PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST BEFORE POSTING. I've updated the post with information about speedlings, where to get the map, and how to set up hotkeys. Apparently people are still posting about these.
Tired of seeing your marines explode into green goo? Do you watch Marine King execute perfect splits and lament that you'll never be able to pull off such a high APM task?
Stop frantically box clicking small groups of marines and use this simple trick to pull off splits you never thought were possible!
As as a group of banelings rolls towards your marines, patrol click them away at a slight angle. From there you can shear off smaller groups with patrol click in a Y or T formation. The effect is that the marines nearest the banelings will turn and fire, while the rest continue to run. This gives you maximum spread since each banelings hits very few of your units, allowing you to increase your cost efficiency dramatically. As a bonus, moving in patrol formation maintains a magic box, whereas move command tends to clump your units.
Banelings are coming! Patrol away at a slight angle after stimming.
Box select some of the marines and patrol click them in the first branch of the Y.
Do the same with another set.
The result is an extremely cost efficient split and trade!
This trick was discovered while using Griffith's Marine Split Challenge map. I strongly recommend Terran players use it to work on their splitting micro.
Replay in Griffith's map: [url blocked]
Enjoy!
Additional Information:
- Thread for Griffith's map: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=206136 You can do a search on Bnet for "Marine Split Challenge" by Griffith too. Currently the map should be on the NA and EU servers, and should be released to others in the future. More details should be in that thread.
- I remapped patrol to Q. You can also use attack move but patrol gives a nice after-effect of spreading as well.
Go to Menu -> Hotkeys -> click a unit -> click the patrol icon -> set it to whatever you want -> click accept
- Manually splitting I was having trouble getting past level 13 on the map. Using patrol splitting I managed to get to level 21 in about an hour. I can consistently get to level 18 in under 10 minutes now, after less than 2 hours of practice.
- Keep in mind this technique is situational. You still need to be able to manually split for some game scenarios, especially two pronged attacks and surrounds (well... you're already screwed in that case ). You also have to start moving before enemy units get in range. However, it's great to have this technique in your arsenal.
- A lot of people are saying speedlings nullify this technique. In fact, this technique still yields great results against a speedling/baneling mix compared with manual splitting. You will still get a decent spread, and the benefits of spreading vs banelings far outweigh the costs of spreading vs lings. It's just that against such a mix, it's MUCH harder to trade cost effectively no matter what you do. To test this, type "sling" in Griffith's map without quotes before level 6. On sling mode I got to level 10.
- The best way to deal with ling/baneling is to have your units spread ahead of time, or incorporate other units into the mix such as tanks. Attack upgrades are also extremely beneficial.
On March 29 2011 08:44 Dilheisha wrote: Can't wait to try but i got a question...
When the marine reach the end of the patrol point... don't they come back toward the banelings ? Or do i have to execute another command ?
you must enter another command. that's how patrols work. my question without testing this out is how would this work if they've got lings to flank the marines? wouldn't that seriously screw this up?
edit: assuming i am correct in my assumption that patrolling units automatically attack anything that gets within range.
When the marine reach the end of the patrol point... don't they come back toward the banelings ? Or do i have to execute another command ?
they would but the idea is that you would add another command before that point. just think of it this way to do the initial split you would likely have to click 2 to 3 times per second then while waiting for them to walk to then end of the patrol. this means that you have demonstrated a high apm and i have no doubt that the next two clicks with a lot of leeway will be easy for you.
i think doing it the old fasioned way of slicing or grabing 2 or 3 at a time is more accurate and has applications against infesters and ht's, also you have more control of where your marines end up ie in a concave not just randomly scattred. its only hard until you've practiced it then its easy
On March 29 2011 10:19 bigbeau wrote: you cant micro banelings vs marines. if you split your banelings, they are still cost inefficient
If you select all your banelings and click on individual marines, a lot of travel time is wasted (not to mention more banes will die to marine attacks). Splitting is surely better but probably not by much.
