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On June 09 2012 21:44 RageBot wrote:
I've checked the "read this second thread" for BOs for beginners (one against each race), but they are all very old (newest are six months old).
Are there other highly recommanded BOs for beginners out there? Preferrably ones with a fast Nexus.
There are some with a fast nexus. 1 gate FE has a Fast Expand against T. FFE is a forge Fast Expand. And there is only one or two fast expands for Protoss but they require you have good game knowledge and micro. If you had actually read the safe PvX openings you'd realise vZ/T the guides have a fast nexus.
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Versus Terran go for a 1gate fast expand. There are many variations of it but find one you like and give it a try.
Vs Zerg FFE is what you want, but the followup might be difficult to figure out. Most tosses i guess tries to get a third up before 10 min to have the economy to hold a 12 min roachpush.
Vs Protoss i like the safe pvp 3gate i found while googling. Gate robo gate is also a nice alternative, and they should both hold a 4gate.
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On June 09 2012 22:46 golledaman wrote:
Versus Terran go for a 1gate fast expand. There are many variations of it but find one you like and give it a try.
Vs Zerg FFE is what you want, but the followup might be difficult to figure out. Most tosses i guess tries to get a third up before 10 min to have the economy to hold a 12 min roachpush.
Vs Protoss i like the safe pvp 3gate i found while googling. Gate robo gate is also a nice alternative, and they should both hold a 4gate.
Agree with him for the terran and zerg. But its all how you are comfortable with. For me , against protoss , i like to go 2Gate Robo and transition from the best build from there . This is to easily push off any 4Gate rush as you will have a min or two earlier immortal. well , this is how i feel comfortable. it all comes down to which playstyle u feel comfortable with. thats how i do it .
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I was wondering what the best response is to a 3 rax marine/scv all-in when you go for a 1 Gate FE (parting style where the gate comes first with a 17 nexus). I have played a few games where I kite with the Stalker but the train of scvs is soaks up too much damage. I'll put up the replay if someone says that it will help. Thank you. ^^
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On June 09 2012 14:14 Chandra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 13:58 aZealot wrote:On June 09 2012 11:33 ysnake wrote:On June 09 2012 00:57 YouMakingMeCrazyGirl wrote:3 steps to play protoss: 1. http://i.imgur.com/3YdYH.png2. back to step 1 3. watch step 1 again User was banned for this post and for being a previously banned user. Even though this is insulting, it is kind-of true. All of Protoss below Diamond are playing like this. I am tired of this shit. >_< This anti-Protoss tirade on TL is tiresome. But now within the Protoss Help Me Thread? (It's Iike walking into the Citadel and spitting at the Conclave.) I follow this thread pretty closely, and as a low level Protoss learn a lot from reading it. Strangely enough, I don't think "just 1A more" has ever been offered as advice. Categorizing a race as imbalanced or easy makes people feel better about themselves not being good in a matchup. In reality it doesn't do anything for them other than hampering their ability to improve. Their loss.
I thought this post might be seen in the wrong way and hence I got a warning. I a Diamond Protoss myself (often facing Masters who either completely kill me or I end up scoring a win because they played poorly, probably a bad day for them). Nevertheless, I actually wanted to point out to Protoss to try and do timing attacks as they are way too good not to be utilized. I ended up switching to Zerg as I was stuck with that "sit on 2-base Protoss" mentality, and struggling against Diamond players.
PvZ is my best MU, but in some weird way (post-drunk/high state) I tried to actually encourage lower-level Protoss to not be afraid to move out from their 2base. I apologize for any incovenience caused.
Anyhow, back to the topic, I enjoy reading these forums and don't want to see another WoW forums.
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On June 10 2012 00:59 ysnake wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 14:14 Chandra wrote:On June 09 2012 13:58 aZealot wrote:On June 09 2012 11:33 ysnake wrote:On June 09 2012 00:57 YouMakingMeCrazyGirl wrote:3 steps to play protoss: 1. http://i.imgur.com/3YdYH.png2. back to step 1 3. watch step 1 again User was banned for this post and for being a previously banned user. Even though this is insulting, it is kind-of true. All of Protoss below Diamond are playing like this. I am tired of this shit. >_< This anti-Protoss tirade on TL is tiresome. But now within the Protoss Help Me Thread? (It's Iike walking into the Citadel and spitting at the Conclave.) I follow this thread pretty closely, and as a low level Protoss learn a lot from reading it. Strangely enough, I don't think "just 1A more" has ever been offered as advice. Categorizing a race as imbalanced or easy makes people feel better about themselves not being good in a matchup. In reality it doesn't do anything for them other than hampering their ability to improve. Their loss. I thought this post might be seen in the wrong way and hence I got a warning. I a Diamond Protoss myself (often facing Masters who either completely kill me or I end up scoring a win because they played poorly, probably a bad day for them). Nevertheless, I actually wanted to point out to Protoss to try and do timing attacks as they are way too good not to be utilized. I ended up switching to Zerg as I was stuck with that "sit on 2-base Protoss" mentality, and struggling against Diamond players. PvZ is my best MU, but in some weird way (post-drunk/high state) I tried to actually encourage lower-level Protoss to not be afraid to move out from their 2base. I apologize for any incovenience caused. Anyhow, back to the topic, I enjoy reading these forums and don't want to see another WoW forums.
