EPTOkay. Can I has powerful units that do well in balls too?
[D] Protoss 'Shock and awe' - Page 10
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Okay. Can I has powerful units that do well in balls too? | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On June 08 2011 22:54 Probe1 wrote: Did someone just sincerely say Zerg is too proud to spend 750 minerals at every single base? Seriously? I know a lot of Protoss that love to just mineral dump cannons into their thirds but... you want me.. to spend... somewhere between 3000 and 4500 minerals on static defense... Okay. Can I has powerful units that do well in balls too? I can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing or balancewhining :/ Please explain yourself. You don't see zergs going as overboard on static defense simply because they're units are much faster. Hell, speed roaches have 3.9 speed on creep which is ridiculously fast, and lings have what, 6+? Thus, static defense is not as important given the relatively slow movement of the protoss army coupled by the fact that protoss lacks a reliable, fast harass unit (besides dt in a prism, I suppose) | ||
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TheGiz
Canada708 Posts
On June 08 2011 22:54 Probe1 wrote: Okay. Can I has powerful units that do well in balls too? Hey Broodlords Ultralisks ARE the ball too. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Managed to get it right once in this game. Big hydra/roach vs colossus/stalker engagement while i simultaneously warp in zealots and snipe off hydra tech and roach tech. Pretty strange game anyway  I use this in the battle at about 30:00. Lots of people are getting this confused with general warp prism harass - this is different, it's a calculated strike to completely incapacitate your enemy (well, overstatement but you get the idea ). Here is what happens - in pictures: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/blitzk/sna1.jpg) Here is a battle. While the Zerg is completely committed to this fight I'm warping in Zealots into his base: ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/blitzk/sna2.jpg) I send the Zealots to kill off his tech - in particular his hydra den and roach warren: ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/blitzk/sna3.jpg) Hydra den dead, roach warren will die shortly after. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/blitzk/sna4.jpg) Battle over, but he's not going to be building any more hydralisks or roaches. Plus his reinforcements need to tend to my zealots, else lose the rest of his tech. This allows me to push forward and sentry abuse his split forces and gain a massive adv. | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On June 09 2011 02:34 Plexa wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/sc2_reps/plexa_vs_energizer.sc2replay Managed to get it right once in this game. Big hydra/roach vs colossus/stalker engagement while i simultaneously warp in zealots and snipe off hydra tech and roach tech. Pretty strange game anyway I use this in the battle at about 30:00. Lots of people are getting this confused with general warp prism harass - this is different, it's a calculated strike to completely incapacitate your enemy (well, overstatement but you get the idea ). Here is what happens - in pictures: + Show Spoiler + Here is a battle. While the Zerg is completely committed to this fight I'm warping in Zealots into his base: I send the Zealots to kill off his tech - in particular his hydra den and roach warren: Hydra den dead, roach warren will die shortly after. Battle over, but he's not going to be building any more hydralisks or roaches. Plus his reinforcements need to tend to my zealots, else lose the rest of his tech. This allows me to push forward and sentry abuse his split forces and gain a massive adv. Very cool, Plexa. Thanks for the replay. I think this is a great example I can model my PvZ after (except for the base trade craziness, but I guess it couldn't be helped). | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
2 Immortals are not really going to help a lot in the main battle if you are stalker heavy and they do a ridiculous amount of damage to Buildings. Of course it would require a little more multitasking(unloading the Immortals and then warping in the Zealots) but I see it as being better.And with a Terran going Marauder Heavy those Immortals will do a lot of damage to his reinforcements. Ofc you wouldn't want to lose those Immortal. BTW today I saw Grubby doing something similar in his stream and it worker pretty well.(only with Zealots btw) | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 09 2011 04:59 CecilSunkure wrote: Ouch you did that all off of 2 base? Now just imagine if instead of Colossus you had DT tech. Imagine you have sentry immortal stalker, a couple DT in your army and a couple Archon. Then, you warp in zealots into one base and DT into another. It would be really hard to not die if a protoss pulls that off. Um. Not exactly We kinda killed each others bases haha originally it was 3 vs 9, but it turned into 12 vs 6 | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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Cepteel
47 Posts