OMG OP thank you so much for this find!!!!!! I love playing terran but ive been deterred lately from it because of how effective banelings are against the "standard" marine-tank composition
this, however, has given me the spark to start playing as terran again (ive had to main as protoss for months now). ive tried it out in custom games and it works beautifully! zerg players even ask me how i split my marines like a pro
to all of those saying that speedlings will destroy separated marines: yes, but if he wasted all those banelings, you've already been EXTREMELY cost effective, and marines with medivacs die very slowly to lings :D banelings are the true danger, and this hard counters them
On March 29 2011 10:40 lilky wrote: to all of those saying that speedlings will destroy separated marines: yes, but if he wasted all those banelings, you've already been EXTREMELY cost effective, and marines with medivacs die very slowly to lings :D banelings are the true danger, and this hard counters them
It's not the speedlings killing the marines... it's the fact that patrol means the marines will attack the nearest unit in range.
As in, the zerg runs a bunch of speedlings in, you try to do the patrol trick, but all your marines just stand there in a ball shooting at lings, and then get wiped out by banes. This doesn't happen using the normal method.
This just seems really high risk / reward. If it goes perfectly, your split will be much more effective than slicing manually. If it doesn't, you might lose everything.
Obviously this is only optimal for certain situations. Surrounds nullify this technique, for instance. Still I encourage everyone to try the map with and without this trick. It's always good to have something like this in your repertoire imo.
This is brilliant. Gonna test out tomorrow. Is there a way to slow down the speed on that marine split map? Also how long did it take you before you got somewhat good at splitting?
Wow man, this is pretty epic. Watching that video made me think of MKP himself. Definately will try this. Id laugh if he posted on here "Silly NA's ive been doing this all along.
I shift hold-position as I'm selecting the next group.
Either they don't mess with each other, or I'm just not fast enough to make them do that lol. It's pretty fast though. I like this patrol trick though, I'll try it.
On March 29 2011 14:09 XDJuicebox wrote: I shift hold-position as I'm selecting the next group.
Either they don't mess with each other, or I'm just not fast enough to make them do that lol. It's pretty fast though. I like this patrol trick though, I'll try it.
this is cool now i just need a zerg that fights me with 2:1 marine vs baneling ratio with 0 speedlings instead of the 120 they always have so it actually works
this method looks easy/effective, but honestly its flaws (due to the patrol mechanic and timing) out weigh the benefits. i preferable like the regular box method for marine splitting, altho a lil more apm intensive, its better if you have fast hands
On March 29 2011 14:09 XDJuicebox wrote: I shift hold-position as I'm selecting the next group.
Either they don't mess with each other, or I'm just not fast enough to make them do that lol. It's pretty fast though. I like this patrol trick though, I'll try it.
P is just sooooo far on my keyboard... -___-
Rehotkey ftw, I think im going to put it on Z.
Z is liftoff for me lol. Don't wanna get those 2 mixed up now.
I think this method is pretty damn sexy if you can get into the right situation (aren't getting surrounded by units like others said) and pull it off. I've tried normal splitting and also doing attack move original group back then split (which kind of does the same thing as your patrol trick but doesn't split them up quite as much).
This method can be risky but I think this would work out alright in most situations if you're using a tank + marine composition.
Btw nice find, I never knew you could do it this way~!
Also to do this in a game situation it's pretty much essential to rebind your patrol key!
- Oh yeah and the map is great for practicing so thanks
I dont understand how you do this trick. YOu patrol click your marines back. But when the banelings comes, the marines start attacking them and dont run away.
On March 29 2011 15:21 Hider wrote: I dont understand how you do this trick. YOu patrol click your marines back. But when the banelings comes, the marines start attacking them and dont run away.
you need to have a fast reaction time as so that doesn't happen.
stim + patrol click back as soon as you seen the banelings and then start splitting
On March 29 2011 10:40 lilky wrote: to all of those saying that speedlings will destroy separated marines: yes, but if he wasted all those banelings, you've already been EXTREMELY cost effective, and marines with medivacs die very slowly to lings :D banelings are the true danger, and this hard counters them
It's not the speedlings killing the marines... it's the fact that patrol means the marines will attack the nearest unit in range.
As in, the zerg runs a bunch of speedlings in, you try to do the patrol trick, but all your marines just stand there in a ball shooting at lings, and then get wiped out by banes. This doesn't happen using the normal method.
This just seems really high risk / reward. If it goes perfectly, your split will be much more effective than slicing manually. If it doesn't, you might lose everything.
