EPT
How many more gates should I be adding with each expo? As thats something I have never really known and tend to get to many as I mentioned above?
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 295
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nereme
United Kingdom32 Posts
How many more gates should I be adding with each expo? As thats something I have never really known and tend to get to many as I mentioned above? | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 27 2012 21:40 nereme wrote: Cheers for that one How many more gates should I be adding with each expo? As thats something I have never really known and tend to get to many as I mentioned above? The max production of gateway units without upgrades is about 4 gates per base. That being said, players will either 1) go up to 8 gateways after expanding and attack a lot, or 2) go up to 6 gateways after expanding so they can afford upgrades/robo tech. | ||
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scsequeL
47 Posts
*Send out 2 stalked to watch tower and he made hellions in my base from factory, after that i got hit with cloak banshees which I never expected due to the 1 rax pressure with marauders. http://drop.sc/229252 | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On July 27 2012 21:40 nereme wrote: Cheers for that one How many more gates should I be adding with each expo? As thats something I have never really known and tend to get to many as I mentioned above? Well, with continous production each base can support 4, but you want some resources for expansions and upgrades aswell, which is why you only get 3 before expanding Once you've maxed out just add a boatload so you can remax quickly. | ||
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nereme
United Kingdom32 Posts
With the upgrades im guessing get as much as I can from the forges before maxing so if i can get +2/+2 then i should | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On July 27 2012 23:50 nereme wrote: Ok will go for 3 per base as i expand then add more when i push and get close to max. With the upgrades im guessing get as much as I can from the forges before maxing so if i can get +2/+2 then i should Get 3 for the first base, then 4 per expansion. And yes, as many upgrades as possible, which will lead to twilight council ofc, so you may want to pick up blink when you're at it | ||
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MikeyH
United States44 Posts
On July 28 2012 00:36 TheExodus wrote: Get 3 for the first base, then 4 per expansion. And yes, as many upgrades as possible, which will lead to twilight council ofc, so you may want to pick up blink when you're at it Holy crap, this is exactly what I've been looking for too. I keep trying to get a nice safe build to practice with but I've been wanting something more straightforward. Thanks for this! | ||
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GriNn
United States243 Posts
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whistle
United States141 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251528¤tpage=282#5637 In terms of matchup guides written by people who actually know what they're talking about, I guess the PvZ macro guide in that link is the main one I can think of. Here is a PvP observing guide; not much on execution but good if you have no idea what you're doing anymore http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329091. Can't really think of any recent PvT guides apart from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292549, but that's not what I'd consider "standard" PvT even though it's common. | ||
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nereme
United Kingdom32 Posts
On July 27 2012 21:23 TheExodus wrote: To win a lot of games in bronze while practicing macro, just do this: Get three gates and two assimilators, constantly probes and warp in stalkers. When you have 16 probes on minerals (2 lines when selected), expand. Take 2 assimilators on the expansion, get 4 more gates and 2 forges. Do double upgrades while building probes and stalkers and upgrading and expanding when you reach saturation. When you hit 200/200 attack. You'll win most games as long as you always build probes, don't miss warp cycles and get upgrades. I have tried this out in a few games on the ladder today and every time i hit 200/200 I push them usually I also have 3/3 by this point. The porblem I have is I hit in and do what seems like alot of damage to them but they just recover kill off my stalkers and I can't rebuild fast enough compared to them. I have 2 replays here from those matches where when i started to attack I felt good about my push but soon it stopped going well and I just end up losing badly. I know my macro slips at times but if you can point out where that would be great. the other thing is when i am building up stalkers I cant always do a full warp in cycle is this hurting me or should i warp in as many as i can when i can then warp more when i can afford it? http://drop.sc/229609 http://drop.sc/229610 Nereme | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On July 28 2012 17:18 nereme wrote: I have tried this out in a few games on the ladder today and every time i hit 200/200 I push them usually I also have 3/3 by this point. The porblem I have is I hit in and do what seems like alot of damage to them but they just recover kill off my stalkers and I can't rebuild fast enough compared to them. I have 2 replays here from those matches where when i started to attack I felt good about my push but soon it stopped going well and I just end up losing badly. I know my macro slips at times but if you can point out where that would be great. the other thing is when i am building up stalkers I cant always do a full warp in cycle is this hurting me or should i warp in as many as i can when i can then warp more when i can afford it? http://drop.sc/229609 http://drop.sc/229610 Nereme I'll try and look at the replays a bit later (workers at the house atm, have to keep an eye on them), but if you've already hit 3/3 at the time you max out your macro is most likely slipping. Do you spend all your chrono on probes? | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On July 28 2012 17:18 nereme wrote: I have tried this out in a few games on the ladder today and every time i hit 200/200 I push them usually I also have 3/3 by this point. The porblem I have is I hit in and do what seems like alot of damage to them but they just recover kill off my stalkers and I can't rebuild fast enough compared to them. I have 2 replays here from those matches where when i started to attack I felt good about my push but soon it stopped going well and I just end up losing badly. I know my macro slips at times but if you can point out where that would be great. the other thing is when i am building up stalkers I cant always do a full warp in cycle is this hurting me or should i warp in as many as i can when i can then warp more when i can afford it? http://drop.sc/229609 http://drop.sc/229610 Nereme I actually had a look right now. You're missing quite a few workers, you miss chrono on probes, gateways are idle, the timing of your natural is great but the third is too late and the fourth WAAAAAY too late. Atleast in the first game, didn't look specifically at it in the second, you waited far too long with adding gateways after taking your natural. Also, once you hit 200/200, add BOATLOADS of gates so you can instantly reinforce. tl;dr - Your macro was slipping so much your attack was severely delayed, so you opponents were on 1-3 more bases than you. Keep practicing that macro Edit: I just tried doing this build (haven't used it in a long time) and I got pylon blocked a lot, but at 10 minutes I still had 20 workers more than you did in that first game. If I hadn't been pylon blocked that would probably have been 30 more workers, atleast. Also notice how you're way ahead on workers at about 5.40-5 mins, but as soon as your natural is established he catches up and comes out ahead. 20-30 workers more would've powered all your gates without any problems at all, and allowed you to sink a large trust fund into more gates when maxed | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
