|
Hi,
I would like to introduce you to a practice "tip" for stutter step micro (for unstimmed marines specifically, but it works for other units as well) which is inspired by my many years of playing music.
First, here's an interesting thread by qxc : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=149218
His map is a good start if you want to practice, but just playing it is a bit too "trial and error" oriented. What I mean by this is that there is no easy way to consistently improve, other than playing a lot to keep up with the reference.
I basically added to this a metronome (you can find one at http://www.metronomeonline.com/ ) and set it to the right tempo, which is :
60 / {Attack cooldown} * {Game speed factor}
= 60 / 0.8608 * 1.4 = 97.5836
Set the metronome to 96 and try to keep up, and you can now immediately hear if you stutter step too slow or too fast (in that case you'll also skip volleys so that's all the more obvious).
EDIT: The difference between 96 and 97 shouldn't matter much, as there is a random delay included in the attacks (see below in this thread for the exact post).
Remember, this Andante by MarineKing is not an easy piece of music. If you skip a lot at first, you may want to try a lower tempo like 92. It's not optimal, but way easier to follow without skipping.
EDIT: Below are some theoretical tempos for other units that benefit from good micro. I say "theoretical" because someone pointed out that there was an inherent random delay in the attacks, so take that into account and maybe set the metronome down a notch.
Tempos for other units
+ Show Spoiler +The numbers are rounded, in bold are those I consider most important. Marine (stimmed): 146 Marauder: 56Marauder (stimmed): 84 Reaper (ground): 76 Reaper (buildings): 47 Hellion: 34 Thor: haha j/k, ever tried to stutter step with a thor? A sight to behold... Viking (ground): 84 Viking (air): 42Banshee: 67Stalker: 58Immortal: 58 Colossus: 51 Roach: 42Hydralisk: 101 Mutalisk: 55Corruptor: 44 This is a lot of numbers, but you can see that a protoss ball can be stutter stepped together quite nicely 
Hopefully this will be helpful for someone, and hasn't been discussed yet.
ZenithM
N.B.: For stimmed marines, the tempo is 146, which roughly means that you must perform the clicks and key strokes at a pace of the order of your connection latency. It becomes a bit too tricky and unreliable to try to stutter step perfectly, depending on your lag.
|
I really like the metronome to practice micro. Its kind of like marching to a metronome so if some people are audio learners it will help them.
|
Metronome works fine for me. This is a REALLY awesome idea on how to get the timings down! THANK YOU! I will be practicing this  This is so cool!
|
as a marching drummer this helps alot, not to ,ention one of the exercises im learning is right at this tempo :D. very interesting to know that starcraft has a tempo to it
|
It should probably be noted that the metronome should be used for when you hit [stop] for your marines. If you want to carry this further, you could double the speed and that would account for both the move command and stop command.
|
I thought marines fired instantly. Meaning that you press stop then press move as fast as you can, (wait the weapon cooldown) and then stop again.
Unlike with roaches where you stop, wait for shoot animation cooldown, move (wait the weapon cooldown), stop...
|
Haha, nice and thanks
@zergrushkekeke
They do, but after you stop firing you still have to wait for cooldown.
Edit:
Idea: Terrans should listen to music all set to 144 bps. LOL.
Seriously though.
|
Oh wow I've never thought of this before. This is a really cool idea.
|
i just started playing terran in master league and cant kill a probe before it gets past my marine so this will hopefully solve that problem thx you very much
|
On May 06 2011 14:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Idea: Terrans should listen to music all set to 144 bps. LOL.
144 beats per second? Sounds... Painful. :|
|
On May 06 2011 14:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
@zergrushkekeke
They do, but after you stop firing you still have to wait for cooldown.
I think we are saying the same thing, you wait for the cooldown while moving.
Some units have a delay between being stopped and firing (roaches, stalkers).
Some units have no delay ( Marines, voids, sentries).
The no delay units only need 1 beat per step, the delayed firing units need 2, first beat press stop, second beat press move.(and the times would vary on what unit they are, and the stop time and move time don't have to be equal).
|
On May 06 2011 14:48 zergrushkekeke wrote:
I thought marines fired instantly. Meaning that you press stop then press move as fast as you can, (wait the weapon cooldown) and then stop again.
