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TC_Beynbio
Norway81 Posts
next is: Late game against brood lords and lots and lots of roaches and hydras. I struggle with build in the late game but no in the early game. It seems that my opponent zerg just makes a lot of corruptors and saves them up for brood lords. Anyone game give some tips? | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
I'm tired of getting into macro games with Zerg, at the moment, where I either hold off hordes of Roaches or hordes of Broodlords, or, just for a break, hordes of Mutalisks. I'm not that keen on Immortal/Sentry although I have tried it a little and been successful with it the few times I got the timing right (hit before ~11.00). So, I'd like to try the above just so that I can get the match-up out of the way asap. (Yeah, yeah, it's not the best way to improve etc but that's how I feel right now.) So, should I be hitting with my first warp cycle? Around~8.00? 7 warped in units plus my initial 2 Zealots and Stalker? I'll practice against the AI before taking it on the road. Thanks chaps. | ||
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Goatnotsheep
Canada2 Posts
here 2 sample replays of my garbage PvT http://drop.sc/223613 http://drop.sc/223615 thanks | ||
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Rasputincz
Czech Republic95 Posts
Any help will be appreciated. Btw eu top dia toss. | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On July 18 2012 16:15 Rasputincz wrote: Hey guys im curious what is the best transition from 3 gate pressure in pvt? I go for mc safe 1 gate build to expand and then i pressure terran's base around 8:00 with 4 sentries, 2 stalkers and rest zealots but what is the best transition? usually i immediately go for kinda early third base and add two gases on nat + robo bay (i make robo while im pressuring). But i found that build kinda greedy cuz my next three gates are gonna be a bit later and when the terran goes for hard two base pressure with e.g. 5 rax 2/4 medivacs i will get raped. Any suggestions? Any help will be appreciated. Btw eu top dia toss. Respect the timing windows. If you take a third, you need to be wary of the timing window where the terran has stim, +1, and medivacs while you're powering up and just establishing AoE. Maybe you shouldn't be expanding at this point in the game--it sounds pretty suicidal from my experience. | ||
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Rasputincz
Czech Republic95 Posts
On July 18 2012 16:25 ineversmile wrote: Respect the timing windows. If you take a third, you need to be wary of the timing window where the terran has stim, +1, and medivacs while you're powering up and just establishing AoE. Maybe you shouldn't be expanding at this point in the game--it sounds pretty suicidal from my experience. What build would recomment then? If not a fast third what should i go after dealing some damage with 3 gate push? Adding two gasses and going for fast colosi out of two base or? | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On July 18 2012 16:58 Rasputincz wrote: What build would recomment then? If not a fast third what should i go after dealing some damage with 3 gate push? Adding two gasses and going for fast colosi out of two base or? The problem is that you're trying to take a third behind pressure while you tech. You're attacking, expanding, and teching simultaneously. If your opponent moves out with a normal timing window, you're going to get wrecked because you're doing too many things at once. I would have to see some replays to understand how you define the 3-gate pressure, more specifically--but if it's like most gateway attacks into bunkered positions, it probably involves trading zealots and forcefields for some marines and a little bit of mining time. If you can wreck your opponent with the pressure and force him up the ramp, that's a totally different story--that's 2 base vs 1 base for a while and you can just forcefield the ramp a few times and then go home and be happy with 2 base vs delayed 2 base. But if you're not breaking your opponent and then pushing him up the ramp and making him lift his orbital, then you are stuck with just gateway units. That's the downside of pressure builds--if the pressure doesn't work, you're behind in tech and even in economy. | ||
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whistle
United States141 Posts
