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On March 13 2012 06:19 Cosmology wrote:Also, how the hell do I push in a TvT, I had 60 to 40 marines and 11 tanks to 5 and I just couldn't figure out a way to push his nat without losing my entire tank force 
You don't. You contain, take another base, push up against the side of his main from the low ground, add production, stay up in upgrades, check for hidden expos / go kill expos he has that are undefendable, and try to get viking advantage if you don't have it. Sound like enough to do?
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On March 13 2012 14:40 Cosmology wrote:
okay so i still cant get past round 10 of marine split challenge, i gota be doing something wrong
I suck shit at marine split challenge. It's not necessary to split marines in this fashion - you should be using positioning and moving away specific groups of units that have banelings rolling towards them more than actual high speed splitting.
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On March 14 2012 06:38 Akamu wrote:
hey man doods!
so here's the sitch. My TvZ playstyle is mass marine (dont laugh until i started running into this build i was at a 75% win rate vs zerg). 1 rax expand into 5 rax + reactors and a quick third. I have good splits and all that blah blah blah but now a days it seems every zerg and their grandma is going for this stephano style. aka drone to 40ish. Make a shit ton of lings. take map, take third, get infestors, profit.
We're basically even on upgrades all game, i'm just finding it very very hard to trade cost effectively vs that comp. Clump up = death by fungal. Spread out = death by 10000000000000000 lings.
At kinda high masters (840 points at the time of this post) it just feels like unless their control is terribad that I need to make some serious changes to my play style or find some way to deal with this.
so i come here to you much wiser terran brothers for advice! I could post replays if you want (but im not entirely sure how..)
What should i do?
Mass bio is way better vs stephano style than it is vs ling bane muta. You need marauders, drops, sniping infestors/tech/expos, etc.
Read Naruto and Morrow's advice here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320203
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On March 14 2012 09:23 .ImpacT. wrote:
Hey guys, I'm a diamond protoss looking to switch to terran. What kind of builds/strategies should I look into as starter builds? I used to be #1 Diamond (Back in the beta when there was no master/gm) Toss, but I've recently started playing again and want to switch :D. Thanks a ton.
1rax fe into 3rax / 2gas tvt/tvp
hellion expand into tank push or hellion expand into 3 cc
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On March 14 2012 18:51 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 18:18 Blazinghand wrote:On March 14 2012 08:36 Akamu wrote:On March 14 2012 06:40 iAmJeffReY wrote:On March 14 2012 06:38 Akamu wrote:
hey man doods!
so here's the sitch. My TvZ playstyle is mass marine (dont laugh until i started running into this build i was at a 75% win rate vs zerg). 1 rax expand into 5 rax + reactors and a quick third. I have good splits and all that blah blah blah but now a days it seems every zerg and their grandma is going for this stephano style. aka drone to 40ish. Make a shit ton of lings. take map, take third, get infestors, profit.
We're basically even on upgrades all game, i'm just finding it very very hard to trade cost effectively vs that comp. Clump up = death by fungal. Spread out = death by 10000000000000000 lings.
At kinda high masters (840 points at the time of this post) it just feels like unless their control is terribad that I need to make some serious changes to my play style or find some way to deal with this.
so i come here to you much wiser terran brothers for advice! I could post replays if you want (but im not entirely sure how..)
What should i do?
You know the answer, and you don't want to accept it. Tanks. Tanks. Tanks. Fast +1 on them, and just tanks, tanks, tanks. Placement of tanks, tanks, tanks. Keeping upgrades on par, tanks tanks tanks. gah i know. I just don't want to know. I don't use tanks in any match up! grrrr. When i tried to theory craft it out myself i thought maybe ghosts could make it work... but tanks are probs my best and only option. God that makes me a sad panda. You don't really need THAT many tanks, but basically TvZ works like this: Pre Broodlord Tech: Marines > Everything except Banelings and Infestors Tanks > Banelings and Infestors The purpose of the tanks is to fight the units that counter Marines. The rest is up to Marines, so keep up with them on upgrades. You need that quick +1 on tanks to 1-shot zerglings that have any level of carapace upgrades. In small numbers, marines alone can fight banelings, but honestly without sieged up tanks it's enormously difficult. I disagree. You have to have tanks against stephano style, and a lot of them. Fast upgraded lings can be at 2/2 by 13 min, and they will clean up marines tank pushes with just lings alone, at times. You need tanks, with +1, and many of them to take down heavy ling numbers. Most don't even get banes, favoring fast upgrades and just ling infestor.
