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[L/G]Using Pyschoanalysis in your games. - Page 7

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Mediafriend
Profile Joined August 2010
United States8 Posts
July 03 2011 04:07 GMT
#121
I always say glhf, regardless of whether I cheese, play standard or try something crazy. the game is no fun when you're mean.
Super Liberal
guapogato
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1 Post
Last Edited: 2011-07-03 04:31:49
July 03 2011 04:18 GMT
#122
(Hello, I am joe. This is my first post, and I only post because I am currently in training to be a psychoanalyst, and because i am diamond in everything).

I am so glad that another member of this exceptional community has observed the pronounced affect that the psyche can have upon play at any given moment. Of course, we all know this: MC, dictated by his charismatic bravado, destroying because of his attitutude; Idra, refusing to be dismissed, because he thinks he is the best; Happy, dominating in silence better than anyone.

Yet this discussion is always already flawed by its lack of discussion about what the self actually is when it plays the game: isn't this really the question?

As of thus far, this dicussion has focused on what a player says before the game; and this is less that worthy of discussion, imho. The idea is phenomonal though--how can i think better to play better???

I think that the answer lie in the typical lacanian response (french psychoanalytic philosopher, pay no mind if you don't know him, he was a baller), which is to say, that it is less that I play the game, then that the game plays me, at least when I am doing well.

There is a theory in contemporary american psychoanalytic theory called flow, and i think that the SC player, when playing well, perfectly emulates the ideal: focused; concentrated; loss of time consciousness; focused on a singular goal.

THe best question, then, is how can I enter this state???

Psychoanalysis is about desire; but I have already misspoken: psychoanalysis is about why we desire what we desire, and how. Why does psy consistently play 15 hatch when he knows of the high probability of a 2 rax all in? Why does Idra demand perfection, refuse to win without it; why does he believe the win to be worth more than it actually is? Whats up with Julyzerg, so quiet and underspoken, and simultaneously so aggressive, demanding that the Other react to his play?

I say Other, rather than other, because this other, the one we play upon the latter, is not a simple person we would know from our normal existence; no, we know that he will behave in such and such a way because of the meta-game: litteraly, the 'I' that is reflected in the system.

Thus, I believe that the best way to capture the energy engulfed within the desire to dominate is paradoxically distancing oneself from that desire: engaging desire merely makes you repeat the meta; this is is easily counterable; the best, the best, the best, do not play like everyone else, but like themselves.

There are a variety of tenable strategies in a game with the complexity of SCII; thus, the best question must be: where am I, how do I play, and why is the way I play better?

What the Other says at the begining of the game is a guessing game, but I do admire your bravado. Psychoanalysis is useful in this setting, but not to the extent that you can statistically verify a persons tendancies based upon their begining of the game comments. E.g. (no pun), I frequently open games saying: "Isn't Shakira fine? I'd love to waka her waka."

This is a good tactic if it works, because no one would have a ready answer, and hence would be distracted from the required singular desire of the SCII player, the desire to fucking kill.
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."
Mr.SoloDolo
Profile Joined June 2011
American Samoa90 Posts
July 03 2011 05:11 GMT
#123
@guapogato

Jesus christ I would hate to be your professor. Thousands of commas, verbose and in-eloquent writing style. At least provide a tl;dr if you write a wall of text. Sorry if I'm being rude but that was a terrible read.

On topic:
OP should spend less time "psychoanalyzing" his bronze opponents and learn the damn mechanics of the game instead.
Incontrol+Idra+Tyler Fighting
kkindy
Profile Joined November 2010
United Arab Emirates8 Posts
July 03 2011 08:15 GMT
#124
Dear drryworrx,

Let me say that although I disagree with your analysis I do think it's cool that you put in time and effort into thinking about this. Don't let the haters get to you. It's ok to be wrong! but you're thinking and that's a start. As for those that say you should focus on your mechanics well, let them be. Play your game. Enjoy it! that's what Starcraft is about. Not everybody wants to be in masters or grandmasters. My brother likes it just fine in bronze, I'm in high plat at the moment and I cast a lot of games with Imba.tv.

I mean seriously, the majority of players type gl hf and forget that that's exactly why they spend time playing the game :D

Antarah
Zeetee
Profile Joined December 2010
United States153 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-03 08:43:58
July 03 2011 08:37 GMT
#125
it took me until here

---------Keep your ears clean. Hearing "Your probes are under attack!" the moment it happens versus a second or two later because you've got earwax up the wazu can play a bigger part than you might think.


to realize he was trolling. before then, i thought he was just genuinely stupid. man, i suck
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-03 09:26:50
July 03 2011 09:24 GMT
#126
Why is it that if someone has a complete breakthrough in strategy they always have under 50 posts.

---------Keep your ears clean kids. It could save your probes.


I'll add something that's always helped me. I've never been a huge fan of day9. I think he rambles a lot and it's hard for me to dedicate an hour I could be on the ladder to watch him live. But when I skip through his VODs and pick the useful information out of the personality and humor I've learned a few things and one of them is very pertinent to this thread.

If you intend on winning and not making friends:

At the start of every game type gl hf then open message log and block communication.