In those games I would press a forward attack- usually at about 55 supply or so providing that they were still on one base and they were bunkered down-it worked best on Taldarim Altar I noted due to the nature of the base (although I could see this working equally as well if not better if they are on their natural). I would plant down a proxy pylon at the front and have a primarily stalker/sentry composition and then just press at the front and pick off what I could while minimizing losses-taking out a tech lab is devastating early on in the game. The reason for stalker sentry combo is that I can have longer range and can snipe structures while also planting down forcefields and guardian shields to cover that army while ensuring no pursuit from terrans (and if they pursue actually come to think of it, the consequences for them could be even worse). While this was going on I could drop Zealots into the mineral line or back of the base. Take into account as well in the early game that economy is more critical-even if I lose those zealots-let's say I warp 3 in-if I lose them and they lose nothing (let's say they micro and respond to it perfectly), I have lost 300 minerals but how much did they lose in mining at the beginning of the game-if they lost 300 in income than it is a fair trade is it not? I am macroing and building probes and possibly expanding if I want behind this push. I am gaining an economic advantage. Also take into account the fact that in order to defend a push at the rear from zealots, they must pull units from their bunkers or the front to defend giving your stalker sentry force a potential advantage in that fight and an ability to pick off more. I have had games where I did that and Terrans just up and left the game. They lose economy if they don't go back and defend but they lose their front and a barracks and supply depot or tech lab or something if they don't engage the front. What kind of choice is that for a Terran player lol? Perhaps an early game application for those you out there who have struggled with P v T matchups? Does this sound viable in Masters league? I am Diamond level and it works most of the times I have tried it (I should try it more truth be told). | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
i like this strat. using the strength of toss units and the mobility makes it a force to be reckoned with, Even a terran like me would fear such a strategy even with the power of Planetary Fortress | ||
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KotaOnCue
United States180 Posts
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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saer
40 Posts
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Mediafriend
United States8 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 09 2011 07:10 Mediafriend wrote: thank-you plexa! this is the best post I've seen in recent memory. the only one I feel will have a lasting effect on the game, you have made this protoss completely rethink his prism usage. so bravo on advancing the state of the game for toss! I feel like most posts are about how to beat the deathball as t or z, with all the creativity coming out of zerg. this has helped us immensely only time will tell if its as effective as it sounds like it will be, but I'm super excited to try! I think you are vastly over estimating how useful this post is I've said it before, and I'll say it again... its really difficult to get right or even utilise (one of the reasons there are so few reps) but it's something to keep in mind going into the midgame/lategame. Protoss, however, should be thinking about ways to get psi matrix everywhere for warpins as it should be used more often. I'm thinking about building pylons in as many different "hidden" locations as possible and using that to reinforce (rather than rely on a prism). I'll let you know how that pans out | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On June 09 2011 07:13 Plexa wrote: I think you are vastly over estimating how useful this post is I've said it before, and I'll say it again... its really difficult to get right or even utilise (one of the reasons there are so few reps) but it's something to keep in mind going into the midgame/lategame. Protoss, however, should be thinking about ways to get psi matrix everywhere for warpins as it should be used more often. I'm thinking about building pylons in as many different "hidden" locations as possible and using that to reinforce (rather than rely on a prism). I'll let you know how that pans out Yeah, its basically a post about playing a harassy style as Protoss like Terran when Terran goes nuts with drop to build its 1-push-win-army or Zerg when Zerg goes mass muta against Terran or when Zerg goes roach drop vs Protoss. Its nice but I feel that it'll fall to map designers to make high level WP harass more useful than the current standard of giant unit ball or going straight air in most situations. Some of the blizzard maps are really good for it due to the massive amount of edge space and unopenness of the maps. Its a lot like the ridges/lack of ridges contributing to the scariness of muta harass in BW. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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