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Mesha
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
When the hotkey isn't usefull anymore you can use it for something else. Flexibility is what you want with this kind of stuff. Sometimes you hotkey, sometime you dont, you bind, overwrite, add, remove from hotkeys, etc... I hotkey cyber when doing 11gate in PvP. Its very important in that strat, for example.. | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On August 10 2012 07:17 HexSCII wrote: Hey, I am having a more "Mechanical problem than a strategic problem. I recently switched up my hotkeys after seeing the Artosis video. My question is do, you guys hotkey the cyber core? It is basically useless after warp gate is done. I hotkey my Core and all upgrade buildings to 0, so I can start upgrades or check on them without looking at my base. I don't think it's that important that it's a nearby hotkey, and I'm used to using 0 from Warcraft 3 (graveyard/hunter's hall), so that's what I use in SC2. You can hit 0 and look at your buildings on the display to see which are upgrading stuff and which aren't, and that's really fast. It's also nice to have them hotkeyed so you don't lose them when you get on 3+ bases and spread your tech all around the place--a wall-off Forge here, a Twilight Council there, a Robo Bay in your main, etc. When I'm done with all the upgrades from a particular building (such as finishing blink and charge on the Twilight), I unhotkey it from 0. Personally, I keep the Core hotkeyed after Warpgate is done because I use stargate in all 3 match-ups and often I go heavily into ground/air compositions, so I want access to starting air weapons quickly, even if I don't have time to look at my base and boost it for a while. That happens a lot to me, actually, because Phoenixes need to be babysat. | ||
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
Stomp these effing 3 basing zergs. | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
It seems that getting the sheild upgrades along with attack and armor would also help out late game pvz where we see some stargate units getting mixed in. usually (at least from what ive seen) protoss players are mixing in some carriers and void rays but they wont have any upgrades and they will be fighting against corruptor broodlord that is sometimes upgraded to 3-3 allready. LIke I said I play terran so plz bear with me if its a dumb question  | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:05 Aveng3r wrote: so I have a question for the protoss community. Is there a reason we dont see triple upgrades (instead of double)? In the leagues below master it seems that nobodys macro is so good that the extra expense would really slow them down elsewhere, but keep in mind i play terran so not spending all your gas in kinda normal for me. It seems that getting the sheild upgrades along with attack and armor would also help out late game pvz where we see some stargate units getting mixed in. usually (at least from what ive seen) protoss players are mixing in some carriers and void rays but they wont have any upgrades and they will be fighting against corruptor broodlord that is sometimes upgraded to 3-3 allready. LIke I said I play terran so plz bear with me if its a dumb question Well one main reason. Gas, Upgrades are expensive and having to get 400-500 gas worth of upgrades really cuts down on tech and big units (HT, colossus) | ||
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etherealfall
Australia476 Posts
In your response as it being viable due to accumulated money. Why not learn to improve mechanics as opposed to finding areas to 'dump' resources? | ||
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rbals0282
United States27 Posts
My worst match-up is PvZ. I think it's because I'm trying to attack the opponent zerg at the wrong times... I remember once when Day9 stated some important game times in one of his dailies... And he said some specific game times when protoss needs to scout, what to look for when you scout, what it means, around what time fellow zergies make BL's and etc etc. So can you guys tell me several things actually? 1. If my initial scouting probe dies without seeing how many gas he/she has, should I send another probe? And usually, at what time does zergs usually take their gases? 2. Can someone tell me generally what build zergs are doing when they take 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 gases when I scout? 3. What time should I scout for his/her 3rd? And should I do it with just a probe? or one zealot? or a zealot AND a stalker? 4. Should I research hallucination for mid-game scouting or should I just go for obs? 5. Someone please tell me general significant times for zergs? like... when they usually make hatchery into liar, when do they make it to hive, when is the Greater Spire done, usually what time do they morph corruptors into BL's, etc. etc. because I remember Day9 saying something about at 16:30 is the best time to attack the zerg player because it's the time zergs are morphing BL's... But I don't remember exactly. Sorry for such a long questionnaire... All of your replies, suggestions, and comments will be appreciated :D Thanks  | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