This is the reason why it does not work in a real game most of the time. You want your marines to fire at the speedlings but run from the banes. To use the patrol split you need to issue the patrol command before any opposing unit is in range, but most of the time speedlings will already be upon your guys, so they stand clumped and get blown up. Also one small flanking ling group will cause all marines to stand in a group and fire.
On March 29 2011 10:19 bigbeau wrote: you cant micro banelings vs marines. if you split your banelings, they are still cost inefficient
Actually what happens is when marines are split, the lings become more efficient. So it's still a good situation for zerg, as long as you keep lings mixed in
I wonder how useful this is in a normal game, since normally speedlings come in first (faster and all), which would mean that the marines won't split too much.
Also, it's nullified when surrounded, and probably also when flanked by side-banelings.
Not to mention you can't do it in Zerg's base, or the marines will stand arond shooting OLs/buildings.
-> Neat trick, but box-splitting the marines seems to be something you need to know how to do anyways, since patrol is so situational. So it won't save you the learning process, just a bit of attention ingame (which actually is really good, don't get me wrong)
On March 29 2011 15:21 Hider wrote: I dont understand how you do this trick. YOu patrol click your marines back. But when the banelings comes, the marines start attacking them and dont run away.
you need to have a fast reaction time as so that doesn't happen.
stim + patrol click back as soon as you seen the banelings and then start splitting
Also, I can't get passed level 12
Has anyone else got stuck on level 12 of the map?
Why use patrol then?. Why not just move back and split? Dont see the benefits.
On March 29 2011 15:21 Hider wrote: I dont understand how you do this trick. YOu patrol click your marines back. But when the banelings comes, the marines start attacking them and dont run away.
you need to have a fast reaction time as so that doesn't happen.
stim + patrol click back as soon as you seen the banelings and then start splitting
Also, I can't get passed level 12
Has anyone else got stuck on level 12 of the map?
Why use patrol then?. Why not just move back and split? Dont see the benefits.
Tried it again and got up to level 15 before having difficulty.
I've also tried it doing a normal split, and I can guarantee unless you have boxer marine micro you will NOT be able to get anywhere near level 15 on this map.
The key is using patrol AND splitting small marine groups all over the map.
tbh there seems to be a little bit of lag/delay when you try a normal split on this map though. Either way I think this method is a lot more effective in the right situation.
If you don't see the benefits search "Marine split challenge" in the custom games and try the map, you'll find it gets pretty much impossible to use a normal split once you start getting around level 10+.
To any zergs out there looking to counter this. run 4-8 zerglings along side the marines, they will all stop and shoot giving banelings enough time to catch up and kill the clump of marines.
to any terrans out there looking to counter the counter. use your mouse.
I got to level 13 only but I can see the strengths of the splitting technique. How do you guys get beyond level 13? So far i'm trying to make more smaller Y Patrol branches after the first pull back.
Hi, Im thurines. Im a platinum level player and new to this forum.
In combination with this trick, or in marine vs baneling in general, what would be the best order to apply upgrades? I guess that stim comes first and then combat shiled, but after that is +1 attack or +1 armor the more favourable upgrade?
On March 29 2011 20:41 Thurines wrote: Hi, Im thurines. Im a platinum level player and new to this forum.
In combination with this trick, or in marine vs baneling in general, what would be the best order to apply upgrades? I guess that stim comes first and then combat shiled, but after that is +1 attack or +1 armor the more favourable upgrade?
Or is it just a matter of taste and style?
Banelings are the thing that are going to kill marines and armour upgrade is useless vs them so think about it.
On March 29 2011 09:47 Pepe- wrote: Mix in some speedlings and this gets useless?
No because the real damage hitters are the banelings, and since the terran will have tanks the zerglings will get crushed sooner than the marines
No... the thing is the patrol will make the marines auto attack the nearest target, in this case speedlings which will be everywhere.
In normal splitting your marines will only start shooting after they have reached their destination, keeping them "safe" from baneling splash.
You need to do this patrol split preemptively or risk huge disasters.
Speedings pin. The reason why its better to use something like attack move is that it keeps the marines clumped as they run which makes it harder for speedlings to surround. Also speedlings themselves are quite good against marines especially if they can do a 4 v 1 because all the marines are not next to each other.
added sling mode for NA, type "sling" before lvl 6 (vanilla version is published for EU) cuts number of blings by half, increases number of slings by 3x the number of remaining blings.
