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Eleaven
772 Posts
I think it might be fun to use in a situation where your opponent doesn't actually want to attack you.. or drop you, or harass bases etc, but in that situation you could do literally anything and win.. unless those things line up.. im just not sure where 800-1000 minerals is going to come from any time before the 20 min mark, compared to taking your 4th and walling it off.. Ofc, its cool to have a tl strat thread with no replays :D | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/blitzk/plexa_vs_ray_1.sc2replay He posted one up in the OP... There is more coming I think. | ||
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StatX
Canada343 Posts
Thats not a bad idea. I have been trying to drop but besides dts, the rest gets taken out rather quickly. Also, terrans will tend to build turrets if they can so the fragile warp prism will not get through. I guess ill experiment it more and see what happens. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On June 07 2011 11:05 StatX wrote: If I understand what youre saying is to bring 1-2 warp prism with your main army and using their mobility more often? Thats not a bad idea. I have been trying to drop but besides dts, the rest gets taken out rather quickly. Also, terrans will tend to build turrets if they can so the fragile warp prism will not get through. I guess ill experiment it more and see what happens. Upgraded chargelots in small groups are godly vs other non-p units in small groups. | ||
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Vathus
Canada404 Posts
On June 07 2011 11:03 Eleaven wrote: Dunno why anyone has spare minerals in PvZ.. with stalkers costing so much, and on top of that having to wall in every expo that isn't your nat with 3-4 gates + cannons to wall off, and cannons in the mineral lines to fuck up baneling drops.. in fact there's just so many things to spend minerals on to stay safe from zerg multi-prong aggression that i'm never above like 400 minerals unless maxxed.. I think it might be fun to use in a situation where your opponent doesn't actually want to attack you.. or drop you, or harass bases etc, but in that situation you could do literally anything and win.. unless those things line up.. im just not sure where 800-1000 minerals is going to come from any time before the 20 min mark, compared to taking your 4th and walling it off.. Ofc, its cool to have a tl strat thread with no replays :D The spare minerals come because your army is so gas heavy especially If you aim for a stalker, immortal, sentry, templar composition. I've been using warp prisms quite a bit in every match up by going for blink + obs and then after building the obs sneaking a warp prism in. I think they're most effective in pvz because of the damage you can to in a zerg main. You can easily snipe evo chambers and other important tech buildings allowing you to get really far ahead in upgrades or denying zergs from making the units they want which is especially important when zerg wants to remax after a fight. Its really hard for zerg to defend their main if you have your army moving around the map threatening the zergs bases as zerg will want to bring as many units as possible to deal with a strong toss army. | ||
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
On June 07 2011 11:03 Eleaven wrote: Dunno why anyone has spare minerals in PvZ.. with stalkers costing so much, and on top of that having to wall in every expo that isn't your nat with 3-4 gates + cannons to wall off, and cannons in the mineral lines to fuck up baneling drops.. in fact there's just so many things to spend minerals on to stay safe from zerg multi-prong aggression that i'm never above like 400 minerals unless maxxed.. I think it might be fun to use in a situation where your opponent doesn't actually want to attack you.. or drop you, or harass bases etc, but in that situation you could do literally anything and win.. unless those things line up.. im just not sure where 800-1000 minerals is going to come from any time before the 20 min mark, compared to taking your 4th and walling it off.. Ofc, its cool to have a tl strat thread with no replays :D Since it's a midgame timing, you'll typically be working off of 2 bases - that's not much to wall off. But anyways, why are you considering wall-offs as something to do with excess minerals? They should be planned and part of a good sim city. And you will be over 400 minerals if you are waiting for a full round of warp-ins. This strategy really isn't as much of an inconvenience as you make it sound. My question to Plexa: are you skipping obs to get the warp prism out? Or are you chronoboosting an obs, then a warp prism while your robotics bay is building? | ||
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tienvh
Singapore20 Posts
Just a small question, is the speed upgrading for Warprism important for this play style? How about creating more than one Warprism to make this more powerful? Thanks for the OP. | ||
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edc
United States666 Posts
On June 07 2011 12:41 tienvh wrote: Oh I love this topic, Just a small question, is the speed upgrading for Warprism important for this play style? How about creating more than one Warprism to make this more powerful? Thanks for the OP. I was wondering about these questions too. I bookmarked this. This is the kind of stuff I really want to do in my games. Thank you so much Plexa for contributing greatly to us Protoss players! | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On June 07 2011 12:41 tienvh wrote: Oh I love this topic, Just a small question, is the speed upgrading for Warprism important for this play style? How about creating more than one Warprism to make this more powerful? Thanks for the OP. The speed upgrade for the warp prism is VERY helpful imo because it lets you QUICKLY get from the main to drop a lot of units and then go back to your army or to any other expansion to warp in. Creating more than one warp prism requires a lot of micro. I'm in masters with decent multitasking and I can barely do well with one warp prism while controlling my army at the same time. Just my 2 cents. | ||
