird can easily open banshees instead, also has option to land vikings/drop hellions in opponent main. Also rapes any unsafe opener as vikings are so damn good on the ground early on. Since Im getting blueflame, it feels like my option is to quickly get tanks out in the field while i still have map control, and just siege us somewhere nice and cosy against opponent while I safely expand. Id like a small tips/discussion on how it works, how it transitions out and such... | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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TheQforce
United Kingdom48 Posts
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
On April 08 2012 16:04 Sajaki wrote: Hi quick question here, why dont people go marine tank in TvP, specifically a midgame or lategame scenario? Is there a magic unit comp that is ultra effective vs it? The splash damage from the tanks makes chargelots destroy that unit comp. When playing mech in TvT is it generally worth it to suicide hellions into the mineral line of a PF expansion assuming it has a decent scv saturation? Situational, I prefer to be pretty pigheaded about using my hellions and hellions are reasonably cheap. You can use hold position behind the mineral line to make your hellions shoot the scvs instead of running up and attacking the PF. | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On April 08 2012 16:08 Hypemeup wrote: The splash damage from the tanks makes chargelots destroy that unit comp. Surely the protoss cant go just chargelots. He must have some supporting units. Pure zealot gets raped by this army so hard its not even funny (at least army vs army other factors aside,) So, immortals? Colossus? Whats the big threat? asking cuz im doing some testing in a unit tester so i can get an ideal comp, then take it to ladder tomorrow! | ||
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Inty
United States99 Posts
On April 08 2012 16:04 Sajaki wrote: Hi quick question here, why dont people go marine tank in TvP, specifically a midgame or lategame scenario? Is there a magic unit comp that is ultra effective vs it? The only way that I have seen people use a marine tank composition is as a mixing in banshees or medivacs and then transition into bio. The build(non all in one anyways) is basically a 1 rax fe into fast gas 1-1-1 making 3-5 tanks and marines. The reason why marine tank is not viable later on is due to multiple reasons. 1. You upgrades will be way to spread out you would need bio ups mech ups and air ups(air to deal with colossi) 2. When chargelots start attacking your army you tanks will also splash your marines added up with any aoe the toss has and your bio dies a lot faster. 3. Tanks are not effective against archons since they are not armored and thus deal only 35 dmg to them. 4. Tanks take up a lot of gas which detracts from your ghosts/vikings/medivac count which helps deal with protoss splash So early game marine tank is quite strong as ups are too big yet and little if no splash but as the game drags on tank become less and less effective and your left with marines and/or marauders and little to no ghosts/vikings/medivacs since you are spending a lot of gas on tanks and their ups. | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On April 08 2012 16:39 Inty wrote: The only way that I have seen people use a marine tank composition is as a mixing in banshees or medivacs and then transition into bio. The build(non all in one anyways) is basically a 1 rax fe into fast gas 1-1-1 making 3-5 tanks and marines. The reason why marine tank is not viable later on is due to multiple reasons. 1. You upgrades will be way to spread out you would need bio ups mech ups and air ups(air to deal with colossi) 2. When chargelots start attacking your army you tanks will also splash your marines added up with any aoe the toss has and your bio dies a lot faster. 3. Tanks are not effective against archons since they are not armored and thus deal only 35 dmg to them. 4. Tanks take up a lot of gas which detracts from your ghosts/vikings/medivac count which helps deal with protoss splash So early game marine tank is quite strong as ups are too big yet and little if no splash but as the game drags on tank become less and less effective and your left with marines and/or marauders and little to no ghosts/vikings/medivacs since you are spending a lot of gas on tanks and their ups. Ok. Here are some things I am testing, and how i am gonna try and work around what you listed above: 1) Splitting money between bio mech and air is quite expensive, but if we are getting a good number of siege tanks, why exactly are we going vikings in the first place? Tanks do bonus damage to colossus. Tanks outrange colossus. Tanks kill kill things that ARENT colossus. 2) Focus fire everything that isnt a chargelot. If they have only chargelots (similar supply) u can literally unsiege and Amove. Alternately, u can target fire the edges of the zealot cluster, and stim + click behind tanks allowing them to buffer. 3) This build can easily include Ghosts as well, since you are redirecting the gas you need from vikings and marauders into tanks, you can also get away with LESS ghosts because siegetanks overlap the ghost in its ability to snipe HTs. 4) Refer above. The army comp i am referring to is 130 supply (since this mimics a real game) with 30 supply in 10 siege tanks, 10 supply in 5 medivacs, and 90 supply in marines. EDIT: Regarding upgrades, 3 3 Protoss vs 3 3 Bio Terran and +3 vehicle weps | ||
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StaN.de
Germany50 Posts