This is definitely cool but most good zergs will send in lots of zerglings to surround at the same time, which causes the marines to stop any patrol route and target the lings (which due to their speed quickly catch up to the whole group of marines).
On March 30 2011 02:15 castled wrote: This is definitely cool but most good zergs will send in lots of zerglings to surround at the same time, which causes the marines to stop any patrol route and target the lings (which due to their speed quickly catch up to the whole group of marines).
If you patrol move the marines before the zerglings arrive, you will still 'auto-split' on the zerglings.
If you pre-split like I show in the video above, it's even less of an issue.
On March 29 2011 09:40 Vanchen wrote: Wow this works great, the only thing is if you patrol too late, all your marines will stand still and shoot.
^^
I think this method sucks. I can make it so no banelings connect in an ideal situation. It doesn't take that much more APM to learn splitting / slicing small groups.
On March 29 2011 09:40 Vanchen wrote: Wow this works great, the only thing is if you patrol too late, all your marines will stand still and shoot.
^^
I think this method sucks. I can make it so no banelings connect in an ideal situation. It doesn't take that much more APM to learn splitting / slicing small groups.
See how far you get in Griffith's map doing it manually and let us know.
On March 30 2011 07:49 tekwiN wrote: How do you remap your patrol key to a different key? I'd like to use caps lock.
yes, can someone please show us how to remap the patrol key. it is not in the hotkeys section, i've spent time finding it unless I may have somehow missed it. Thanks in advance.
On March 29 2011 09:40 Vanchen wrote: Wow this works great, the only thing is if you patrol too late, all your marines will stand still and shoot.
^^
I think this method sucks. I can make it so no banelings connect in an ideal situation. It doesn't take that much more APM to learn splitting / slicing small groups.
See how far you get in Griffith's map doing it manually and let us know.
14 before I quit
Eventually it gets to a point where, if there are as many banelings as there are on lvl 14 in a real game situation (and you're on creep), you've kinda fucked up.
On March 29 2011 15:21 Hider wrote: I dont understand how you do this trick. YOu patrol click your marines back. But when the banelings comes, the marines start attacking them and dont run away.
you need to have a fast reaction time as so that doesn't happen.
stim + patrol click back as soon as you seen the banelings and then start splitting
Also, I can't get passed level 12
Has anyone else got stuck on level 12 of the map?
Why use patrol then?. Why not just move back and split? Dont see the benefits.
Tried it again and got up to level 15 before having difficulty.
I've also tried it doing a normal split, and I can guarantee unless you have boxer marine micro you will NOT be able to get anywhere near level 15 on this map.
The key is using patrol AND splitting small marine groups all over the map.
tbh there seems to be a little bit of lag/delay when you try a normal split on this map though. Either way I think this method is a lot more effective in the right situation.
If you don't see the benefits search "Marine split challenge" in the custom games and try the map, you'll find it gets pretty much impossible to use a normal split once you start getting around level 10+.
..... I think he means in a REAL situation not in a custom map thats just marine vs baneling.
this trick won't work in a real game though cause most zerg players come in with speedlings along with banelings so when you are trying the patrol trick since speedlings are so fast they cause most of you marines to start auto attacking making a bad split.
Another method I find nice,is to pick up your marines with the medivacs,which are flying above them as soon as you see the ling/banes coming and start carpet bombing them immediately.
Load Marines -> Issue Medivacs, command to move somewhere -> Click "D"(Drop) on themselves while moving.-> Perfect scatter. The only disadvantage is that it's susceptible to large group of mutalisks.
The interesting part about this is ofc, that it is a lot easier to split your marines beforehand. Slicing everytime is a lot of work, and this seems a lot easier. I'm gonna expirement with splitting my marines beforehand this way.
On March 30 2011 17:39 Blasts wrote: The interesting part about this is ofc, that it is a lot easier to split your marines beforehand. Slicing everytime is a lot of work, and this seems a lot easier. I'm gonna expirement with splitting my marines beforehand this way.
