|
Too often I see games changed or even immediately lost due to a blue flame hellion drop, or a speedling runby.
It blows my mind that even pros who practice 10 hours a day succumb to even the most basic (yet deadly) of harasses. I seriously see it almost every tvt, where somebody instantly loses 20 scvs because of a blue flame hellion drop or runby.
People should try harder to try to minimize damage done by speedling/bfh harass and runbys. Give yourself time to react before all your scvs are dead!!!
Walling as terran seems so basic and logical. I'm not sure why I almost never see it! After this guide I hope this is implemented in every game (unless there's a reason not to).
Every game I see valuable supply depots being wasted and serving no purpose. You should take advantage of such a special building (being able to lower it)!
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/sc2/1.jpg)
Look at these placements. They are useless with no thought into placing them. Imagine trying to do a push, and then 5 blueflame hellions or 20 zerglings run by and take out all your scvs! I see this happen WAY too often in pro games.
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/sc2/6.jpg)
Again, another example of wasted supply depots.
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/sc2/2.jpg)
Here is an example of effective use of supply depots. During the midgame, your opponent tries to do a sneaky hellion drop? Sorry! You cant get into the mineral line!
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/sc2/14.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/sc2/15.jpg)
Look! Even if your forces are out busy harassing/attacking, those hellions are going to take forever to kill those supply depots. Your scvs will be safe, and you will have time to response to it!
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/sc2/5.jpg)
You can even take it up a notch. In the picture above, the most likely hellion drop (straight into your mineral line) to your natural will be from the bottom. This is because your main is above you, so having them drop from top would give you ample time to respond, and would be awkward for them. Place a turret or two there to stop a straight up hellion drop into your mineral line. Experiment with it. There's probably more efficient ways to put your turrets.
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/sc2/13.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/sc2/12.jpg)
Dreaded ling runby? Not anymore! The lings won't instantly kill your scvs, giving you time to respond. All this with free buildings that you would have built anyways, just putting it to good use!
I know this seems simple, but I almost NEVER see it in pro games. Games should NOT be lost to do a simple blue flame hellion harass. You should not lose 20 scvs to a simple ling runby. I honestly consider that careless, especially at a high level.
I hope this guide is useful, and people start walling off! I'll be happy if i see terran start using this in the GSL 
edit: You can have scvs escape while hellions can't enter (credits: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196232)
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/1-1.jpg)
If supply depots are touching at the corner, scvs can go through, but hellions can't
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/2-1.jpg)
If supply depots are touching a cc with 1 block, then scvs can go through, and hellions can't.
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/4-1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/5-1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/kiirbie/379c6e43.jpg)
Here are examples of a better simcity vs hellions. Hellions cannot get to the mineral line, but scvs can escape from all these places.
|
Hmm what if he drops hellions right on the mineral line? Wouldn't you have to take the time to lower the sup depot to move your scvs out? which would probably funnel them in a line for the BF hellions.
|
I have seen SlayerS_Dragon use a lot of walling on his stream. As a matter of fact on shakuras he walls down the open space between bottom ramp and 3rd base next to the cliff.
|
Unnecessary numbers of pictures. One or two would get the point across, even an old point.
|
On July 27 2011 12:04 psp219 wrote:
Hmm what if he drops hellions right on the mineral line? Wouldn't you have to take the time to lower the sup depot to move your scvs out? which would probably funnel them in a line for the BF hellions.
you can have turrets placed in the right positions. lowering does not take much time. if you get dropped , then control-click and lower your supply depots and run like usual. or you can have your supply depots lowered, and then raise them up if you see hellions coming. it still depends a lot on scouting and awareness, but it's to minimize overall damage.
|
On July 27 2011 12:06 FreezerJumps wrote:
Unnecessary numbers of pictures. One or two would get the point across, even an old point.