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ScythedBlade
308 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:48 iChau wrote: I just played a game where I stalled for 2 minutes just alternately spamming zealots into two mineral lines. He just gave up for some reason and tried to attack me. Zealots are REALLY disposable in PvZ AND PvT. The reason is that they're so cost-efficient with upgrades like Plexa said many times. Apparently, the guy was really scared of the warp prism. Also, I saw a post in the thread that says, "Having extra warpgates is good". I find this true. Ahh, I guess you are buying time for the awesome units then ... =/. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
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AlTheLiar
United States1 Post
In an NASL game against TT1 he used zealot drop harass every time the big colossus ball headed out of the base. It kept the army at home and allowed him to take an economic lead. When TT1 finally went for an attack White Ra dropped AND warped in a round of zealots in his natural for massive damage. I agree that Warp Prisms should be used much more. I wish I had the multi-tasking to do it well myself  | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On June 07 2011 11:10 iChau wrote: Upgraded chargelots in small groups are godly vs other non-p units in small groups. Yeah they are, but they can be run around and delayed, other than killing workers I've never actually done any damage with Zealot warp-ins, building sim-cities and being slow really lowers the amount of damage you can do  Against Protoss you can start taking out Pylons and expensive production facilities/Tech, but Z/T it is not quite the same. Against Zerg I just suicide them on certain expensive buildings or hatcheries. But what else is there to kill? Terran I find I do very little damage if at all :X | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
On June 07 2011 13:20 dreamsmasher wrote: i've actually been wondering if using a warp prism + chargelot mass warpin flanking manuever against a hydra army would work. hydras die pretty fast to chargelot if there aren't any roaches to serve as meatshields. if you split roaches from hydras using stalker/sentry/immortal ball and flank with a decent number of chargelots, you could probably clean up zerg without significant need for AOE. Probably near impossible since the hydras can back up and kill the prism in 0.2s, and he will have vision of it since behind his hydras = on the creep. | ||
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KotaOnCue
United States180 Posts
I've also thought of doing the multiprong blink stalker attack while you warp in units into their main or something like that. That way, you can take minimal losses while doing a good amount of damage yourself. I know it sounds APM intensive but it isn't as bad as you'd think once you warp in those zealots, your almost free to micro your stalker ball through his expansion to snipe it. I find this works against zerg because their hatchery is a lot easier to take down than Terrans PF or OC but also something to consider. | ||
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mothergoose729
United States666 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On June 07 2011 14:06 Dommk wrote: Yeah they are, but they can be run around and delayed, other than killing workers I've never actually done any damage with Zealot warp-ins, building sim-cities and being slow really lowers the amount of damage you can do Against Protoss you can start taking out Pylons and expensive production facilities/Tech, but Z/T it is not quite the same. Against Zerg I just suicide them on certain expensive buildings or hatcheries. But what else is there to kill? Terran I find I do very little damage if at all :X Kill the add-ons. You'll be surprised how effective it will delay Terran's army, given Terran always need to keep up the marauder counts in vP, Kill the ebay, or even armory to stop Terran from upgrade lvl2,3 weapon, armor. Kill the orbital. Remember, a rax that can only produce marines in TvP is a dead rax. | ||
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Carapace
Netherlands128 Posts
On June 07 2011 15:31 canikizu wrote: Kill the add-ons. You'll be surprised how effective it will delay Terran's army, given Terran always need to keep up the marauder counts in vP, Kill the ebay, or even armory to stop Terran from upgrade lvl2,3 weapon, armor. Kill the orbital. Remember, a rax that can only produce marines in TvP is a dead rax. Or you can cut his reinforcements from reaching his main army. Since the numbers coming out of the buildings will be low you should be able to take them on. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On June 07 2011 15:31 canikizu wrote: Kill the add-ons. You'll be surprised how effective it will delay Terran's army, given Terran always need to keep up the marauder counts in vP, Kill the ebay, or even armory to stop Terran from upgrade lvl2,3 weapon, armor. Kill the orbital. Remember, a rax that can only produce marines in TvP is a dead rax. If it was that easy then it would be awesome, but Terran has repair and often can save a building at the very last moment. Addons are nice but I find killing them much more effective with DT's. Warping in the Terrans main to me is something that works only when you are ahead, I don't think it is that effective vs Bio, but if Terrans use mech then it might be useful | ||
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EnOmy
Australia183 Posts
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