On July 18 2012 11:46 Goatnotsheep wrote: Hi everyone, mid diamond Protoss here. I really have no idea how to play PvT at all. I find that every time I try to match the terran expand I'm a bit short on units when they push, and when I try to one base all in their 14cc, I get destroyed myself. I'm not really sure what my unit composition is supposed to be early on, I try to rush for chargelot collosus but it hasn't been working very well either. I was wondering if anyone can run over PvT metagame, and what my objectives early on should be? here 2 sample replays of my garbage PvT http://drop.sc/223613 http://drop.sc/223615 thanks Well game one you lose because you execute an all in terribly and he is almost double your worker supply with no army damage after you back off. Why didn't you check his gas in this game? That's the single most important piece of scouting info you can get early game PvT. Game two your macro slips and you float 900 minerals while executing a nice zealot/stalker poke... you kill six workers but if you look at the worker counts, they are at exactly where they should be after you back off (about 29 probes to 27 scvs). Except your nexus is later and your production is later. So you're behind despite doing what appears to be massive damage. These aren't very good example games because you basically lose both of them at 8 minutes without anything interesting happening. However - what I can take away from these is that (1) you are bad at spending your money (2) your multitasking could use work; unfortunately there's not much I can really say to help you here besides "practice". I can help a bit with the PvT plan though. The easiest style to learn/most standard way to play (although not my personal preference) is to defend aggression by opening colossus while upgrading, expanding, and teching to templar; then crushing terran late game. After a 1 gate FE and adding 2 more gates and a robotics, you want to get 3-4 sentries and enough zealots to deflect non-medivac pressure. Stalkers are not the best in a direct engagement but if your opponent goes for a heavy rax powering build you can kite marines across the map with them. Try to stick to mostly zealots after you get your core sentries since stalkers cut into your gas. You can get anywhere from 0-2 immortals before colossus depending on how many marauders you spot. Add a forge and a robotics bay, get upgrades and colossus. Add gates 4-6 in time for his medivac pressure (10 mins optimally, probably 11-12 minutes in diamond). Deflect pressure, expand, continue upgrades (twilight ups and perhaps double forge at this point), then transition into templar once you have "enough" colossus, usually 2-3. Late game you want to abuse mass warpin, storm, and tech switches. This is a gross simplification of the PvT metagame but it's what most people would consider standard macro play. It's very hard to give you anything other than the most generic advice, though... do you have any better replays of macro games? | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On July 18 2012 05:31 TC_Beynbio wrote: I am a EU silver league player and i struggle in PVZ. I do the best i can, but sometimes i lose to zerg in long macro games. I do always FFE against a hatchery first and block the natural like most players do, and the result is the zerg having to take the third. Am i doing this right or what? next is: Late game against brood lords and lots and lots of roaches and hydras. I struggle with build in the late game but no in the early game. It seems that my opponent zerg just makes a lot of corruptors and saves them up for brood lords. Anyone game give some tips? Hey I really hope this will help. In silver league most important is to get your macro to decent level. To do that there is a great topic on Macrostomping your opponents http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187162 Basically a guy got to diamond with just pure stalkers. So I gave it a try and it worked out well from then my winrate skyrocketed and i got from silver to top gold pretty soon. There things got a little complicated due to timings and players were doing a good responce to your mass stalkers. TL;DR Read the article. Focus on your macro = always build probes and pylons. Usually you should be able to walk over your opponent before BL, but if they are out - blink stalkers do a good job against them. glhf. | ||
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animus128
Germany43 Posts
because of Diablo 3 I havent played much since I got into silver! Now I want to start playing again but the problem is I can't focus on my macro mechanics like building Probes and Pylons and not banking up to much money if I don't have a cear build in mind! So can you guys suggest me some good macro oriented builds for every match up? Please keep in mind that I'm only silver so I can't pull off all builds. Also it would be awesome if you guys could also tell me what to look out for when scouting and how to react to it! It doesnt have to be super in depth, just some links to the builds on TL and a few words about them would be enough! Edit: If someone already asks the same (I'm pretty sure someone did) just link me to his post please. Its really hard to search for post in such a huge thread! | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
