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On February 10 2012 19:43 KimJongChill wrote:
Hey, I'm having trouble identifying and holding one-base protoss attacks. I open standard 1 rax gasless fe and then add on three more rax and make a bunker, but after the toss gets his first stalker out I feel like I don't have much map presence. Should I be building more bunkers at the start? For instance, I scanned a toss around 6 min and saw three warpgates, so I assumed that he was going to expand, but it turns out he had a proxy pylon and was attacking me...Any ideas?
Your first SCV should scout whether he got an early nexus (nexus-first). If he didn't it's expo after gate(s) or 1 base play. (2 gas usually means 1 base play). Things you can do are sneaking a worker into their base to scout/moving out with marines (you did 4rax no gas) and scouting for common proxy pylon locations/scanning to see if warpgate is on their gates. Many maps allow you to scout if they have a natural or not.
One thing I like to do is see when the attack hits (checking replay) and scouting a bit beforehand to see if they are preparing for an all-in (army massing outside your natural/ probe coming to make proxy pylon/ no nexus).
3 gates at 6 minutes could mean a lot of things such as 3 gate expo or expo-> 3 gate, 3 gate voidray all-in, etc. You need more information to know to eliminate possible protoss options.
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On that note I have problems identifying protoss one base play also but that's mostly because protoss can put tech anywhere on the map and has a large number of 1 base builds that revolve around generally the same openings. I would say just plan for the most likely case you can think of if you don't know for sure after having try'd to scout. I have been toying around with the idea of a floater scouter rax I know this type of thing was common back in starcraft1 and I think it will probably become more common in starcraft2 as time goes on for many reasons. The main problem is fitting the cost into your build as a floater rax needs to be built early on and costs you about as much as a scan would but I think the info it can get you is often worth it.
I might also suggest you start playing protoss every now and again to try some of the builds you have problems scouting to figure out sorta what they look like.
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On February 10 2012 19:43 KimJongChill wrote:
Hey, I'm having trouble identifying and holding one-base protoss attacks. I open standard 1 rax gasless fe and then add on three more rax and make a bunker, but after the toss gets his first stalker out I feel like I don't have much map presence. Should I be building more bunkers at the start? For instance, I scanned a toss around 6 min and saw three warpgates, so I assumed that he was going to expand, but it turns out he had a proxy pylon and was attacking me...Any ideas?
Your initial scv scout needs to find out whether it's one or two gas. Leave before the first stalker, around 4:00-4:10, and hide the scv. One gas basically means either 1gate fe or 4gate. If the energy on the nexus is high, a 4gate is somewhat likely. Two gas means an expand or 1-base tech.
Have your scv come back at 5:00-5:30 to check for a nexus and if you don't see one, try to sneak in the base.
Only time I would scan a protoss in early game is if there is no expansion, I have no idea what they're doing and they are guarding their entrance instead of zealot-stalker poking (they have something to hide). But scans are not very reliable, especially for counting the number of gates... Good players will almost always put some of their gates in different locations.
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I might suggest something else do your best to hide what your doing to the protoss also that will limit what builds they will feel comfy doing. So instead of fe at your nat possibly wall off and fe inside your base ect ect.
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Terran question. Am I right in saying that if I go mech, of course it is going to be (generally) a long, macro game. Whereas if I go bio I can finish the game faster?
It is well known that generally, mech are long macro games, whereas bio is more aggressive, am I right?
So, is there any way I can go mech and still be able to finish games early? I think mech needs 200/200 or close to be strong..?
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How do you deal with Immortals in the early-mid game? I'm having trouble being able to pressure or defend against Protoss when they get an early Robo with immortals...
I can't pressure with 2 rax, and then even if I expand faster than them, they still kill me or do too way too much damage with a 3-5 immortal attack. It also tends to hit right before normal medivac timing so I don't even have that to help me.
If I try to 1 rax expand then I just get rolled over because I have nothing but marines and bunkers melt to immortals instantly...
so if you 1 base longer you die, and if you play for macro you die too...
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I have a question about army positioning in tvp specifically about where to put my ghosts. So if the protoss has his Templar in front my ghosts should also be in front to snipe/emp them. My question is where do i put my ghosts if the protoss has his Templar behind his army? If I put them in front there's a good chance they could die before I can emp the Templar, do I put them behind the army and move them up as the templar move up, should I flank the toss army with my ghosts, or would getting a faster cloak for the ghosts be the way to go?
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On February 11 2012 10:19 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Terran question. Am I right in saying that if I go mech, of course it is going to be (generally) a long, macro game. Whereas if I go bio I can finish the game faster?
It is well known that generally, mech are long macro games, whereas bio is more aggressive, am I right?
So, is there any way I can go mech and still be able to finish games early? I think mech needs 200/200 or close to be strong..?
This all really depends on how your playing the mech but lets assume goody style?
I think it's often true that with mech if you lose your army in a bad fight the games pretty much over. Also mech often has a 2 base doom push meant to end the game so you might not really get into a macro game unless your losing that game already.
If your talking straight bio for the whole game you will be doing drops and probably not doom pushing so the game will probably go longer depending on how much your opponent derps or doesn't derp.