Unlike with roaches where you stop, wait for shoot animation cooldown, move (wait the weapon cooldown), stop...
In fact, even if the marine attack animation is one of the fastest in the game, you can still cancel it by "move command"ing fast enough when the marine is about to shoot. Even more subtle, is the fact that the rotation speed of the marine matters. The timing window during which you can cancel the attack is much larger when the marine shoots on something behind it than when it's in front of it. But this is just nitpicking. The point is, you must wait a bit when the marine starts its shooting animation, and then move.
That's why I find it very difficult to just follow the beat of the metronome to coordinate your commands. With factors like attack animation speed and lag (which can vary between the games), it's a bit too unreliable to do that and you end up skipping a lot, but I mean, it could be possible. I prefer to see the metronome as the audio reference which you must end up synchronizing with the sound of the marine volleys, no matter how you do it.
|
On May 06 2011 15:01 SlapMySalami wrote:
i just started playing terran in master league and cant kill a probe before it gets past my marine so this will hopefully solve that problem thx you very much
This is actually a very good benchmark, never thought of that, your post has enlightened me :p
|
A couple of minor things to be aware of:
1. I think the fastest game speed multiplier is close to 1.4 than 1.38 (see this post on sc2math; comments too)
2. Almost all attacks have a random delay between 0.125 and -0.0625 (see this thread on tl; or just open up the map editor). If you wanted to guarantee a fire, you would stutter @ 0.8608 + 0.125 = 0.9858. There may be an incentive to trade off some probability of firing so you move faster, but I can't actually think of one.
|
This is awesome because it works for other units too, like banshees, hellions, roaches, and stalkers; just insert the proper attack cooldown into the equation.. Very good idea.
|
Excellent idea, now all we need is a list of music and the BPM it is played at so we can play the proper music for the proper build. Techno for stimmed marines, Waltzing for tanks, Reggae banshees, it should all work out.
Love the originality, really do.
|
I don't understand how this works. Am I suppose to open this with SC2 or something?
|
On May 07 2011 00:45 Kavas wrote:
I don't understand how this works. Am I suppose to open this with SC2 or something?
Let's say you intend to execute a strat that is very marine heavy or you just want to practice on a custom map. Just run a metronome at the same time, and when you stutter step with your marines, the sound of the firing should coincide with the beat of the metronome, so that you know you have indeed the maximum damage output. If the beat sounds faster, just stop and shoot faster too, and if you start skipping volleys, slow down a bit, until you have naturally the right pace.
Ultimately, you won't need the metronome anymore, because you will be used to the stutter step groove
I suppose this method won't work as well for everybody. It depends on how important the sound is to you. Maybe you'll prefer visual clues.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 06 2011 23:25 pwei wrote:A couple of minor things to be aware of: 1. I think the fastest game speed multiplier is close to 1.4 than 1.38 (see this post on sc2math; comments too) 2. Almost all attacks have a random delay between 0.125 and -0.0625 (see this thread on tl; or just open up the map editor). If you wanted to guarantee a fire, you would stutter @ 0.8608 + 0.125 = 0.9858. There may be an incentive to trade off some probability of firing so you move faster, but I can't actually think of one.
Thank you for these important elements, it's very interesting. So I suppose that's why I was skipping a bit when I tried to follow the theoretical tempo. Maybe you could rather set the metronome a bit slower.
|
Way to go, bro. Interesting application, I will test my micro using this for the rest of the week!
|
this would need a 2nd beat to tell me when to start moving again to be optimal
focusing on the metronome im just hitting s and i have to guess when to start moving again
edit: ok when using a+click rather than the stop command it you can basically click right away.. didnt know that
|
Wow this is so brilliant!!!! thank you so much.
for those of us too lazy to liquipedia the other numbers, any chance you could include other ranged stutter step t1/2 units in the OP?
stalker
roach
hydra
marauder
thanks
|
Didn't anyone tell you this is the internet and you're just supposed to troll instead of sharing good ideas with others? Seriously though, pretty damn good idea.
|
I updated the OP to take into account what pwei said, and I added tempos for other ranged units.
