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On January 27 2012 05:45 HiTeD wrote:
Hello, master Terran from eu here.
I was wondering about nexus first. If I scout it I put up 3 raxes instead of a cc and do a scv/marine all in. But if I wasn't able to scout it fast enough, that means I have to go for macro play. Should I go for a different build if I see nexus first? I usually follow Drewbies build but it gets very hard to beat protoss.
So I wonder if you can continue with the build or if I need to make some changes to it so I get a better chance on macro but still are somewhat safe to 6/7 gate all ins from the protoss.
The only success I've had against nexus first has been either reactor hellion + 3 rax stim marine scv all in (if I scout in time) or reaper FE into 3 rax 1 fac 1 port marine marauder tank medic push.
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On January 27 2012 05:45 HiTeD wrote:
Hello, master Terran from eu here.
I was wondering about nexus first. If I scout it I put up 3 raxes instead of a cc and do a scv/marine all in. But if I wasn't able to scout it fast enough, that means I have to go for macro play. Should I go for a different build if I see nexus first? I usually follow Drewbies build but it gets very hard to beat protoss.
So I wonder if you can continue with the build or if I need to make some changes to it so I get a better chance on macro but still are somewhat safe to 6/7 gate all ins from the protoss.
4 rax SCV all-in if scouted early enough, else I do some funky double marine/hellion drops into 2 Port Banshee/Raven all-in... I tried 3 OC, double expand and the classic 1 rax FE before, but it is not possible to outmacro a Protoss at this point if he doesn't do some serious mistakes and if he gets 8 gas, he is invincible.
On January 27 2012 03:23 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 20:24 VoO wrote:On January 26 2012 19:54 iAmJeffReY wrote:4. Shells first is useless, except against blink stalker all-in.
...no it's not. It's quick, and helps you, with micro, take out units in the mid field with marauders in toe. Yes, I agree. It is not useless if it suits you. But I prefer stim first after a 1 rax FE and I have never seen a Korean progamer taking shells first.  On January 26 2012 20:06 ayrsen wrote:
My worst matchup by far is TvZ. Can anyone recommend a few solid builds that can transition to lategame for TvZ? I like fast expands and winning midgame the most. Have you tried Bomber's TvZ [1] [2], which is super macro heavy or the more standardesque Thorzain 15 Gas, late Hellion Expand [1][2]? probably because they go from 1rax fe into 3 rax pure marines (no gas for quite awhile) ? = no marauders = no need for shells for them (also their marine micro is good too)
Yes that is correct, the reason is the current metagame in GSL. The standard 1 rax FE timings are pretty bad against a nexus first or 1 gate FE, but mass marines can punish this really hard. Artosis commented on this last Code S as a Terran got slaughtered, Alive if I remember correctly. Nevertheless, they don't go shells first even with marauders... ^^, as far as I recognized it (of course I might have missed something, but I'm refering to recent MKP builds).
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On January 27 2012 05:06 biocause wrote:
Banshees vs reapers in TvT which one is better?
If there was an obvious answer to that question you wouldn't see both in pro-games.
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Hello, I need some help with TvT late game. I open bio and I try to play bio tank, however, I am really having trouble with very heavy tank play or essentially mech play. One game on Xelnaga, I opened bio tank, he opened tank, and then I screwed up and let him have both towers. That was my mistake on that game.
However, there was this game I played against mech play where the player open hellions, and then into hellion tank vikings. Here is the replay.
http://drop.sc/99063#chat
I just started to play mass 1v1's so I don't know/haven't experience many builds against mine. I watch every replay I lost and try to find mistakes. Usually its something small (like hellions going to watchtower first, instead of going directly to zergs nat to see what happened, would have seen the baneling bust T.T), or stuff I have not experience before and therefore I panic.
I open rax gasless expand into 4 rax, then into medivacs, push with stim, shields 2/4 medivacs and +1 attack (at least that is my build when it is optimal). Typically it hits around....10-12 minutes depending on how badly I mess it up :S, Anyways, he harasses me with hellions, and I think its even trade off, then I do my little push, and then see that I can't really break in, drop into his main, and once that is all done, I think I am ahead. Granted, I should have noticed the vikings and just dropped them and let them die fighting, but roughly after that point, I was 30 food ahead. Since I have not experienced mech before, I am not sure what to do. He ninja expands, (which I never catch) but I do manage to snipe off 2 cc and some workers at what I thought was his 3rd (actually his 4th).
Anyways, at this point I go for nukes, which I think I made one of my mistakes. I kinda of went for the miracle nuke. I should have nuked, scanned, and then stimmed in as they were unsieging. I should have position my bio closer so that was possible. He wasn't very good with his siege tanks, as he tend to siege or unsiege on mass. What I did, was basically ran in for a base race. And then things proceeded badly, though I fought it out for some time.
Anyways, these are the things I think I should have done differently:
Add a 3rd fact (4th maybe).
