EPTawesome stuff, really thx for this
[G] PvT Overview - Page 2
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insolentrus
Russian Federation304 Posts
awesome stuff, really thx for this | ||
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DuckS
United States845 Posts
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Dont Panic
United States194 Posts
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Torres69x
United States14 Posts
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
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Helllokitty
United Kingdom7 Posts
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lilky
United States131 Posts
On a side note: your english is better than most american speakers, so you should be proud! Just out of curiosity, what league are you? | ||
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
The flowchart is really good, but the text is very small. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On April 11 2011 00:44 Arcanefrost wrote: 2D) Marine/Hellion push: + Show Spoiler + This isn’t a very common strategy, an yet insanely good one. Basically they do a 1-1-1, get 8marines into a medivac superfast, drop them in your mineral line and run in with 3hellions at the same time. You can expo against this. It’s important to spot the drop coming it with your observer, if he unloads them all it will be hard not to lose probes. The reason the marines are so dangerous is that you have to block of your ramp with 2 stalkers on hold position to block out the hellions, so you don’t have that much stuff left if you did a robo build. On scrap station you should make a semi-wall upon seeing this, because the ramp is very open otherwise. If you successfully keep the hellions out and manage to catch the marines you will have a pretty big economy and tech advantage, but the game isn’t necessarily won yet so be careful. I guess doing a double forge is the best thing you can do, because of his 1-1-1 opener any marine/marauder push will be slightly later. Replays: TLO vs Axslav This shows the importance of the points I mentioned above. If you get caught off guard it will be as one-sided as can be. Observing what went wrong for Axslav will teach you a lot about how to stop it. EVERYONE needs to read this part very carefully and take it into account when playing vs 1/1/1. This build is extremely rare but it's strong enough that if you don't know it exists, you will get caught off guard and lose. | ||
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panda_inc
Australia170 Posts
great post. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On April 11 2011 10:02 iamke55 wrote: EVERYONE needs to read this part very carefully and take it into account when playing vs 1/1/1. This build is extremely rare but it's strong enough that if you don't know it exists, you will get caught off guard and lose. Regarding seeing drops coming and such with observers: I believe that it is much more reliable to position observers at the front of your opponent's base and the front of your base rather than trying to scout drops with them. If you happen to see them loading the medivac with the obs at the front of their base, all the better. But in general, it is very luck-dependent trying to scout drops directly with observers. With obs placement as described, you can position your army throughout your bases in a way that defends against drops/banshees/whatever incredibly well, and still be able to have your units in position at the front of your base when they attack there. Also, specifically against hellion/marine, phoenix openings completely obliterate that strategy, as they do to basically every 1-1-1 variation. | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1189 Posts
Love these MU overview threads. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On April 11 2011 11:00 PJA wrote: Regarding seeing drops coming and such with observers: I believe that it is much more reliable to position observers at the front of your opponent's base and the front of your base rather than trying to scout drops with them. If you happen to see them loading the medivac with the obs at the front of their base, all the better. But in general, it is very luck-dependent trying to scout drops directly with observers. With obs placement as described, you can position your army throughout your bases in a way that defends against drops/banshees/whatever incredibly well, and still be able to have your units in position at the front of your base when they attack there. Also, specifically against hellion/marine, phoenix openings completely obliterate that strategy, as they do to basically every 1-1-1 variation. Yeah I noticed this luck thing as well. It's quite annoying to have observers patrol your bases, then for some reason, the medivac sneaks by, drops 8 stimmed rines into your mineral line, and screw it up. Like you said, it's so much better to actually see the red dot start heading out. | ||
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ktgster
Canada70 Posts
Very useful to know how to deal with every type of terran all in without having to experience them. | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
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thedonkpunch
3 Posts
Maybe you meant Thor all in? | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
are you the belgian arcanefrost? Yes. Just out of curiosity, what league are you? Master. I beat 4k players on a regular basis, although I get stomped pretty often too  Regarding seeing drops coming and such with observers: I believe that it is much more reliable to position observers at the front of your opponent's base and the front of your base rather than trying to scout drops with them. If you happen to see them loading the medivac with the obs at the front of their base, all the better. But in general, it is very luck-dependent trying to scout drops directly with observers. With obs placement as described, you can position your army throughout your bases in a way that defends against drops/banshees/whatever incredibly well, and still be able to have your units in position at the front of your base when they attack there. Also, specifically against hellion/marine, phoenix openings completely obliterate that strategy, as they do to basically every 1-1-1 variation. I agree. The observer is usually in their base around the time the medivac leaves, so I can just follow it pretty often. Even if you don't see the medivac with your obs, you should recognize the build and pay extra attention to the minimap/unit positioning as a response. Phoenix openers destroy this indeed, but I only open phoenix on scrap station (and half of the times I end up defending shenanigans) so I felt a little too inexperienced with the follow-ups to include it in the guide. Solid post, but I didn't see any mention of 1gate FE, which is a ridiculously strong PvT build. I only 1gate fe when I scout a 1rax fe. I feel like it's an unnecessary risk unless you know for sure it's gonna be standard play. Question op. How do protoss players deal with marine banshee Thor Viking one base timing push? I use it fairly often and have only been countered at the high diamond level by hts using feedback and charglots... Once. I haven't encountered that build yet, I supposse immortal/phoenix/zealot would be pretty good vs it. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
Maybe that's just a different "school of thought", but I've always found that a phoenix-response (!) - opposed to phoenix-openers - aren't that effective vs one base all-ins. This due to the fact that the marines are the core damage-dealers, and even though I'm able to snipe the banshees/raven/whatever, he just snipes everyhting with marines covered by SCVs. I don't want this to seem like a simple "blah you are doing it wrong"-post, but I'd like to ask you how on earth you are able to kill ~20-25 marines+scvs 10 minutes into the game WITHOUT colossi when you teched to phoenixes to deal with the support? EDIT: oh yeah, nearly forgot. What I most missed about your awsome overview is that you didn't go into the problem of maps. On the larger maps there is imo no reason not to one gate FE even against possible timing pushs. You can hold one base play on shakuras and tal'darim very comfortably with enough forcefields and a reasonably fast colossus. I've been able to get one colossus out BEFORE the 10 minute mark even after a one gate FE. This due to the fact that I don't feel like having to throw down 3 additional gates to be safe against stuff like 3 rax....I always get my robotics early, even when one gate FE-ing on these maps. The other option would be a straight stargate opening. Opening with stargate into expansion is very vulnerable to early MM pressure, but again this isn't that much of a problem on the larger maps. I've never been that big of a fan of stargate openings, but on shakuras or tal'darim it's in my opinion superior to robotics openings or 3 gate pressure attempts. I feel your overview is best suited for the "classic" sc2-maps like xel naga or shattered temple. | ||
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xrayEU
Sweden571 Posts
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