I am wondering which exact BO MarineKingPrime was playing in his TvP matches yesterday in the GTSL Final - Does anyone know about it or can share a replay? I havent found any replay from yesterday so far. He started with gasless FE and had a incredible strong early push at around 8:30 including - +1 Attack - Stimpack (not sure if Shields too) - 2 Medivacs - a lot marines - 1-2 Marauder Regards & Thanks StaN *Edit* Found the VoD and wrote down the BO: - Gasless Fast Expand with 1 Barracks - 2 more Barracks - Dual Gas - 1 Techlab & Engineering Bay - Stimpack & +1 Attack - Factory & 3rd Gas - 2x Reactor at Barracks - Starport & Reactor at factory - Marine Shield when Stimpack finishes --> Push at around 8:30 - 9:00 | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On April 08 2012 16:51 Sajaki wrote: Ok. Here are some things I am testing, and how i am gonna try and work around what you listed above: 1) Splitting money between bio mech and air is quite expensive, but if we are getting a good number of siege tanks, why exactly are we going vikings in the first place? Tanks do bonus damage to colossus. Tanks outrange colossus. Tanks kill kill things that ARENT colossus. 2) Focus fire everything that isnt a chargelot. If they have only chargelots (similar supply) u can literally unsiege and Amove. Alternately, u can target fire the edges of the zealot cluster, and stim + click behind tanks allowing them to buffer. 3) This build can easily include Ghosts as well, since you are redirecting the gas you need from vikings and marauders into tanks, you can also get away with LESS ghosts because siegetanks overlap the ghost in its ability to snipe HTs. 4) Refer above. The army comp i am referring to is 130 supply (since this mimics a real game) with 30 supply in 10 siege tanks, 10 supply in 5 medivacs, and 90 supply in marines. EDIT: Regarding upgrades, 3 3 Protoss vs 3 3 Bio Terran and +3 vehicle weps I'd love to see replay of this strategy used on the ladder =) | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On April 08 2012 16:51 Sajaki wrote: Ok. Here are some things I am testing, and how i am gonna try and work around what you listed above: 1) Splitting money between bio mech and air is quite expensive, but if we are getting a good number of siege tanks, why exactly are we going vikings in the first place? Tanks do bonus damage to colossus. Tanks outrange colossus. Tanks kill kill things that ARENT colossus. 2) Focus fire everything that isnt a chargelot. If they have only chargelots (similar supply) u can literally unsiege and Amove. Alternately, u can target fire the edges of the zealot cluster, and stim + click behind tanks allowing them to buffer. 3) This build can easily include Ghosts as well, since you are redirecting the gas you need from vikings and marauders into tanks, you can also get away with LESS ghosts because siegetanks overlap the ghost in its ability to snipe HTs. 4) Refer above. The army comp i am referring to is 130 supply (since this mimics a real game) with 30 supply in 10 siege tanks, 10 supply in 5 medivacs, and 90 supply in marines. EDIT: Regarding upgrades, 3 3 Protoss vs 3 3 Bio Terran and +3 vehicle weps It doesn't work. You can unit test all you want, it just doesn't work. He can storm you, he can flank you. And it'd be chargelot/archon/ht/collsai you'd be facing. Unit tester all you want, that's a vaccuum. You will have no mobility, and no ability to remax at all fast. | ||
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LukasG
Germany95 Posts
i have big problems in TvP i open 1 rax gasless FE and then another rax into 2 gas into third rax and then i push with plenty marines 2 medivacs and +1 (ofc stim and combat). And then.... (pls watch the replay i cant explain everything here) He went Chargelot Archon i dont how to play against this, how to fight and so on. As you can see my engagments were terrible  I´ll hope you can help me Thanks in advance LukasG http://drop.sc/155663 | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
You can put on constant aggression, and no fear of mass lings. They 1a lings? Sac your army, and micro the hellions to clear them all out. I'm doing this +1 stim CS marine marauder hellion push, into 5 rax 2 fac fast third, delayed starport to put on constant pressure on the ground and deny the third and heavy droning. It's quite nice. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
Note: i screwed up my build and forgot to put down a CC before my 4 rax. It was supposed to be a 1rax expand into 4 rax. Can someone please help me with this? I get losses like this all the time, and I could really use some help. http://drop.sc/155750 | ||
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
On April 08 2012 16:39 Inty wrote: Show nested quote + The only way that I have seen people use a marine tank composition is Ok. Here are some things I am testing, and how i am gonna try and work around what you listed above: 1) Splitting money between bio mech and air is quite expensive, but if we are getting a good number of siege tanks, why exactly are we going vikings in the first place? Tanks do bonus damage to colossus. Tanks outrange colossus. Tanks kill kill things that ARENT colossus. 2) Focus fire everything that isnt a chargelot. If they have only chargelots (similar supply) u can literally unsiege and Amove. Alternately, u can target fire the edges of the zealot cluster, and stim + click behind tanks allowing them to buffer. 3) This build can easily include Ghosts as well, since you are redirecting the gas you need from vikings and marauders into tanks, you can also get away with LESS ghosts because siegetanks overlap the ghost in its ability to snipe HTs. 4) Refer above. The army comp i am referring to is 130 supply (since this mimics a real game) with 30 supply in 10 siege tanks, 10 supply in 5 medivacs, and 90 supply in marines. EDIT: Regarding upgrades, 3 3 Protoss vs 3 3 Bio Terran and +3 vehicle wepsLast edit: 2012-04-08 17:00:13 What Iamjeffrey said is pretty true. Storms will eat this alive. Tanks really arent going to stop the toss from just rolling you with his deathball. I think that storms are the main problem for terran to deal with right now... | ||
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On April 09 2012 01:24 iAmJeffReY wrote: Is anyone struggling with ling infestor TvZ still? I got quite a few reps of a demuslim like timing push that just destroys ling infestor. I'm finding MKP style mara/marine/BFhellion to be just so disgustingly good against zerg. You can put on constant aggression, and no fear of mass lings. They 1a lings? Sac your army, and micro the hellions to clear them all out. I'm doing this +1 stim CS marine marauder hellion push, into 5 rax 2 fac fast third, delayed starport to put on constant pressure on the ground and deny the third and heavy droning. It's quite nice. can you elaborate on this MKP mara/marine/bfhellion style? and DeMuslim's timing push too? been wanting to mix up my TvZ in awhile | ||
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