On July 18 2012 23:25 animus128 wrote: Hey guys, because of Diablo 3 I havent played much since I got into silver! Now I want to start playing again but the problem is I can't focus on my macro mechanics like building Probes and Pylons and not banking up to much money if I don't have a cear build in mind! So can you guys suggest me some good macro oriented builds for every match up? Please keep in mind that I'm only silver so I can't pull off all builds. Also it would be awesome if you guys could also tell me what to look out for when scouting and how to react to it! It doesnt have to be super in depth, just some links to the builds on TL and a few words about them would be enough! Edit: If someone already asks the same (I'm pretty sure someone did) just link me to his post please. Its really hard to search for post in such a huge thread! PvP: 3 gate robo into expand and then colossus, safe an solid for silver level play. PvZ: 14 forge - 17 nexus - 17 gate - 17 cannon - 17 pylon into basically whatever involving saturare the bases, recommend colossus PvT: 1 gate expand into 3 gate robo with colossus From there just build probes and spend resources, add more production and tech, dont leave your base untill you decide to kill him | ||
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animus128
Germany43 Posts
 I will try to use them and i will see how it goes! | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13379 Posts
I always seem to be mis positioned when attacking in PvP. For example, tonight I had void rays, archons and even collossus count as the opponent. I missed a feedback on his mothership by one second and got hit with a vortex. How can I work on engaging better? Is there a custom map to practice splitting your army for a fight? Also, HOW should I be thinking of engaging and moving in to engage an opponent? I have the most difficulty on Ohana PvP as I tend to always funnel into a good position there. On a seperate note, I really need some advice for PvZ. I will upload a replay but I am very lost as to how to engage broodlord corrupter well especially when I can't nail a vortex. It feels like, I need to hit a vortex in order to win against Broodlord infestor armies especially when there are a lot of corrupters. Inthe replay I am uploading here, I am able to kill the first wave then the opponent gets a max on corrupters, kills whatever I have left in the air and then morphs broodlords and I am unable to finish him off because I can't kill the new BL army. Apparently, SC2 didn't autosave any of the replays from the game today So I can not upload it. When I come across the situation in the future I will post it. I guess for now, it will suffice to learn how I am supposed to transition into carriers I guess, since I was told carriers are good against broodlord, corrupter infestor and many many spinecrawlers. In the engagement I had a ton of blink stalkers, used feedback to kill the infestors. Throughout the game I had been using warp prisms to harass and deny additional bases. | ||
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iremnant3847
Taiwan269 Posts
Should I immediately assume that a Zerg opponent will go for a 2Base Roach bust on Taldarim Altar since the third is blocked by destructible rocks? If not, where should I scout for the third? How can I deal with a 2Rax push when I have 3 gateways and a Robo nearing completion? I usually have a Nexus at my natural that has just finished when this push arrives. | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
On July 19 2012 16:45 vizi wrote: In a late game PvZ situation, is it more wise to use Dark Templars over High Templars to create Archons in order to save gas? Should I immediately assume that a Zerg opponent will go for a 2Base Roach bust on Taldarim Altar since the third is blocked by destructible rocks? If not, where should I scout for the third? How can I deal with a 2Rax push when I have 3 gateways and a Robo nearing completion? I usually have a Nexus at my natural that has just finished when this push arrives. First question, i belive it is dependent on the resources in your bank, if you have lots of gas HTs is better, lots of minerals DTs are better. second, You should never asume things in SC2, scout the possible thirds of the zerg and if he has not taken that before 5:30 or so build another cannon and possible crono some sentries. third, to defend 2 racks with minimal losses on smaller maps you need to have clutch timing with your warpgates/gateways. Don't be afraid to pull alot of probes to defend as opponents command center will be very far behind. Howevery 2 racks is not that common in master league and above because protoss learned to defend it properly and because most maps are so big compared to a year ago. | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