so I have a question for the protoss community. Is there a reason we dont see triple upgrades (instead of double)? In the leagues below master it seems that nobodys macro is so good that the extra expense would really slow them down elsewhere, but keep in mind i play terran so not spending all your gas in kinda normal for me. It seems that getting the sheild upgrades along with attack and armor would also help out late game pvz where we see some stargate units getting mixed in. usually (at least from what ive seen) protoss players are mixing in some carriers and void rays but they wont have any upgrades and they will be fighting against corruptor broodlord that is sometimes upgraded to 3-3 allready. LIke I said I play terran so plz bear with me if its a dumb question Shield upgrades are more expensive and far less useful than armor/attack. Even then, double upgrades are only really common in PvT, as in PvP and PvZ armor isn't that great. Hi, fellow TL people~ especially protoss & zerg people~ My worst match-up is PvZ. I think it's because I'm trying to attack the opponent zerg at the wrong times... I remember once when Day9 stated some important game times in one of his dailies... And he said some specific game times when protoss needs to scout, what to look for when you scout, what it means, around what time fellow zergies make BL's and etc etc. So can you guys tell me several things actually? 1. If my initial scouting probe dies without seeing how many gas he/she has, should I send another probe? And usually, at what time does zergs usually take their gases? 2. Can someone tell me generally what build zergs are doing when they take 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 gases when I scout? 3. What time should I scout for his/her 3rd? And should I do it with just a probe? or one zealot? or a zealot AND a stalker? 4. Should I research hallucination for mid-game scouting or should I just go for obs? 5. Someone please tell me general significant times for zergs? like... when they usually make hatchery into liar, when do they make it to hive, when is the Greater Spire done, usually what time do they morph corruptors into BL's, etc. etc. because I remember Day9 saying something about at 16:30 is the best time to attack the zerg player because it's the time zergs are morphing BL's... But I don't remember exactly. Sorry for such a long questionnaire... All of your replies, suggestions, and comments will be appreciated :D Thanks I am going to assume you FFE here, if you do oldschool gateway expand not much of this is relevant: 1) Depends on the opening. If you don't see a 3 hatch opening yes because you need to be super paranoid about 1-2 base play like roach/ling, baneling busts, or 2base tech like muta, infestor or even a nydus allin. If you see him taking a 3rd at a standard time, i don't think it's necessary. Normally it's really hard to get all the way in the zerg's main to see the exact gas timing though, especially since the queen buff. 2) The standard 3base roach play takes 2 gasses at 6 minutes or so, and 2 more gasses a bit later. If he goes up all the way to 6 gasses it means he's most likely switching away from roach/ling or pure roach to either infestors, mutas or hydras if he's silly. 3) Off a speedling expand, their nat goes down at around 4.20 ish and 3rd at around 6 minutes. Off 15 pool with no gas, their nat goes down at 2.50 and their third at around 4-4.30. 4) Again depends on your build. Most macro follow ups to FFE scout with either observers or stargate units; if you still sentry expand getting hallucination is nice though. 5) Lair is usually started around 7.30-8 minutes. For Hive, it depends on how greedy they are being and how they react to your play. Assuming you take a third, they opened roach and decided to take a fourth and tech rather than try to bust you with a roach max, Hive would start at around 13 minutes or so. By 16.30 Zerg can definitely have Broodlords and while it will never be that super scary critical mass that can only be killed with an Archon Toilet, it's still a bit late for a pre-hive timing attack because most likely his spine wall will also be up; you should aim to hit him about one minute earlier than that afaik. Keep in mind that if he does go for some pressure on your third instead, his timings will all most likely be delayed by a couple of minutes. | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On August 10 2012 17:03 Teoita wrote:Shield upgrades are more expensive and far less useful than armor/attack. Even then, double upgrades are only really common in PvT, as in PvP and PvZ armor isn't that great You're definitely correct, but I feel like there's a bit more to elaborate on shields. If your army uses a lot of archons against Marines, Zerglings, or Mutas, they tank way more efficiently with +shields. Archons are also going to