The main reason you lost that second game was because you let your opponent expand all over the map. He had 4 bases as you were establishing your 3rd. The other main reason was that you you lost your army twice to DTs when you let your observer die (to cannons, I think). It isn't easy to do, but look after your observers. Furthermore, your army was split at crucial points of the game. You had bits of army at your natural and another bit outside your natural. Both of these could have been with your main army (ideally with a spare observer). Also, Stalkers are not that strong against cannons. So, don't attack blindly into entrenched cannons. You have blink, so try and go around them. Finally, SC2 can be damn frustrating. You may do a lot of things right, but still lose due to a silly mistake, a poor decision, a misread, bad luck, or your opponent perhaps doing the good things you do better than you. Either way, don't rage quit. It can be real tough sometimes, but take a deep breath and remember to say "gg'. Good luck. | ||
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nereme
United Kingdom32 Posts
Exodus: what game time were you getting maxed out with this build? EDIT exodus any chance you could upload a replay of you doing the build and strat so i can look at the timings, chrono use and stuff like that please? And I need to remember to chrono more throughout the game and will focus it on probes and will endevour to take an earlier 3rd and 4th base to help me race to max quickly. and zealot your saying that if im on 3 bases i should have 12 gates and 16 gates on 4 bases? before i max it | ||
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YesEvil
Australia44 Posts
Desperately need help in PvZ. I am plat on NA but Diamond on SEA, all I ever see Zerg doing is going mass Muta. Its ridiculous because no matter what I do I can't defend all my bases at once, i try stalker archon --> not enough gas. I try pure archon --> slow and they just dance around bases. Even if i split my archons up they will get to a critical mass. I have tried hitting right on their spire, but on 2 base I struggle to get a force up before they get 3 base muta tech. Early aggro fails against the spines they put up, and some cheap unit defense. What am I supposed to do? Every single time, they go mutas, and I try blink stalker, archons and both and it doesn't work. No point going pheonixes when they can out produce you by sooo much, even with the range buff they will just go for eco. plz help. | ||
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medic_ro
Romania105 Posts
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PeggyHill
1494 Posts
On July 29 2012 00:03 YesEvil wrote: Hey all, Desperately need help in PvZ. I am plat on NA but Diamond on SEA, all I ever see Zerg doing is going mass Muta. Its ridiculous because no matter what I do I can't defend all my bases at once, i try stalker archon --> not enough gas. I try pure archon --> slow and they just dance around bases. Even if i split my archons up they will get to a critical mass. I have tried hitting right on their spire, but on 2 base I struggle to get a force up before they get 3 base muta tech. Early aggro fails against the spines they put up, and some cheap unit defense. What am I supposed to do? Every single time, they go mutas, and I try blink stalker, archons and both and it doesn't work. No point going pheonixes when they can out produce you by sooo much, even with the range buff they will just go for eco. plz help. Storm. Stalker will fend off small amounts of muta, but as your are experiencing once they get to a critical mass stalkers dont cut it. Storm is the only way to deal with huge amounts of muta. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
If you opened stargate, you can also restart phoenix production to about 10 while getting phoenix range and +1. Once range finishes you should outmicro every muta on the field easily. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On July 28 2012 21:10 nereme wrote: Cheers for the advice guys will get some more practice in tonight against an easy PC just so i can get the practice of doing it all with no chance of being attacked. Exodus: what game time were you getting maxed out with this build? EDIT exodus any chance you could upload a replay of you doing the build and strat so i can look at the timings, chrono use and stuff like that please? And I need to remember to chrono more throughout the game and will focus it on probes and will endevour to take an earlier 3rd and 4th base to help me race to max quickly. and zealot your saying that if im on 3 bases i should have 12 gates and 16 gates on 4 bases? before i max it I just played for 10 minutes to get some benchmarks. I can try running through until max later tonight, practice against AI in the meantime | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 29 2012 00:03 YesEvil wrote: Hey all, Desperately need help in PvZ. I am plat on NA but Diamond on SEA, all I ever see Zerg doing is going mass Muta. Its ridiculous because no matter what I do I can't defend all my bases at once, i try stalker archon --> not enough gas. I try pure archon --> slow and they just dance around bases. Even if i split my archons up they will get to a critical mass. I have tried hitting right on their spire, but on 2 base I struggle to get a force up before they get 3 base muta tech. Early aggro fails against the spines they put up, and some cheap unit defense. What am I supposed to do? Every single time, they go mutas, and I try blink stalker, archons and both and it doesn't work. No point going pheonixes when they can out produce you by sooo much, even with the range buff they will just go for eco. plz help. Yeah, just get an early storm. Storm will actually make you fairly invincible to muta/ling, you just have to defend until then. Think of it like a rubber band effect; you'll be stuck defending defending defending, then all of a sudden your tech will catch up (+2 attack, storm, blink). At that point, you can actually move out on the map with a small group of stalkers/HT/sentries while doing warp-in shenanigans elsewhere for a bunch of multipronged attacks. Check up on Day9 Daily 415: Day9 #415 | ||
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