On July 19 2012 11:18 ZeromuS wrote: I was wondering if other people have any idea about how to improve their engagements? I always seem to be mis positioned when attacking in PvP. For example, tonight I had void rays, archons and even collossus count as the opponent. I missed a feedback on his mothership by one second and got hit with a vortex. How can I work on engaging better? Is there a custom map to practice splitting your army for a fight? Also, HOW should I be thinking of engaging and moving in to engage an opponent? I have the most difficulty on Ohana PvP as I tend to always funnel into a good position there. On a seperate note, I really need some advice for PvZ. I will upload a replay but I am very lost as to how to engage broodlord corrupter well especially when I can't nail a vortex. It feels like, I need to hit a vortex in order to win against Broodlord infestor armies especially when there are a lot of corrupters. Inthe replay I am uploading here, I am able to kill the first wave then the opponent gets a max on corrupters, kills whatever I have left in the air and then morphs broodlords and I am unable to finish him off because I can't kill the new BL army. Apparently, SC2 didn't autosave any of the replays from the game today So I can not upload it. When I come across the situation in the future I will post it. I guess for now, it will suffice to learn how I am supposed to transition into carriers I guess, since I was told carriers are good against broodlord, corrupter infestor and many many spinecrawlers. In the engagement I had a ton of blink stalkers, used feedback to kill the infestors. Throughout the game I had been using warp prisms to harass and deny additional bases. It's often better to let the other player make the aggresive move against your army, try to get a good arc and do some pre fight adjustment such as zealots in front, HTs spread out, colossus in an arch, prepare for forcefielding and whatever else you need to do before a fight. If you want to practice splitting mechanics i suggest marine splitting game, splitting is not very important for protoss is most situations. PvZ lategame is balanced around vortex, if you cant hit a good vortex you lose if you fight head to head once zerg has hit a certain number of broodlords/infestors. Dont let zerg get that army comp or hit that vortex next time. You can engage smaler brood/infestor armys with blink stalker and alot of colossus to deal with infestors/broodlings. Carriers are not really great, they are only good if they come by supprice. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On July 19 2012 16:45 vizi wrote: In a late game PvZ situation, is it more wise to use Dark Templars over High Templars to create Archons in order to save gas? Should I immediately assume that a Zerg opponent will go for a 2Base Roach bust on Taldarim Altar since the third is blocked by destructible rocks? If not, where should I scout for the third? How can I deal with a 2Rax push when I have 3 gateways and a Robo nearing completion? I usually have a Nexus at my natural that has just finished when this push arrives. Depends on the units you want to use with them. I'd go with High Templars because you can go chargelots with all of the minerals you have left, and those work extremely well with Archons in PvZ. Then you can get mothership for toilet or stalkers for anti-air from there, with zealots soaking up damage while your big units get the job done. Also, with HT's you have storm if the situation calls for it, which I find to far be more useful in lategame than DT harassment. Could you rephrase that second question a bit? I'm confused if you're asking if he'll knock the rocks down or what to do if you've scouted the rocks still up. Try MC's 1 gate FE... it should work against 2 rax pressure. I've got some questions of my own. PvP, what's a good double robo build to use? Also, in PvZ by the time my 3 attack upgrades are done, I have about 6-8 Void Rays with the beef of my army being chargelot archon, and I'm about to add colossus and mothership to my lategame army. With a lot of shield-heavy units in the mix, should I make shield or armor upgrades at my Forge? | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13379 Posts
On July 19 2012 23:14 Fus wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 11:18 ZeromuS wrote: I was wondering if other people have any idea about how to improve their engagements? I always seem to be mis positioned when attacking in PvP. For example, tonight I had void rays, archons and even collossus count as the opponent. I missed a feedback on his mothership by one second and got hit with a vortex. How can I work on engaging better? Is there a custom map to practice splitting your army for a fight? Also, HOW should I be thinking of engaging and moving in to engage an opponent? I have the most difficulty on Ohana PvP as I tend to always funnel into a good position there. On a seperate note, I really need some advice for PvZ. I will upload a replay but I am very lost as to how to engage broodlord corrupter well especially when I can't nail a vortex. It feels like, I need to hit a vortex in order to win against Broodlord infestor armies especially when there are a lot of corrupters. Inthe replay I am uploading here, I am able to kill the first wave then the opponent gets a max on corrupters, kills whatever I have left in the air and then morphs broodlords and I am unable to finish him off because I can't kill the new BL army. Apparently, SC2 didn't