Yeah, you are right that there are essentially two ways of playing Protoss once you start to get a handle on the race. An aggressive style (largely based, IMO, on MC) involving timing attacks or a passive, macro oriented style (typified best, I guess, by Creator.Prime). Your post probably could have been worded a little better - but as a fellow Brotoss I forgive you.  :p
I was just a little frustrated with some of the anti-Protoss rubbish on TL seeping into this thread.
And fwiw, I do try to play Protoss in an aggressive way against both Terran and Zerg when that specific match-up allows. It's especially enjoyable against Terran as it's nice to be the one, for example, knocking on their door (or bunker) at ~6.00 with Zealots/Stalkers/Sentries if they have 1 rax FE. It may not be the most optimal way of playing the MU at the higher levels (say Diamond and higher) but it is a lot of fun. Oh, and it sure does stretch multi-tasking too as you tech/expo behind it.
Anyway, back to the thread.
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On June 10 2012 00:44 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 00:01 nixis wrote:
I was wondering what the best response is to a 3 rax marine/scv all-in when you go for a 1 Gate FE (parting style where the gate comes first with a 17 nexus). I have played a few games where I kite with the Stalker but the train of scvs is soaks up too much damage. I'll put up the replay if someone says that it will help. Thank you. ^^
The general idea is that you should block off the top of your ramp with 3 Pylons and use your Stalkers to pick off units whilst they try to break the wall down. If you build your second Pylon in the right position to complete a wall with 2 Gateways then you could instead use 2 Gateways to block the ramp, which would make it take even longer for them to break down. You can afford to do this by cancelling your Nexus. Kill as many units as you can whilst they're breaking the wall down and then kite them around once they get in. Engage with Probes if you have to, but if you've macro'd properly then kiting should probably be enough. Not the same opening, but this is also a fast Nexus opening so it might be useful to you: http://drop.sc/194597
Did you just upload a replay of yourself where you drop an offensive gg? not sure if serious
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On June 10 2012 06:32 Kaitokid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 00:44 Sated wrote:On June 10 2012 00:01 nixis wrote:
I was wondering what the best response is to a 3 rax marine/scv all-in when you go for a 1 Gate FE (parting style where the gate comes first with a 17 nexus). I have played a few games where I kite with the Stalker but the train of scvs is soaks up too much damage. I'll put up the replay if someone says that it will help. Thank you. ^^
The general idea is that you should block off the top of your ramp with 3 Pylons and use your Stalkers to pick off units whilst they try to break the wall down. If you build your second Pylon in the right position to complete a wall with 2 Gateways then you could instead use 2 Gateways to block the ramp, which would make it take even longer for them to break down. You can afford to do this by cancelling your Nexus. Kill as many units as you can whilst they're breaking the wall down and then kite them around once they get in. Engage with Probes if you have to, but if you've macro'd properly then kiting should probably be enough. Not the same opening, but this is also a fast Nexus opening so it might be useful to you: http://drop.sc/194597 Did you just upload a replay of yourself where you drop an offensive gg? not sure if serious
Yeah he does actually use an offensive gg..
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On June 11 2012 00:39 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 06:32 Kaitokid wrote:On June 10 2012 00:44 Sated wrote:On June 10 2012 00:01 nixis wrote:
I was wondering what the best response is to a 3 rax marine/scv all-in when you go for a 1 Gate FE (parting style where the gate comes first with a 17 nexus). I have played a few games where I kite with the Stalker but the train of scvs is soaks up too much damage. I'll put up the replay if someone says that it will help. Thank you. ^^
The general idea is that you should block off the top of your ramp with 3 Pylons and use your Stalkers to pick off units whilst they try to break the wall down. If you build your second Pylon in the right position to complete a wall with 2 Gateways then you could instead use 2 Gateways to block the ramp, which would make it take even longer for them to break down. You can afford to do this by cancelling your Nexus. Kill as many units as you can whilst they're breaking the wall down and then kite them around once they get in. Engage with Probes if you have to, but if you've macro'd properly then kiting should probably be enough. Not the same opening, but this is also a fast Nexus opening so it might be useful to you: http://drop.sc/194597 Did you just upload a replay of yourself where you drop an offensive gg? not sure if serious Yeah he does actually use an offensive gg..