Pre-emptively splitting your marines isn't a common thing to happen in game though. Every time you want to move around your marines, you're not going to split them up every time they stop moving. The point of this is to be able to split your marines at the heat of the moment with little or no warning.
The effect is that the marines nearest the banelings will turn and fire, while the rest continue to run
That's bad. You want nearest marines run from banelings and those more far away attack, but now closest marines are dieing and marines which are far away are just runing..^^
On March 30 2011 14:05 Afterstar wrote: Another method I find nice,is to pick up your marines with the medivacs,which are flying above them as soon as you see the ling/banes coming and start carpet bombing them immediately.
Load Marines -> Issue Medivacs, command to move somewhere -> Click "D"(Drop) on themselves while moving.-> Perfect scatter. The only disadvantage is that it's susceptible to large group of mutalisks.
Depends on the player. I personally don't attack move with my banelings. I regular move them into the fray and when I've got a solid ling surround I set them to attack (Unless I'm sure I'll win, in which case I'll A move and be doing other things).
I can safely say that this is a very effective technique that is simple to use. I set patrol to Q so i have no idea what the problems are. And i dont really see what the difference between this and attack-moving is (can someone clarify this), but it is nonetheless a very effective tactic. I can now safely say Marine > Baneling XD.
The way i do it is patrol away along the x-axis which makes additional splitting in the y-direction easy.
if you react a bit too late it can actually cost you your whole army, because if the banes are close your initial patrol will cause a large portion of your marines to stand and shoot
On March 31 2011 00:21 saaaa wrote: i'm just blind or why i can't find a download link?
Just create a custom game on battle.net. Type "Marine Split" into the search. You will find a map called "Marine Split Challenge" as the top result. When you click on it, the description is "Thread in teamliquid".
On March 31 2011 00:21 saaaa wrote: i'm just blind or why i can't find a download link?
i see your probably on the EU server, but I know this game is on the NA server and not the SEA server, well it wasn't two days ago.. so this might be why you can't find it if it is only available on NA
This map is called "Marine Split EU" its published by littlenemo and is awefully bugged. Theres only 1 level in which you have normal marines vs speed banelings. Fix this, please. Obviously there is something horribly wrong with the EU publishing of this map.
stimmed marines can already kite rolling banes i thought 2.25*1.5=3.375 vs the 2.95 of rolling banes. it is very different on creep though.
a variant of the patrol+run manuever would be to send a marine or scv into the banelings to tank the damage. also splitting your units would be what the Z player wants in the first place... it allows for better surround with the speedlings. i think the best thing is just to perform the split before going into Z base.
On March 31 2011 23:27 cuoongwhomy wrote: Question: Can zerg do this sort of split with banneling? If it works for marines, definitely will work for banneling too right
Banelings are typically going towards the enemy, not away. I'm not sure how this technique would be useful for banelings. Maybe speedlings vs banelings in zvz? You'd have to run at a much more perpendicular angle though since banelings are slower than speedlings, whereas they're faster than marines.
I understand that the technique discussed is patrol splitting, but what is manual splitting? Is it a-click splitting your marines instead of p-splitting them?
I was always under the impression that you had to right click your marines far back and start manually spreading them out by right clicking individual areas, but once I tried a-clicking instead of right-clicking it became 500 times easier. Is right clicking the manual split way, or a-clicking?
I can see why one would p-click rather than a-click since the marines sort of magic box, and I might keep the patrol hotkey as Q from now on just for that, but a-clicking seems to work fine.
I think it's a real neat thing, I haven't made it past 14 on the map with normal splitting. I'm surprised I can even split at all to be effective on creep.
It seems like a wise zerg player would bring just enough banelings to scare the marines into a split, then go heavy lings with good upgrades to punish the split.
On April 05 2011 05:41 Malminos wrote: It seems like a wise zerg player would bring just enough banelings to scare the marines into a split, then go heavy lings with good upgrades to punish the split.
Mass marines with medivacs will rape speedlings regardless of if they're split or not, and stacking up again is as simple as 1a-ing.
Not to mention tanks makes any engagement a do or die for the zerg, he can't bait any units, if he goes in, he needs to go in.
On March 29 2011 10:17 renaissanceMAN wrote: i just split my marines up individually into a giant field, much like a minefield and then just have them stand there
On April 05 2011 05:13 Dalavita wrote: I understand that the technique discussed is patrol splitting, but what is manual splitting? Is it a-click splitting your marines instead of p-splitting them?