survive a bit longer against broodlings with +shields, which means living that second or two longer and being able to move just a little closer to actually get under the broodlords and do some damage before dying. Blink Stalkers are also going to benefit from +shields more than they would from +armor. When they engage, they always tank 80 shields, but the health could be anywhere from 1 to 80. The upside to armor with this unit is that they already have a base 1 armor, as with all protoss units. But if you're using your blink stalkers 2-3 times or more to engage and recharge, then shields are more useful than armor. Obviously if you're just using stalkers to get some mobility going and your main army unit is the zealot, I understand prioritizing zealots and going with armor instead of shields...but with heavy stalker compositions there is a lot of merit to going with some shield upgrades as the secondary to ground weapons. In fact, if you're using any kind of hit-and-run tactics or harassment, you probably want some shield upgrades because you're going to be getting a lot of mileage out of those recharging shields. Then there is the consideration of an army which is a combination of both ground and air units. While Zealots and Phoenixes both benefit from their respective armor upgrades than they do from shields, you can cover more ground by going with ground weapons, air weapons, and shields with that kind of mix. Eventually, these compositions want Archons and Carriers, which have well over 100 shields each--as wel as the capability to be microed away. Furthermore, if you upgrade your shields, your buildings tank significant more damage against high dps units like Marines, Zealots, Zerglings, Mutas, and Hydras. That can make a big difference if your opponent goes in to snipe a Nexus and each shot does 1 or 2 less damage over the course of 1000 shields, and it doesn't hurt that your pylons and cannons are a bit more protected. While in PvT you get weapons and armor before starting shields because of EMPs on your army, shields eventually are still useful due to your buildings being more safe against drops/building snipes in the late game with more shields. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
Now in PvP I think shield Ups might even be better than Armor since you want Archons to tank and Zealots will not benefit from armor vs Colossi/Archon, however it is hard to time that right and the resources you put into that might be what you need to stay alive. In PvZ I am not yet 100% certain, on the one hand I use Blinkstalkers and Archons a lot in my main army, on the other hand I use lots of Zealots to harass. Now you might think that the main army obviously is more important, however the harassment units will be attacked by very fast Zerg units, mainly Zerglings. Against Zerglings Armor is just crazy good and the rest of my units also get value out of armor. Also you have to factor in that +armor / +shield gets better the higher tha actual value. going from 3 armor to 4 against Marines with 6 Damage takes away a third of the damage, going from 1 to 2 takes away only 20%. No Protoss Unit in the game starts with any form of shield armor. that makes it a pretty unattractive upgrade. I don't understand why Blizzard does it though, why can't you say that a fragile unit like a Colossus or a Carrier cannot take a lot of hull damage and thus relies more on their shields.. Really tough one, especially since you will never know whether you gained an advantage in a game, getting shield instead of armor. I think it would consume too much time for me to find that out, I trust Korean coaches looked into it and decided to go with armor, so I will just do the same. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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Vernay
United Kingdom76 Posts
Iv only been playing sc 6 days now, but after placing in bronze im now high gold with a high plat MMR, so im kind of facing people who know way more about the mechanics of the game than me :/ My problem is that i have been relying timing pushes to achieve good win rates - generally im using 12 minuet doom pushes to put me in the lead by denying 3rd's and on occasion, even the natural. but as im gaining MMR, my opponents can now scout and anticipate my builds far better than what they were a few days ago, in PvP and PvZ this isn't really an issue, as my timings are strong enough for me to still force wins with simple pushes. but in PvT ( which seems to be, historically, a more late game match up ) i'v started to fail really badly, because i have yet to have to consider transitioning out of mid game for the majority of my games up to this point :/ So what im really asking, is does anyone have any advice on how to use timing pushes vs T that smoothly transition into mid/late game team comps? or indeed, how many production buildings i can support late game, as at the moment, i seem to be rather hit and miss with over producing gates and robos late, or not producing enough :/ Sorry if this was poorly worded, for some reason i haven't been able to fall asleep in 2 days despite spending 4 hours laying in bed :/ many thanks in advance. Vern | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