Then focus on the game.


That hygiene section was just absolutely hilarious. I assure you, you're in silver because of reasons that don't relate to breaking nails or cloggy ears. While I personally appreciate the effort, it would be much better directed towards practicing.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
jungeMann
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany10 Posts
July 03 2011 12:01 GMT
#127
Sofar I have noticed one simple rule.
If your opponent is a zerg and is giving you a huge chat right at the start.
"where u from?"
"what leage u from?"
"are you good in zvz?" and so on.
He will 9 out of 10 times be cheesing you, hoping to distract you.
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
July 03 2011 12:08 GMT
#128
Most "silent" types I face on ladder are 70% cheesing me, sometimes I just blind counter these cheeses just by seeing if they respond or not
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
MageWarden
Profile Joined April 2011
United States95 Posts
July 03 2011 13:59 GMT
#129
On July 01 2011 03:17 JWD wrote:
I really can't believe you guys are taking this so seriously. Doesn't anyone else appreciate the whimsy here? Sheeeeeeesh.

Yes, like there is some risk that players who read this thread will stop scouting come ON guys.

OP, I enjoyed reading. More entertaining than 90% of purported guides posted in SC2 Strategy.


no i dont appreciate the whimsy. nor do i appreciate u trolling me with pictures of dessert. nor does this guide have a more of sample size than 1. according to the forum guidelines: "Guides are held up against the highest standards of quality in this forum. They are the most valuable resource for the average player". So what happened here?
GG WP NO RE
Zrah
Profile Joined July 2010
Lithuania55 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-03 14:10:20
July 03 2011 14:10 GMT
#130
I am high master but i am always silent no GL HF from me, i will only talk if you pause or i have to pause.
drryworrx
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States76 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-03 21:12:55
July 03 2011 21:12 GMT
#131
Like I've said many times, it's not supposed to be something you live and die your games by, just in the lower tiers such as what I am in, just something to keep in the back of your mind that is a possibility of what MIGHT happen. even if it is such a slim chance of 125%+.

Where bad manners is still highly prevalent.
*Huk talking to idra* "Idra...how does he do it? What drives him?" *Idra looks at huk* "Some men can't be bought, bargained or reasoned with, huk. Some men just want to watch the world learn." *They both turn to look at day[9]*
Nightshake
Profile Joined November 2010
France412 Posts
July 03 2011 21:54 GMT
#132
Very interesting.

Moar !
sas911
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada113 Posts
July 03 2011 22:39 GMT
#133
This is a troll OP thread if it isn't incredibly obvious.
Oh yes the statistics by percentage are very accurate, minimum of 125% players are categorized!

"---------Keep your ears clean. Hearing "Your probes are under attack!" the moment it happens versus a second or two later because you've got earwax up the wazu can play a bigger part than you might think."
If you have ear wax that builds up so much that you can't hear anymore, then you have a medical issue.

"All information that I will write down here has been collected largely by myself, with help from my brother, during the course of our plays of the game from the first days of the beta up until present day"
Wait wait let me get this straight. You claim to have gotten the beta key at an extremely early date meaning you are eager to get started early on. And you've been apparantely playing from then all the way till now. So I guess you're obviously in maste- Silver? Really? Does that sound like total bullshit, or did you play 1 game after a week?

Anyway, considering the very high unlikelihood of the content, at LEAST show where you got your numbers. Considering the OP has not bothered to reply to ANYTHING, it means it's just a troll who doesn't care.

Close thread?
DruidzHistory
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden231 Posts
July 03 2011 22:57 GMT
#134
This is a cool guide and i think master players can learn something from this
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
July 03 2011 22:58 GMT
#135
Can't believe some here took the OP's word for granted.

Made up percentages are wrong 89% of the time.
Komsa
Profile Joined November 2010
United States99 Posts
July 03 2011 23:21 GMT
#136
Here we have a low level player, the OP, over complicating things.

Rather than relying on highly subjective interpretation of meaningless data, a player looking to improve should learn to read game facts.

You can avoid a lot of this weird stuff by learning to scout and increasing your execution speed.

The OP really shines a light on what goes on in the mind of players stuck in lower levels. He's basically come up with this system of psychoanalysis to dodge becoming a better scouter.

It's all guess work by the OP even if he has some statistics/replays to back it up, the conclusions are still fuzzy compared to just scouting the opponent to pin him on a build.
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. -Woodrow Wilson
drryworrx
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States76 Posts
July 03 2011 23:28 GMT
#137
On July 04 2011 07:39 sas911 wrote:
This is a troll OP thread if it isn't incredibly obvious.
Oh yes the statistics by percentage are very accurate, minimum of 125% players are categorized!

"---------Keep your ears clean. Hearing "Your probes are under attack!" the moment it happens versus a second or two later because you've got earwax up the wazu can play a bigger part than you might think."
If you have ear wax that builds up so much that you can't hear anymore, then you have a medical issue.