Yes it seem like everyone would know this. It's like... duh why not? I just wanted to emphasize it and remind people because of how often I see people lose when they shouldn't.
|
Well done, and I totally agree. Although I've lost some games due to bad walling ;P
I think your inclusion of pictures really helps, mentioning supply depots as the special building. For things that are more likely to not need to be moved, ghost academies and ebays can be used. Well done.
|
On July 27 2011 12:06 FreezerJumps wrote:
Unnecessary numbers of pictures. One or two would get the point across, even an old point.
Unnecessary post. One or two constructive comments would get the point across, even a pointless point.
|
Nice read. I hate ling runbys, and I never thought of continuing to SimCity my base after my initial wall-off. I will put this knowledge to good use.
|
On July 27 2011 12:09 Blunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 12:06 FreezerJumps wrote:
Unnecessary numbers of pictures. One or two would get the point across, even an old point. Unnecessary post. One or two constructive comments would get the point across, even a pointless point.
Hilarious post. One or two pre-rendered sentences that got the point across, even made me laugh out loud.
+ Show Spoiler +
And in an effort to stay on topic, I really think creative walling will help a lot with pro-games. To quote a recent game: Byun vs Losira game 2. Losira's runby could've been stopped by repositioning barracks to stop that attack route, like how Terran walls off 1/2 his natural choke and hallway on xelnaga when taking his third and pushing.
|
On July 27 2011 12:04 psp219 wrote:
Hmm what if he drops hellions right on the mineral line? Wouldn't you have to take the time to lower the sup depot to move your scvs out? which would probably funnel them in a line for the BF hellions.
You can't run workers away from hellions anyways, You are mostly better off just leaving them mining because moving around will stack them. If your units aren't near responding, you've lost all the workers anyways.
|
I get the feeling that akalarry is the reincarnation of Billy Mays
|
but then you get a bad problem with drops stright into the mineral line with a second decoy overlord to tank the dammage then your SCV's have nowhere to run and just die.
|
On July 27 2011 12:43 mbr2321 wrote:
I get the feeling that akalarry is the reincarnation of Billy Mays
Tired of hard to reach lings running by?
Are you spending hours trying to clean up after someone drops blue flame hellion on your main?
WELL NO MORE!
From the makers of Planetary Fortresses comes a whole new product that will put these chores back outdoors! It's WALL OFF!
Simply make your buildings into a wall and voila~! Just look at those lings!
Order now and get two free mules! If you aren't completely satisfied we will return 75% of your money back!
|
Thanks for the pics. Makes it easier to copy <3
|
On July 27 2011 12:51 sermokala wrote:
but then you get a bad problem with drops stright into the mineral line with a second decoy overlord to tank the dammage then your SCV's have nowhere to run and just die.
not sure if serious. you can lower supply depots.
|
On July 27 2011 12:57 Ksquared wrote:
Thanks for the pics. Makes it easier to copy <3
don't use my examples word for word. i was just showing pictures of the overall and general idea. there could be better ways to wall yourself in. maybe you could use less supply depots, i'm not sure.
|
Actually, some pros use this technique -- Boxer versus Sen in the NASL did an awesome sim-city at his natural to head off ling counter attacks, and Thorzain versus Fruitdealer in the TSL also did something similar, but also used Factories and Ebays.
|
Yeah, I've seen Boxer do this with his building placement (everything looks so pretty!) and I've been trying to do it a bit. I think it's even more essential on wide-open naturals, like Xelnaga Caverns, or Metalopolis (RIP). The only problem I have with walling off the mineral line is that it means fewer supply depots to spot early drops (against T esp, sometime P)
|
Can anyone show me pictures of walling on Tal'Darim, I'm not sure how - I posted in the Simple question thread but I got a very generic answer. NVM if this isnt the thread for it.
|
Nice read. I'm sure everyone knows about this, but it is not emphasized enough just how important this tiny thing can be. Usually I just throw down a supply depot wherever I feel like is most convenient, as it saves me time. But the extra layer of security you get when you just spend an extra half second placing your depots carefully can make a big difference!
|
What if they just drop into your mineral line? Wouldn't it just force you to spend more of your APM in dropping the depots? I suppose a turret would work fine, but there are definitely ways to still get hellions in your mineral line.