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On February 11 2012 11:31 Inty wrote:
I have a question about army positioning in tvp specifically about where to put my ghosts. So if the protoss has his Templar in front my ghosts should also be in front to snipe/emp them. My question is where do i put my ghosts if the protoss has his Templar behind his army? If I put them in front there's a good chance they could die before I can emp the Templar, do I put them behind the army and move them up as the templar move up, should I flank the toss army with my ghosts, or would getting a faster cloak for the ghosts be the way to go?
From what I'v seen of pros they generally have their ghost to the side of the army possibly even ahead of it in an attempt to emp before the fight begins. You generally don't want to be emping the templar when the fight begins as they will storm before or as the emp hits them most likely. It is also fairly easy for the templar to feedback ghosts as the protoss is generally not microing unit heavily after the ff and storms are cast. I think your main issue is possibly not having vision of the protoss army so you might need to scan more or have a floating factory or rax. I'm just saying that because if you had vision moving the ghosts up in time would be much less of a problem.
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On February 11 2012 10:28 Scila wrote:
How do you deal with Immortals in the early-mid game? I'm having trouble being able to pressure or defend against Protoss when they get an early Robo with immortals...
I can't pressure with 2 rax, and then even if I expand faster than them, they still kill me or do too way too much damage with a 3-5 immortal attack. It also tends to hit right before normal medivac timing so I don't even have that to help me.
If I try to 1 rax expand then I just get rolled over because I have nothing but marines and bunkers melt to immortals instantly...
so if you 1 base longer you die, and if you play for macro you die too...
You should read some threads that have come up about this issue the build I think your talking about is 2 gate robo and it's become very popular lately. I believe the direct counter to the build is to go ghosts and I do personally use a ghost build vs it and I find it can at the very least hold push off if not be able to fight it head to head and come out ahead. It's meant to be a bunker busting push so if your relying on bunkers to stop it that may not be the answer your looking for.
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Yes but in general mech is known for longer macro games right? And more passive/defensive compared to bio playstyle? With mech you need a good number of mech units to be able to have a chance at killing the enemy.
Whereas if you go bio, you are more mobile, etc. and more aggressive and can end the game quickly. Of course there are always exceptions, but in general is this viewpoint correct?
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Mech doesn't go for a macro game in the sense that it's not mobile enough to go into drops or defend drop type play. What I'm trying to say it's more of a 2 base doom push play that has a macro type opening but because of the unit comp does not generally want a game any longer then mid game. That's just from standard mech play I'm sure you could do a more macro mech however you will have some issues with mobility.
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On February 11 2012 12:47 xJaCEx wrote:
Mech doesn't go for a macro game in the sense that it's not mobile enough to go into drops or defend drop type play. What I'm trying to say it's more of a 2 base doom push play that has a macro type opening but because of the unit comp does not generally want a game any longer then mid game. That's just from standard mech play I'm sure you could do a more macro mech however you will have some issues with mobility.
Can you be aggressive with mech though? (Excluding drops/harass) I think you cannot, but with bio you can. Because with mech you cant just have some units and attack, it needs to be a lot right?
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My suggestion is you watch some mech players like goody for example to see what it's all about if you don't know much about mech play. I understand that he has improved a bit lately so the games might be more interesting then just the doom push type I was talking about.
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How do people deal with doom drops TvT? It is happening to me in every part of the game except earlygame. If I do a push I just get doom dropped by a smaller force but still I can't do anything with it. Do I really have to have vikings patrolling, sensor tower up and shitton of turrets / army in my base before I move out?
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On February 11 2012 22:49 krooked wrote:
How do people deal with doom drops TvT? It is happening to me in every part of the game except earlygame. If I do a push I just get doom dropped by a smaller force but still I can't do anything with it. Do I really have to have vikings patrolling, sensor tower up and shitton of turrets / army in my base before I move out?
Map Control is vital as you move out. You want to see p much everything. If its a big map, I like to put depots around the map in usual drop ship movement areas. Makes it easy to see drops. I keep about 4-6 marines in my base at all times if I don't have many turrets either
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On February 11 2012 13:49 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 12:47 xJaCEx wrote:
Mech doesn't go for a macro game in the sense that it's not mobile enough to go into drops or defend drop type play. What I'm trying to say it's more of a 2 base doom push play that has a macro type opening but because of the unit comp does not generally want a game any longer then mid game. That's just from standard mech play I'm sure you could do a more macro mech however you will have some issues with mobility. Can you be aggressive with mech though? (Excluding drops/harass) I think you cannot, but with bio you can. Because with mech you cant just have some units and attack, it needs to be a lot right?
What are the point of your questions? You're over-generalising several things which should not be generalised at all. Of course you can be aggressive with mech, but it's not necessarily something a mech player will want to do
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Hi,
who can give me an idea of a reaper opening into... bio and/or mech?
That would be really nice of you! 
Thanks
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When I open with mech, (gas first banshee cloak expand into mech), what's an ideal time to get an engy bay? (and if I've already scouted he's not going banshees)
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On February 11 2012 23:39 Striker.superfreunde wrote:Hi, who can give me an idea of a reaper opening into... bio and/or mech? That would be really nice of you! Thanks
1 rax
1 gas
orbital
tech lab when rax finishes
2nd command center
reaper on tech lab
move out with 1 reaper, or make 2/3 total
then either add factories and your second gas and your third and go toward mech
or add more rax and start getting upgrades and units
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EPT