Macro better when I was doing the base race (I panic when I never experienced things before)
Keep on banking gas (I banked minerals as I was on 200/200 as I was not sure what to do)
Nuke, scan, then possible stim in.
Please nitpick.
Thanks
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Hi,I lost a game where I had twice as many workers and was maxed when he had 120 food.
I played a pretty good TvP according to my standards, had a strong lead all game long ever since the beginning. I opened 1Rax FE into 4Raxes (3 Tech Labs and 1 Reactor). I pressured early with some marines and did significant damage at his natural.
Once I got medivacs out I killed his natural and took a third. Eventually I had twice as munch workers (80 something to 46) and I got maxed when he was ~120 food.
I managed to lose that game and I'm looking for pointers to make sure that doesn't happen again.
here's the replay: http://drop.sc/99088
I'd like to know if waiting outside his natural with my maxed army was a good idea. When should I have started Vikings production and was my engagement near his third a good idea (at first I wanted to use EMP's defensively to keep him at bay but he pushed so I engaged...)?
Anything you find will be useful, thank you!
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As a Terran player, what can I make that hits the Protoss before a 4Gate rush? And if there is something, is it possible to shoot ahead in economy as well? I know I'm asking for the impossible, but I'm in Silver and everyone just 4Gates or just 3Gate robo's. And if someone early expo's I have no clue what to do anymore ... ><
So, what's earlier than a 4Gate from a Terran.
What to do when Protoss early expands?
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On a small map you could 2 rax and hit when he is vulnerable, but it's far better to just defend and win that way.
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On January 28 2012 16:48 TuElite wrote:Hi,I lost a game where I had twice as many workers and was maxed when he had 120 food. I played a pretty good TvP according to my standards, had a strong lead all game long ever since the beginning. I opened 1Rax FE into 4Raxes (3 Tech Labs and 1 Reactor). I pressured early with some marines and did significant damage at his natural. Once I got medivacs out I killed his natural and took a third. Eventually I had twice as munch workers (80 something to 46) and I got maxed when he was ~120 food. I managed to lose that game and I'm looking for pointers to make sure that doesn't happen again. here's the replay: http://drop.sc/99088I'd like to know if waiting outside his natural with my maxed army was a good idea. When should I have started Vikings production and was my engagement near his third a good idea (at first I wanted to use EMP's defensively to keep him at bay but he pushed so I engaged...)? Anything you find will be useful, thank you!
Few things:
- Your micro priorities need work. The idea against a toss playing this style is to let Vikings attack the colossi while you stutter back your bio. Once you kill all of the zealots between you and the colossus, then you can run forward to try to snipe them. If you leave zealots in the way, you will just lose a lot of stuff while you get stuck. This is what happened in every battle in this game. If the opponent has zealots, unless you get a sweet concave where you can run by unobstructed at the edges, don't attack click colossus until you stutter away from zealots.
- I know that there's this instinct to just remax on whatever after a big battle, but good god do NOT keep building SCV's every time you lose army. 55-65 SCV's with ~4 OC's of MULEs or more is your late game goal for harvesters in TvP. The path you take to get there varies from game to game. Sometimes, it's best to go up to 75 through the mid game and then bring 20 with you to fight at some point. Sometimes it's best to just kill them so that you can add Vikings or Ghosts when you lose supply room.
- Also, you just need to actually make units. At 21:06 you had 4000 resources in the bank and plenty of production facilities, you just didn't make units. Always be producing bio in TvP. There's no reason not to be.
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Ok, good stuff, thank you! I guess when I see Colossus I get scared, panic and try to take them out but I see how that's wrong.
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On January 18 2012 07:18 Techno wrote:
Anyone else find warp prism all ins (4 gate, DT) really hard to hold as terran?
Incredibly late response, but as I faced it multiple times last night, here is a good example of how I did it.
http://drop.sc/99179 vs 900 point masters protoss
4 gate warp prism into robo/warprpism harass into a 1 base 3 collsai push. Even after all that he is able to expo and make a game out of it.
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On January 28 2012 20:55 Willzzz wrote:
On a small map you could 2 rax and hit when he is vulnerable, but it's far better to just defend and win that way.
What about when you need to expand? If he has his ball, you can hardly expo or catch up with his army! Drops might do the tricks, but that's like tickling the opponent since Protoss has warp ins. He just kills his own units and makes place for new ones to defend at base.
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I have a fairly easy answered question without requiring to post a replay. Is there and ideal amount of scv's to have overall when you're at 200/200? Just in general, because I feel like I've been losing games due to the fact that there army size is way larger due to less workers and my army just gets rolled without enough time to properly re max.
Edit: More towards TvP/TvZ, and I guess TvT as well. But not really counting on opponents sacking scv's and making orbitals
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On August 06 2011 07:11 SurroundSound wrote:
Recently in TvT, ive been favoring playing a safe turtle game to get 2 bases where i make my push but it was absolutely crushed by a thor/hellion/tank combination where i was sieged and he wasnt and he charged into my line and demolished it?