I like it though! I do agree; lots of pros just mindlessly put depots in spots that render them useless which is really bad due to the fact that terran is so vulnerable to counterattacks.
|
I've learned from Boxer and more recently Strelok to do this. It's fairly common though among higher levels. Also: tal'darim is just 3 rax and 1 supply depot at the end.
|
On July 27 2011 13:57 LordLuo wrote:
What if they just drop into your mineral line? Wouldn't it just force you to spend more of your APM in dropping the depots? I suppose a turret would work fine, but there are definitely ways to still get hellions in your mineral line.
I like it though! I do agree; lots of pros just mindlessly put depots in spots that render them useless which is really bad due to the fact that terran is so vulnerable to counterattacks.
they can definitely hellion drop straight into your mineral line. however, if you wall like this, then you get rid of options, which is what you want to do. now they can't just hellion drop at the very corner of your base and run in with mass hellions.
if they want to do economic damage, they HAVE to go straight into your mineral line. that is the only option you know that they can do, so you can take extra measures to stop that. in addition, making them bring their medivac all the way to your cc gives you that much more time to prepare for a drop. you can try ways to stop it such as placing turrets in key locations.
reducing the number of options your opponent has is a big key in strategy. it is like gas stealing with zerg. it limits their options, making them more uncomfortable. the more you do it, the more comfortable you are and it gives you that much of an advantage.
|
ah yeah... i see your point, but I also see the reason why depot-placement in the mid-/late-game is kinda hard to pull off: it's simply because there is so much going on. I mean, you have twopromed attacks and re-makro your army, scan the opponents army-movement and all this shit going on, and suddenly that nice female voice keeps saying "additional supplydepots required ... additional supplydepots required". And you just think "ah hell! shut up bitch i have to fight a war over here! here's your fucking depot!" bam! you take 2 or 3 scvs and send them to build just anywhere.
|
I lost my season 3 placement match because of bad building placement vs Hellions. The concept of simcity-ing your base is an old one, but a good one. I'll definitely be doing this more often.
|
On July 27 2011 12:04 psp219 wrote:
Hmm what if he drops hellions right on the mineral line? Wouldn't you have to take the time to lower the sup depot to move your scvs out? which would probably funnel them in a line for the BF hellions.
If you build depots 1 matrix touching a command center (or touching corners with any building that's not a refinery), SCVs can get through but Hellions cannot.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196232
|
Although I've already been doing this it's so effective and simple to do that every terran should do.
|
I always properly against Zerg... But never against Terrans. :S
Gotta fix that.
|
wanted to remind ppl to wall in tvt!!!
as you saw in mlg anaheim, people are still getting owned by hellion runbys. mma vs boxer and mvp vs mma easily come to mind (as they were the biggest matches). most of those hellion attacks could have been stopped by walling up your bases
|
On July 27 2011 11:56 akalarry wrote:Too often I see games changed or even immediately lost due to a blue flame hellion drop, or a speedling runby. It blows my mind that even pros who practice 10 hours a day succumb to even the most basic (yet deadly) of harasses. I seriously see it almost every tvt, where somebody instantly loses 20 scvs because of a blue flame hellion drop or runby. People should try harder to try to minimize damage done by speedling/bfh harass and runbys. Give yourself time to react before all your scvs are dead!!! Walling as terran seems so basic and logical. I'm not sure why I almost never see it! After this guide I hope this is implemented in every game (unless there's a reason not to). Every game I see valuable supply depots being wasted and serving no purpose. You should take advantage of such a special building (being able to lower it)! Look at these placements. They are useless with no thought into placing them. Imagine trying to do a push, and then 5 blueflame hellions or 20 zerglings run by and take out all your scvs! I see this happen WAY too often in pro games. Again, another example of wasted supply depots. Here is an example of effective use of supply depots. During the midgame, your opponent tries to do a sneaky hellion drop? Sorry! You cant get into the mineral line! Look! Even if your forces are out busy harassing/attacking, those hellions are going to take forever to kill those supply depots. Your scvs will be safe, and you will have time to response to it! You can even take it up a notch. In the picture