Thank you for the response regardless of manners. A more direct question for you would be if you were to expand earlier and see he coming only after your expansion is set up. A want to say that a probe pull (via attacking by mineral walking past the scvs to the marines) would be the most efficient way but I am not sure. As far as I know this would require the highest amount of skill but it should considering it would win the game. Thank you again for answering.
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How do I break a muta contain?
Replay - http://drop.sc/195472
I opened up pretty standard but suspected some kind of all-in (Gas + no third). I realize that I didn't prepare enough (Maybe I should have added more cannons?) but I didn't insta-lose to the 35 banelings (My observer JUST missed the baneling nest -.-) wandering up my ramp.
However, after this I just couldn't get another expansion up. He massed up mutas and I tried blink stalkers but I just couldn't get a third up and running so eventually I ran out of money and lost.
Any comments on this rep? I messed up in the beginning with the 14 nexus (I was just focused on remembering to cut probes for nexus+cannon+gateway that I did it too early, lol)
Gold toss.
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What's the best method of holding a 4 gate using a 3 stalker rush in PvP while still being able to be somewhat greedy with twilight tech? I don't face many 4 gates on ladder, but when I do encounter them I'm not entirely sure what the best response is. I always take a second gas after I put down my second gate, and try to get my tech structure (usually a TC) off of two gates, which I usually follow with a dark shrine for a DT FE. I've heard some suggest to get a zealot and sentry as my next two units after stalkers 2 and 3, but with this I feel like I have to warp in at least one additional sentry to be safe if he's trying to push my ramp, and my force feels a bit weak before a couple rounds of warp-ins. I've also heard that you can get two additional stalkers, which I would honestly prefer to more sentries, but I'm not sure if that's totally safe to do. What do you think is best option?
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I'm looking for pro replays featuring the sentry/immortal all-in after FFE in PvZ. Thanks in advance for any links 
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On June 11 2012 22:56 NVRLand wrote:How do I break a muta contain? Replay - http://drop.sc/195472I opened up pretty standard but suspected some kind of all-in (Gas + no third). I realize that I didn't prepare enough (Maybe I should have added more cannons?) but I didn't insta-lose to the 35 banelings (My observer JUST missed the baneling nest -.-) wandering up my ramp. However, after this I just couldn't get another expansion up. He massed up mutas and I tried blink stalkers but I just couldn't get a third up and running so eventually I ran out of money and lost. Any comments on this rep? I messed up in the beginning with the 14 nexus (I was just focused on remembering to cut probes for nexus+cannon+gateway that I did it too early, lol) Gold toss.
I go indepth on your replay inside the spoiler due to length!
+ Show Spoiler +I watched the replay and the problem itself wasn't really wasn't the muta play, it was what happened before hand. The Ling/Bane all in that happened is what did you in, and the muta were just the nail in the coffin. But I'll go over the whole thing as i took small notes as i went along the first time through the replay!
Everything looked fine and normal up to around here:
7:24 Zealot scouts no 3rd taken by the zerg. This should raise a red flag in your mind.
- Zerg need a large amount of gas income in order to produce units in volume in order to deal w/ protoss early/midgame pressure 3rd bases are required for this to happen. The fact that he doesn't have his 3rd taken at this point is a big tell of something happening normally ling/roach, ling/bane, or 2base muta (other builds can come from 2base, but these are the common ones)
8:24 Zealot spots that he has zergling speed
- When your zealot moved out to scout to see if he had a 3rd he didn't have speed, and when you were in the other main your zealot kills a number of speedlings - such "late" ling speed normally means that he plans on making more lings to do something with them. roach/ling ling/infestor muta/ling
9:45 Obs sees tons of lings hatch.
- Shits hitting the fan - large production cycles from zerg at this point means hes going to attack
10:18 F&#K BANES!?!?!
- Your obs spots a huge amount of banes down by your nat (wayyyy too late) - Poor FF's let in everything and you proceed to lose your nat, and all of your probes. THIS CAN'T HAPPEN. you must hold this!! This is where you lost the game. Holding that off means you auto win
11:30 Lost Nat and hold and remake nexus
- You hold that 'all-in' and start to make the long road back to recovery into trying to win the game.
12:25 Spot the 3rd finally going down for the zerg
15:42 Move out with force made up of mostly stalkers/immortals/sentry vs a HUGE number of lings and muta (you get blind sided by these muta, you had no idea they were coming) You get caught out in the open and surrounded, no amount of FF's can save you from the fate of you losing this army. * If you want to push out like this hug the walls and cliffs in the map so you can surround your forces with FF's easily.
After this it's a wash you make stalkers but really no amount of stalkers can stop mass muta - you make DT tech when the only thing that can really stop this is HT's and storms.
TLDR: Ling/bane is what killed you and put you in a really bad spot (played from behind the rest of the game) You get stuck on 2 base and can't secure a 3rd and you went DT tech when you needed HT/Storm tech
How to Fix: Pay attention to expo times, upgrade times, and get HT tech vs muta!
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EPT