I was always under the impression that you had to right click your marines far back and start manually spreading them out by right clicking individual areas, but once I tried a-clicking instead of right-clicking it became 500 times easier. Is right clicking the manual split way, or a-clicking?
I can see why one would p-click rather than a-click since the marines sort of magic box, and I might keep the patrol hotkey as Q from now on just for that, but a-clicking seems to work fine.
Manual splitting is move-command or right click.
On April 05 2011 06:24 rmAmnesiac wrote: any chance of this custom map coming to eu? would be great to try it out.
edit: i can see you've said it should be available but it's not
Take it up in Griffith's thread (linked in OP). He's the author and manager of the map
oh wow. this is extremely effective and so easy to do. I feel it undermines some of the micro of the game...
Lets remember you almost always have to hit clumps of marines with banes or you lose the exchange economically... i wonder what patrol attack with banelings does.. of anything
Hi, I haven't tried the map yet but how about having your main group of marines split into 2-3 control groups before the battle? I guess it wouldn't work for me as I have a small hand and I'm not very good at quick "keyboard hand panning" but it seems faster to use hotkeys.
I'm not sure at which level of play you need to split well and my personal opinion is that in large numbers banelings are a waste of gas but I'd expect that having 3 control groups of marines in one cluster is a good start.
Why is it that you would need to use patrol and not a-move? I thought units behaved the same on patrol and a-move? I'd rather not stretch to P for this, and I'd prefer not to have to change the hotkeys. But if there's a difference between p-move and a-move, then I'll have to.
This is a cool trick, props to you for figuring it out, but isn't the way ZvT is won by having a Speedling surround while the Banelings run in to finish things off?
On April 14 2011 19:45 Acritter wrote: This is a cool trick, props to you for figuring it out, but isn't the way ZvT is won by having a Speedling surround while the Banelings run in to finish things off?
Sure, if you let a big group of marines get isolated like that. In reality you're gonna have tank coverage. This just gives you a really quick way of getting a decent split to maximise your effieciency.
maps on eu! woo. just got a few questions, got to lvl 12 only myslef but then i'm not very good. are you only using patrol spltis for your first few groups of marines or are using them for each sub divide? it seems when the banelings are close a move command is better than a patrol command? also how faw away are you clicking with your original patrol commands?edge of map of screen or closer ?
On April 14 2011 19:45 Acritter wrote: This is a cool trick, props to you for figuring it out, but isn't the way ZvT is won by having a Speedling surround while the Banelings run in to finish things off?
Considering even the top zergs in the world rarely do this (multidirectional flanking), it's not something you'll see often. Patrol splitting is more effective than just kiting on creep if a speedling/baneling mix is coming at you from 1 direction.
On April 14 2011 23:48 rmAmnesiac wrote: maps on eu! woo. just got a few questions, got to lvl 12 only myslef but then i'm not very good. are you only using patrol spltis for your first few groups of marines or are using them for each sub divide? it seems when the banelings are close a move command is better than a patrol command? also how faw away are you clicking with your original patrol commands?edge of map of screen or closer ?
I use patrol command for the first 3 branches of the Y, and sometimes after that. However, once banelings are close you need to move command to continue splitting if you still have a big cluster. The pictures should give you a decent idea of how far I'm clicking. In general, farther is better.
how can you continue patrol splitting once lings are involved? because they catch them so fast patrol command will just behave like an attack command and marines will bunch up and stop moving almost immediately
Am I doing something wrong? If you react to late (ie see red on minimap, click, see that it's banelings, react) all the marines just stay and shoot. If this is normal, this technique would probably only work when you are staring at your marines.
On April 21 2011 10:31 Erzz wrote: Am I doing something wrong? If you react to late (ie see red on minimap, click, see that it's banelings, react) all the marines just stay and shoot. If this is normal, this technique would probably only work when you are staring at your marines.
thats true. The marines are going to shoot at the Banes automatically when they are patroling. But if you for example have a Xel'Naga Watch Tower under control and you see those Banelings rolling earlier, u should be able to react in Time.