1. Is that a better combination to go for out of safe turtle game that i like to play?
2. When is the best time to attack with my tanks unsieged...in other words how should i charge a siege line with my tanks unsieged?
edit: I also like to get vikings out for denying drops and banshees. Can this be included if question 1 is a yes?
Actually, mass thors/ marrines or hellions to tank damage can beat thor/hellion/tank untill he has a critical mass of tanks, like 20+. Thor have 400 hp, and with some quick +3 attack upgrades, thor can finish the tank in 2 shots. you can produce thors non stop from 2 factories AND do upgrades for both thors and marine/hellions. 2rax with one reactor and one tech lab doing upgrades is a great mineral sink. Also, with this composition, its important to get a LOT of command center. The goal is to keep minimum amount of SCVs like 30 to 40 and extend the use of mules and scans. For example, in my tvt matchup, i already had 5 orbital and 2 planetary on 2 gold expansions in 20 min. You shouldn't have a difficulty because you get a lot of spare minerals just from 2 bases. With 5+ orbitals, you can scan non-stop for expansions and timings to move ouy while keeping dropping tons of mules to mine. i actually won a lot of TvTs, , even when might opponent got something like 20 tanks with 4 thors and 9 vikyings. because they tend to go on for close to an hour, so i can be ahead in army supply when we max out as i have less SCVs and more mules.
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On January 29 2012 01:27 Arkless wrote:
I have a fairly easy answered question without requiring to post a replay. Is there and ideal amount of scv's to have overall when you're at 200/200? Just in general, because I feel like I've been losing games due to the fact that there army size is way larger due to less workers and my army just gets rolled without enough time to properly re max.
Edit: More towards TvP/TvZ, and I guess TvT as well. But not really counting on opponents sacking scv's and making orbitals
I cut 10 SCVs for every OC above 3. Every 1k I get an additional OC.
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On January 29 2012 02:36 VoO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 01:27 Arkless wrote:
I have a fairly easy answered question without requiring to post a replay. Is there and ideal amount of scv's to have overall when you're at 200/200? Just in general, because I feel like I've been losing games due to the fact that there army size is way larger due to less workers and my army just gets rolled without enough time to properly re max.
Edit: More towards TvP/TvZ, and I guess TvT as well. But not really counting on opponents sacking scv's and making orbitals I cut 10 SCVs for every OC above 3. Every 1k I get an additional OC.
I appreciate the response, but it doesn't really answer my question. What I am asking is, not including sacking scv's with orbitals. What is the ideal army-worker ratio at max with money in the bank. In the extreme late games.
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On January 29 2012 03:41 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 02:36 VoO wrote:On January 29 2012 01:27 Arkless wrote:
I have a fairly easy answered question without requiring to post a replay. Is there and ideal amount of scv's to have overall when you're at 200/200? Just in general, because I feel like I've been losing games due to the fact that there army size is way larger due to less workers and my army just gets rolled without enough time to properly re max.
Edit: More towards TvP/TvZ, and I guess TvT as well. But not really counting on opponents sacking scv's and making orbitals I cut 10 SCVs for every OC above 3. Every 1k I get an additional OC. I appreciate the response, but it doesn't really answer my question. What I am asking is, not including sacking scv's with orbitals. What is the ideal army-worker ratio at max with money in the bank. In the extreme late games.
Ideal...? He basically gave you the best answer, cut SCV numbers when you have a bunch of orbitals, depends on the situation whether you cut extremely or not. To be honest if you're asking a rather specific question which obviously no one has a perfect answer to then I really doubt it will make much of a difference in your games
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Hola, new to this strategy section and I was looking for advice on a build that can kill protoss before the 1 or 2 base warpgate timing hits me, like what would a hard counter be? I lose to this constantly when im teching (even when I build bunkers) and would love a build that punishes toss for this warpgate aggression.
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On January 29 2012 08:57 besteady wrote:
Hola, new to this strategy section and I was looking for advice on a build that can kill protoss before the 1 or 2 base warpgate timing hits me, like what would a hard counter be? I lose to this constantly when im teching (even when I build bunkers) and would love a build that punishes toss for this warpgate aggression.
I second this question as it has not been answered for me yet =)
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Hi guys,
what are the optimal response with a 1/1/1 build with 2 cloak banshees against the following protoss strategies:
a) 4Gate
b) phoenix play into collosus
c) 3-4Gate Blink Stalker
d) DT (should be clear)
thx
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Hi guys, i'm looking for an optimal/rough build order on a marine tank build, i've been having a lot of sucess in 1v1 with it, but I feel the build could do with some refining, does anyone know or where to find either a build order, or a pro replay of someone implementing this.
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EPT