autosave any of the replays from the game today So I can not upload it. When I come across the situation in the future I will post it. I guess for now, it will suffice to learn how I am supposed to transition into carriers I guess, since I was told carriers are good against broodlord, corrupter infestor and many many spinecrawlers. In the engagement I had a ton of blink stalkers, used feedback to kill the infestors. Throughout the game I had been using warp prisms to harass and deny additional bases. It's often better to let the other player make the aggresive move against your army, try to get a good arc and do some pre fight adjustment such as zealots in front, HTs spread out, colossus in an arch, prepare for forcefielding and whatever else you need to do before a fight. If you want to practice splitting mechanics i suggest marine splitting game, splitting is not very important for protoss is most situations. PvZ lategame is balanced around vortex, if you cant hit a good vortex you lose if you fight head to head once zerg has hit a certain number of broodlords/infestors. Dont let zerg get that army comp or hit that vortex next time. You can engage smaler brood/infestor armys with blink stalker and alot of colossus to deal with infestors/broodlings. Carriers are not really great, they are only good if they come by supprice. Thanks I will try to do more pressure with my main army throughout the game to delay the broodlords if I can. I am going to try what Day 9 went over as I saw MC do it in GSL as well though MC does transition into some collossi as well if he sees a commitment to lair tech it looks like. I am thinking working in drops is only something I should do after a fast 4th base since it takes a lot of resources to support drops and make them actually good and useful. Either an earlier 4th or an ultra fast 3rd base. I started to play some off Many many thor builds as well lately. I do not know why but I have been seeing it. Its hard to drop because of a large number of missile turrets. What I want to know is how to effectively deal with this. I tried templar for fedback and a lot of immortals but the strike cannons would shut down my immortals and blue flame hellions covered the thors enough that I wasn't able to feedback too effectively before the fight. I was told to make a lot of zealots, has anyone else had any success or tips? I am mid masters and my macro was keeping up for the most part with the opponent as I was often one base up on the opponent. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13379 Posts
On July 19 2012 23:16 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Depends on the units you want to use with them. I'd go with High Templars because you can go chargelots with all of the minerals you have left, and those work extremely well with Archons in PvZ. Then you can get mothership for toilet or stalkers for anti-air from there, with zealots soaking up damage while your big units get the job done. Also, with HT's you have storm if the situation calls for it, which I find to far be more useful in lategame than DT harassment. Could you rephrase that second question a bit? I'm confused if you're asking if he'll knock the rocks down or what to do if you've scouted the rocks still up. Try MC's 1 gate FE... it should work against 2 rax pressure. I've got some questions of my own. PvP, what's a good double robo build to use? Also, in PvZ by the time my 3 attack upgrades are done, I have about 6-8 Void Rays with the beef of my army being chargelot archon, and I'm about to add colossus and mothership to my lategame army. With a lot of shield-heavy units in the mix, should I make shield or armor upgrades at my Forge? Shield upgrades should come after armour generally. Though if the main goal is to have air units or units with a lot of shields I can understand upgrading +1 shields before +3 armor since the shields will help a lot and +3 armour costs more. | ||
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Smancer
United States379 Posts
Similar to how minigun would fake an expansion into four gate versus zerg a couple patches ago. The idea is to do a very strong 8 gate attack with +2 attack with warpprism instead of forward pylons. The idea here is to hide all signs of aggression. Strategic placing of the gates is required so that it would take 2 overlord scouts to count them all. Of course making sure the Zerg sees the third go down is a big part. After FFE, bring two probes to my third. I do this intentially expecting there to be a ling there waiting. If I bring a stalker or anything else I risky killing the zerg. I want him to see the nexus go down. Once it is down, I kill the ling with a waiting stalker. If there is an overlord over the third, I can bring a stalker and it is much easier. Once the scouting ling/OV is dead I cancel my nexus, warp in, and move out. I was thinking about posting a nice strategy guide but wanted to see if others were doing this. | ||
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