I prefer pure bio vs infestor play.
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what is the follow up to marine hellion elevator drop(on 1 gas), that I do against terran that are 1 rax fastexpanding?
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On March 15 2012 00:31 Sergio1992 wrote:
what is the follow up to marine hellion elevator drop(on 1 gas), that I do against terran that are 1 rax fastexpanding?
It is dependant on 2 things:
Amount of damage that you do, and what you scout when you're in his base
When you do insane amounts of damage, you can expand and just prepare for a big 2 base push.
If you see 3 rax, RAX add ons and an ebay (no fact), this means that he is going for a bio push. If you see that he is on 3 rax and has a factory already, it is likely that he wants fast medivacs and you must prepare for drops around 9:30-10:00. However fast factory could also mean banshee play so you have to scan at 8:30+
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On March 15 2012 00:39 MaV_gGSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:31 Sergio1992 wrote:
what is the follow up to marine hellion elevator drop(on 1 gas), that I do against terran that are 1 rax fastexpanding?
It is dependant on 2 things: Amount of damage that you do, and what you scout when you're in his baseWhen you do insane amounts of damage, you can expand and just prepare for a big 2 base push. If you see 3 rax, RAX add ons and an ebay (no fact), this means that he is going for a bio push. If you see that he is on 3 rax and has a factory already, it is likely that he wants fast medivacs and you must prepare for drops around 9:30-10:00. However fast factory could also mean banshee play so you have to scan at 8:30+
expo
2nd gas
tech lab on rax
2 more rax
stim
reactor on fac an port
3rd/(4th) gas
double ebay
swap the two reactors to your 2 new rax
then go medi/tanks
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How do I engage late game TvP when I have bio? I've been feeling like once we are both at 200/200, I lose even with awesome EMP's / kiting. Do I just need to split his army with double / triple drops and then engage at front? Or mass drop? Or change army comp late game? Halp pleeeez!
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On August 06 2011 07:36 ilion wrote:
TvP 1 rax gasless FE questions:
How many bunkers at my natural is too much? 4? This is obviously when I've scouted a 3gate robo or 4gate.
Also, how do you deal with blink stalker? As in a rush to blink. I've never actually faced this so I don't know when the timing for a blink rush to finish is, but I still forsee it as being a weakness of a gasless FE.
Remember that these numbers hold if your bunker placement is optimal.
3 gate robo off of 1 base (immortal sentry): It's holdable with 3
4 gate: 2, but 3 is safe
I've seen some pro terrans lift cc back into main and build units up when they scout a blink all in. That would probably be the easiest way to hold
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On March 15 2012 01:42 Nemasyst.598 wrote:
How do I engage late game TvP when I have bio? I've been feeling like once we are both at 200/200, I lose even with awesome EMP's / kiting. Do I just need to split his army with double / triple drops and then engage at front? Or mass drop? Or change army comp late game? Halp pleeeez!
Preemptive splitting of army makes a HUGE difference
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On March 15 2012 01:56 MaV_gGSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:42 Nemasyst.598 wrote:
How do I engage late game TvP when I have bio? I've been feeling like once we are both at 200/200, I lose even with awesome EMP's / kiting. Do I just need to split his army with double / triple drops and then engage at front? Or mass drop? Or change army comp late game? Halp pleeeez! Preemptive splitting of army makes a HUGE difference
Like with banelings kind of thing where you split your bio into a bunch of groups before engaging? Or splitting by dropping or 2 prong attacking?
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On March 14 2012 23:52 Pokebunny wrote:
Tanks are useless tvp, don't ever use them other than 1/2base allins.
Strongly disagree. Tanks can wreak complete havoc if used correctly, however using them correctly requires a lot of skill. Imo people should never say that a certain unit shouldnt be built, there's always something you can do with a unit!
Cheers
Dan
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On March 14 2012 23:52 Pokebunny wrote:
Tanks are useless tvp, don't ever use them other than 1/2base allins.