"All information that I will write down here has been collected largely by myself, with help from my brother, during the course of our plays of the game from the first days of the beta up until present day"
Wait wait let me get this straight. You claim to have gotten the beta key at an extremely early date meaning you are eager to get started early on. And you've been apparantely playing from then all the way till now. So I guess you're obviously in maste- Silver? Really? Does that sound like total bullshit, or did you play 1 game after a week?

Anyway, considering the very high unlikelihood of the content, at LEAST show where you got your numbers. Considering the OP has not bothered to reply to ANYTHING, it means it's just a troll who doesn't care.

Close thread?



I have been replying to people. Did you even look at my name or did you just read the post?


And to you other dude who I don't know your name of, the last post guy:

I am not dodging getting better at scouting, and I'm not encouraging people to skip scouting and do just this. I have said several times in here that you should NOT stop scouting. Maybe I should say it in all caps so you can read it?

THIS IS IN NO WAY INTENDED TO TAKE PLACE OF SCOUTING, IT IS JUST SOMETHING PRE-SCOUTING TO THINK ABOUT, NOT TO LIVE BY. JUST TO GET YOU TO THINK OF THE POSSIBILITY BASED ON WHAT I FIND.

there, hope all of you who apparently can't read can see that one at least. Don't say I'm not saying anything when I am and you're just being ignorant, mkay?

Tooda-loo.
*Huk talking to idra* "Idra...how does he do it? What drives him?" *Idra looks at huk* "Some men can't be bought, bargained or reasoned with, huk. Some men just want to watch the world learn." *They both turn to look at day[9]*
TolEranceNA
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada434 Posts
July 03 2011 23:35 GMT
#138
As much as i respect everyone(mostly) posting on Team Liquid. It would be better off for anyone (range from Bronze to Professional) to just practice rather than spend your time reading the OP and the comments. That is, if you want to get better, not to laugh/rage/compliment/ignore at OP.
Arotsis:"Nestea, what do you think about Zerg?" Nestea:"...Sad."
bond1
Profile Joined January 2011
38 Posts
July 04 2011 08:40 GMT
#139
On July 03 2011 13:18 guapogato wrote:
(Hello, I am joe. This is my first post, and I only post because I am currently in training to be a psychoanalyst, and because i am diamond in everything).

I am so glad that another member of this exceptional community has observed the pronounced affect that the psyche can have upon play at any given moment. Of course, we all know this: MC, dictated by his charismatic bravado, destroying because of his attitutude; Idra, refusing to be dismissed, because he thinks he is the best; Happy, dominating in silence better than anyone.

Yet this discussion is always already flawed by its lack of discussion about what the self actually is when it plays the game: isn't this really the question?

As of thus far, this dicussion has focused on what a player says before the game; and this is less that worthy of discussion, imho. The idea is phenomonal though--how can i think better to play better???

I think that the answer lie in the typical lacanian response (french psychoanalytic philosopher, pay no mind if you don't know him, he was a baller), which is to say, that it is less that I play the game, then that the game plays me, at least when I am doing well.

There is a theory in contemporary american psychoanalytic theory called flow, and i think that the SC player, when playing well, perfectly emulates the ideal: focused; concentrated; loss of time consciousness; focused on a singular goal.

THe best question, then, is how can I enter this state???

Psychoanalysis is about desire; but I have already misspoken: psychoanalysis is about why we desire what we desire, and how. Why does psy consistently play 15 hatch when he knows of the high probability of a 2 rax all in? Why does Idra demand perfection, refuse to win without it; why does he believe the win to be worth more than it actually is? Whats up with Julyzerg, so quiet and underspoken, and simultaneously so aggressive, demanding that the Other react to his play?

I say Other, rather than other, because this other, the one we play upon the latter, is not a simple person we would know from our normal existence; no, we know that he will behave in such and such a way because of the meta-game: litteraly, the 'I' that is reflected in the system.

Thus, I believe that the best way to capture the energy engulfed within the desire to dominate is paradoxically distancing oneself from that desire: engaging desire merely makes you repeat the meta; this is is easily counterable; the best, the best, the best, do not play like everyone else, but like themselves.

There are a variety of tenable strategies in a game with the complexity of SCII; thus, the best question must be: where am I, how do I play, and why is the way I play better?

What the Other says at the begining of the game is a guessing game, but I do admire your bravado. Psychoanalysis is useful in this setting, but not to the extent that you can statistically verify a persons tendancies based upon their begining of the game comments. E.g. (no pun), I frequently open games saying: "Isn't Shakira fine? I'd love to waka her waka."

This is a good tactic if it works, because no one would have a ready answer, and hence would be distracted from the required singular desire of the SCII player, the desire to fucking kill.


Hahahahahahahaha...Lacan + SC2 = greatest post ever. You my friend have had a great win.
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
July 04 2011 08:49 GMT
#140
I made a topic about the influence of the greeting on the playstyle a while ago and the general consensus was:
If they say nothing at all, they don't care about your feelings so they will cheese you.
If they say just gl, they do a strategy which you can only defend with luck, meaning they will cheese you.
If they say more than gl hf, they try to distract you and then they will cheese you.
If they say just gl hf, they try to lull you into a false sense of security and then they will cheese you.
If they say any swearwords, they are angry about a previous loss and they will cheese you.
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