above, the most likely hellion drop (straight into your mineral line) to your natural will be from the bottom. This is because your main is above you, so having them drop from top would give you ample time to respond, and would be awkward for them. Place a turret or two there to stop a straight up hellion drop into your mineral line. Experiment with it. There's probably more efficient ways to put your turrets. Dreaded ling runby? Not anymore! The lings won't instantly kill your scvs, giving you time to respond. All this with free buildings that you would have built anyways, just putting it to good use! I know this seems simple, but I almost NEVER see it in pro games. Games should NOT be lost to do a simple blue flame hellion harass. You should not lose 20 scvs to a simple ling runby. I honestly consider that careless, especially at a high level. I hope this guide is useful, and people start walling off! I'll be happy if i see terran start using this in the GSL
what do you do when 4 helions drop into that little contain and your scvs cant escape fast enough. LOL
hahah
theres a reason the gsl players dont follow bronze theorycrafts
|
On August 01 2011 19:38 th2pun1sh3r wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 11:56 akalarry wrote:Too often I see games changed or even immediately lost due to a blue flame hellion drop, or a speedling runby. It blows my mind that even pros who practice 10 hours a day succumb to even the most basic (yet deadly) of harasses. I seriously see it almost every tvt, where somebody instantly loses 20 scvs because of a blue flame hellion drop or runby. People should try harder to try to minimize damage done by speedling/bfh harass and runbys. Give yourself time to react before all your scvs are dead!!! Walling as terran seems so basic and logical. I'm not sure why I almost never see it! After this guide I hope this is implemented in every game (unless there's a reason not to). Every game I see valuable supply depots being wasted and serving no purpose. You should take advantage of such a special building (being able to lower it)! Look at these placements. They are useless with no thought into placing them. Imagine trying to do a push, and then 5 blueflame hellions or 20 zerglings run by and take out all your scvs! I see this happen WAY too often in pro games. Again, another example of wasted supply depots. Here is an example of effective use of supply depots. During the midgame, your opponent tries to do a sneaky hellion drop? Sorry! You cant get into the mineral line! Look! Even if your forces are out busy harassing/attacking, those hellions are going to take forever to kill those supply depots. Your scvs will be safe, and you will have time to response to it! You can even take it up a notch. In the picture above, the most likely hellion drop (straight into your mineral line) to your natural will be from the bottom. This is because your main is above you, so having them drop from top would give you ample time to respond, and would be awkward for them. Place a turret or two there to stop a straight up hellion drop into your mineral line. Experiment with it. There's probably more efficient ways to put your turrets. Dreaded ling runby? Not anymore! The lings won't instantly kill your scvs, giving you time to respond. All this with free buildings that you would have built anyways, just putting it to good use! I know this seems simple, but I almost NEVER see it in pro games. Games should NOT be lost to do a simple blue flame hellion harass. You should not lose 20 scvs to a simple ling runby. I honestly consider that careless, especially at a high level. I hope this guide is useful, and people start walling off! I'll be happy if i see terran start using this in the GSL what do you do when 4 helions drop into that little contain and your scvs cant escape fast enough. LOL hahah theres a reason the gsl players dont follow bronze theorycrafts
k bro, you should have enough awareness to lower your depot and run away. also if you can't do that then you should know that scvs can pass through spots that hellions can't if you wall it correctly, so if he drops straight into your mineral line, you can run away while he's stuck.
not sure if trolling or you're the bronze guy
|
what do you do when 4 helions drop into that little contain and your scvs cant escape fast enough. LOL
I might be wrong, but I think the movement speed of SCVs is the same over open ground as over a lowered depot (pun intended).
Also - I've noticed on quite a few occations that people lift the CC/OC which provides a huge open space for the emergency response squad to move in while the SCVs can escape without being forced to single-file between CC and geysers.
|
i uploaded some more pictures showing how scvs can escape without needing to lower a supply depot. seems like there is no excuse not to do it now after so many counterattacks by bfh at mlg anaheim
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