EDIT: Just checked on a test map, my stalker micro, which I believed was good, is in fact quite slow. How embarrassing that my marine stutter step is now better than my stalker stutter step (and I'm a protoss player since the release). Gotta turn on that metronome :D
|
On May 07 2011 23:12 ZenithM wrote:
I updated the OP to take into account what pwei said, and I added tempos for other ranged units.
EDIT: Just checked on a test map, my stalker micro, which I believed was good, is in fact quite slow. How embarrassing that my marine stutter step is now better than my stalker stutter step (and I'm a protoss player since the release). Gotta turn on that metronome :D
Perhaps we can rename this thread (not marines, but just ranged units, and it should go in recommended threads sticky.
It seems simple, but this is such an ideal way to refine an important micro skill.
|
great thread, thanks very much for this. now that you've added tempos for additional units, i wonder does anyone know if qxc still edits the map from time to time? as for as long as iv known the marauder as well as one or two others have been bugged. would be great to practise these also.
|
Time to find songs that are just 96 bps... nomnomnom
|
it's BPM man, not bps, never thought about anything like this is just perfected my marine micro only through play.
|
can i also clarify i am approaching this right? i use the right click, a, left click (repeat approach). using the metronome i should be timing my left click (the attack command) each time so that it coordinates with the beat of the metronome? so basically its cyclical and the time between my 3 actions is all the same (between righ click and a, between a and left click etc). however i find that towards the end of the route the ht is starting to outrun me yet when i watch qxc's original video he ht never seems to get out of range..
any thoughts?
|
You sir are the shit. People don't realize how rhythm intensive this game is and using a metronome is brilliant. Don't know why I haven't thought of this earlier. =]
|
This really hits home to me since I marched in highschool and did some Drum Corps.
I will be practicing!
|
This is terrific! Thanks for sharing MODs this shit is worth a spotlight! :D
|
awesome. now I wonder what the BPM is for hydras. I get far less time practicing their on-creep stutter step. youve inspired me. know the hydra though its probably max300.
|
On May 09 2011 21:04 rmAmnesiac wrote:
can i also clarify i am approaching this right? i use the right click, a, left click (repeat approach). using the metronome i should be timing my left click (the attack command) each time so that it coordinates with the beat of the metronome? so basically its cyclical and the time between my 3 actions is all the same (between righ click and a, between a and left click etc). however i find that towards the end of the route the ht is starting to outrun me yet when i watch qxc's original video he ht never seems to get out of range..
any thoughts?
can answer help me out?
|
anyone? 
|
Absolutely lovely idea!
Now I have a one sentence answer to the annoying question: What does a nerd look like?
"They use metronomes to practice unit management in their games".
|
Wow that's a great idea. I will definately try it out!
|
I've been trying to improve my marine stutter step and I'm still having problems with the mechanics and I wanted to get everyone's opinion on how it is correctly executed (I know the basic "idea" of how to do it, but I'm afraid that I've been executing it wrong)
If I'm attacking forward, I right click past the enemy, press "s" to stop the marines and let them fire, then right click past again, and press "s" again.
Is this the most optimal way, or do the pros, right click pass the enemy, then right click on the enemy units? or press a, then click? Just making sure I have the mechanics down right.
I know qxc wrote something in his custom map explaining the idea, but still unsure on the exact execution. This is what he wrote: Essentially you issue an attack command on the ground or on the target and the moment the unit deals damage you issue a move command. When the attack is off cooldown you issue another attack command and another move command as soon as damage is dealt. Rinse and repeat. Getting the timing down is the hard part.
|
Canada4481 Posts
In qxc's video (link leading to his map) he right clicks to move away, or towards the unit, and then a-clicks to attack.
Pressing "s" works as well, and I think some people use that instead of a-click. I've gotten more use to just using a-click instead of pressing "s".
|
I created an Android app for this if anyone wants a convenient stutter step metronome on their phone. I included mostly all of the units that the OP listed.
Check it out and tell me what you guys think
Stutter Step Trainer App
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