Here is a PvT where I took a third later than I would have liked, and lost the big engagement near my third. It was on antiga. I feel like I had lost the game the moment he took the gold and was able to deny mine. Please let me know how I can improve so that I stop losing terribly to Terrans. + Show Spoiler + This one here had the Terran at slightly favoured and I am around 900 points in master league in case anyone is wondering. I spoilered it because idk how important my ladder rank is :/ | ||
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Vernay
United Kingdom76 Posts
On August 11 2012 02:55 ZeromuS wrote: My PvT remains pretty bad. I've been able to become a little more stable but need some help (big major help) with my engagements. In addition I need some help in knowing where and how to take my third. I always feel like I take it too late. Here is a PvT where I took a third later than I would have liked, and lost the big engagement near my third. It was on antiga. I feel like I had lost the game the moment he took the gold and was able to deny mine. Please let me know how I can improve so that I stop losing terribly to Terrans. + Show Spoiler + This one here had the Terran at slightly favoured and I am around 900 points in master league in case anyone is wondering. I spoilered it because idk how important my ladder rank is :/ ermm, it seems like your talking as if you have attached a replay, "Here is a PvT " but there is no replay attached yet, might want to edit that | ||
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nereme
United Kingdom32 Posts
I usually go for 3 gates with my first base then 4 after that dropping a gate for tech such as a robo. so if im on 3 bases I will have about 11 gates a robo and a forge then just as i get ready to push i will drop 5 or 6 more gates to reinforce quickly as your minerals start to quickly pile up. though keeping your macro up will help in this with the forward pylon for warp ins you might not need as many extra gates just if yo suffer a big battle being able to warp in 15 gates work might just win it for you | ||
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Vernay
United Kingdom76 Posts
On August 11 2012 03:42 nereme wrote: Hi I am a bit lower that you but from here is what i do regarding buildings it might help till a higher level player can give the definitive answer. I usually go for 3 gates with my first base then 4 after that dropping a gate for tech such as a robo. so if im on 3 bases I will have about 11 gates a robo and a forge then just as i get ready to push i will drop 5 or 6 more gates to reinforce quickly as your minerals start to quickly pile up. though keeping your macro up will help in this with the forward pylon for warp ins you might not need as many extra gates just if yo suffer a big battle being able to warp in 15 gates work might just win it for you cheers, will use this as a base on my ladder games for now! <3 | ||
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SkaPunk
United States471 Posts
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nereme
United Kingdom32 Posts
On August 11 2012 03:49 Vernay wrote: cheers, will use this as a base on my ladder games for now! <3 Not a problem mate Few other little things, You can play this a few ways like you can change it into a FE by taking the first gate and then getting your expansion up then dropping gates 2 and 3, but I will say when I expand to my natural I drop a robo along with my 4th gate so that I can scout quickly but thats just me. I like to know whats happening as much as i can. It does come down to a point of feel and for what you scout. Like if i see my opponent get a fast expand (most zerg) I will go 1 gate FE then return to normal otherwise i usually get my 3 gates and warpgate on the way/ if not done then expand. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On August 11 2012 03:26 Vernay wrote: ermm, it seems like your talking as if you have attached a replay, "Here is a PvT " but there is no replay attached yet, might want to edit that http://drop.sc/236295 My PvT remains pretty bad. I've been able to become a little more stable but need some help (big major help) with my engagements. In addition I need some help in knowing where and how to take my third. I always feel like I take it too late. Here is a PvT where I took a third later than I would have liked, and lost the big engagement near my third. It was on antiga. I feel like I had lost the game the moment he took the gold and was able to deny mine. Please let me know how I can improve so that I stop losing terribly to Terrans. + Show Spoiler + This one here had the Terran at slightly favoured and I am around 900 points in master league in case anyone is wondering. I spoilered it because idk how important my ladder rank is :/ Repost with a link to the replay. | ||
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