Hardly, tanks can be very strong situationally. On taldarim altar, for example, they can be used to harass the natural against any race. Also, considering that they are almost never used in TvP, they can be effective purely because the protoss may not know how to respond...
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On March 15 2012 02:32 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
On March 14 2012 23:52 Pokebunny wrote:
Tanks are useless tvp, don't ever use them other than 1/2base allins.
Hardly, tanks can be very strong situationally. On taldarim altar, for example, they can be used to harass the natural against any race. Also, considering that they are almost never used in TvP, they can be effective purely because the protoss may not know how to respond...
Chargelots counter it. And as far as i know protoss always makes this unit.
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In TVP when you do gasless fe into 3 rax, what's the best way to deal with a blink stalker allin? I saw a fast second gas, no robo or gateways. I didn't dare float my cc out so I decided to bunker up my ramp. His push hit at like 7:30 with a ton of b stalkers.
He picked off my tech lab so I coulnd get stim out. He then did blink micro while I was a moving my stuff into his army. He didn't lost much while I did. He proceeded to pick off things and he was able to just kill me after a couple of blink ''harassment''.
So, you do gasless fe into 3 rax and you're wondering what he's up to after not seeing him expand and building a fast second gas. What do you do to possibly scout this with gasless fe and how do you deal with a big b stalk ball? I remember a game between MC and MVP where MVP pulled his workers. Maybe it's something like that?
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On March 15 2012 02:40 Sea_aeS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:32 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
On March 14 2012 23:52 Pokebunny wrote:
Tanks are useless tvp, don't ever use them other than 1/2base allins.
Hardly, tanks can be very strong situationally. On taldarim altar, for example, they can be used to harass the natural against any race. Also, considering that they are almost never used in TvP, they can be effective purely because the protoss may not know how to respond... Chargelots counter it. And as far as i know protoss always makes this unit.
Its not always just what counters what. Sure chargelots are good vs tanks, but what if tanks are used to get your opponent into doing something specific. Im going quite wild here with some thoughts, but lets say I get tanks.. my opponent will think, hey lets go chargelots and less stalkers since stalkers get absolutely owned by tanks. I, as the T player, now have a opportunity to techswitch into air maybe? What Im trying to say is, sometimes its necessery to think outside the box for some things.
Side note: Im working on what I just said in my TvP currently ..works quite well I must say.
Cheers
Dan
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On March 14 2012 23:54 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:19 Cosmology wrote:Also, how the hell do I push in a TvT, I had 60 to 40 marines and 11 tanks to 5 and I just couldn't figure out a way to push his nat without losing my entire tank force You don't. You contain, take another base, push up against the side of his main from the low ground, add production, stay up in upgrades, check for hidden expos / go kill expos he has that are undefendable, and try to get viking advantage if you don't have it. Sound like enough to do?
With the army lead he had, he should've been able to push for the kill on almost any map if the guy wasn't camping his natural with the tanks, if he was. Do what pokebunny says.
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I have a few questions regarding unit composition changes in a few matchups.
1) When do I start making vikings in TvT when I am playing marine tank? Do I cut vikings if my opponent is going pure mech and just split his vikings to patrol for inevitable drops?
2) When do I add ghosts in TvZ? I know they aren't as powerful and aren't a good reaction to high concentrations of infestors as hive going up because the gas/production is better used in thors/siege tanks/vikings/mauraders.
3) How many ghosts do I add into my bioball vP, as much as gas allows or should I be making some mauraders behind them too? (When templar hit the field I tend to have mass rax with techlab and will produce 4-6 ghosts at a time depending on previous gas bank)
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On March 15 2012 02:32 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
On March 14 2012 23:52 Pokebunny wrote:
Tanks are useless tvp, don't ever use them other than 1/2base allins.
Hardly, tanks can be very strong situationally. On taldarim altar, for example, they can be used to harass the natural against any race. Also, considering that they are almost never used in TvP, they can be
effective purely because the protoss may not know how to respond...
Chargelots counter it. And as far as i know protoss always makes this unit.
For defence though... Say like on the high ground around your base. I could see them being viable.
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EPT