On April 21 2011 10:31 Erzz wrote: Am I doing something wrong? If you react to late (ie see red on minimap, click, see that it's banelings, react) all the marines just stay and shoot. If this is normal, this technique would probably only work when you are staring at your marines.
well think a little. in Patrol, Attack is first priority, thats why the marines stand there shooting, if not, theyd just call it move
OP should make more clear why this whole thing is even possible. That when banelings are going after you faster than your marines run away some of the patrolled marines will stop to shoot while others will go on running untill baneling go into their range. This also opens up some interesting problems: what if zerg has no creep? will the marines outrun the banelings? should you not stim in that case? Other point is it is beneficial to keep your marines not in a ball at the start but in kind of line with one of the sides in the direction the attack is coming from, this way marines will stop more 1by1 and not 3-4 at a time. Also turning around is a great option against this technique leaving the terran with stim damage delt and no benefits (and since you have to stim prematurely this is often possible, unless you are commited by tanks shooting). Anyway a very nice trick to know.
This would probably only work if there is only blings going towards your marines. So Large scale battles would most likely just put your marines behind your rauders or behind your tanks. Spreading your marines in ling+bling is also useful unless they have something that can flank your rines.
On April 23 2011 22:35 Cheerio wrote: OP should make more clear why this whole thing is even possible. That when banelings are going after you faster than your marines run away some of the patrolled marines will stop to shoot while others will go on running untill baneling go into their range. This also opens up some interesting problems: what if zerg has no creep? will the marines outrun the banelings? should you not stim in that case? Other point is it is beneficial to keep your marines not in a ball at the start but in kind of line with one of the sides in the direction the attack is coming from, this way marines will stop more 1by1 and not 3-4 at a time. Also turning around is a great option against this technique leaving the terran with stim damage delt and no benefits (and since you have to stim prematurely this is often possible, unless you are commited by tanks shooting). Anyway a very nice trick to know.
If you want to continue to use the trick in those circumstances, you'll just need to run at a sharper angle. However it's often better to just kite in those situations, since the opponent can't catch you unless you mess up.
Got to 19 with a little bit of luck. Past lvl17 I started just blindly picked a corner to run away from, 1/4 of the time it failed miserably, 1/2 of the time it did ok, and 1/4 of the time i actually had a shot at passing the level. Thanks so much to Moja and Griffith!
Thanks for sharing the information! Started out as a noob who can't even get pass level 2 and now manage to reach level 21 with the patrol trick and some improve splitting apm. Now I am able to reach level 16 most of the time with the patrol trick and level 9 by manual.
Definitely a good training for terran players. This has improve my winrate against zerg as before, I have lost countless game where zerg just cost efficiently baneling me to death.
On April 25 2011 15:48 grizzlyking wrote: Can someone please explain why patrol moving is better than a-moving? If you a-move, the marines wont come back into the blings.
im not sure mabye both ways are good, but when they patrol they come back with stim to kill the banelings faster?
On April 25 2011 15:48 grizzlyking wrote: Can someone please explain why patrol moving is better than a-moving? If you a-move, the marines wont come back into the blings.
im not sure mabye both ways are good, but when they patrol they come back with stim to kill the banelings faster?
If you have it on attack command they will turn back to assist the marines in the back who start shooting, so if one marine starts shooting at the banelings the marine next to him will go help even though the banelings arent in his aggro-range.
On April 25 2011 15:48 grizzlyking wrote: Can someone please explain why patrol moving is better than a-moving? If you a-move, the marines wont come back into the blings.
im not sure mabye both ways are good, but when they patrol they come back with stim to kill the banelings faster?
If you have it on attack command they will turn back to assist the marines in the back who start shooting, so if one marine starts shooting at the banelings the marine next to him will go help even though the banelings arent in his aggro-range.
Do you have any evidence of this? I don't think it's correct and I think the only reason patrol was used in the OP is to ensure that all the marines eventually come back and shoot the banelings
On May 04 2011 01:31 Azzur wrote: Btw, during set1 of sC vs Losira, GSL May code S ro8, I'm pretty sure sC used the patrol split technique at certain points.
Sweet! I didn't catch that game but I'll definitely check it out.
As a Zerg player, what is to stop me from just pulling back into the Fog of War and burrowing? Chasing marines with banelings never seems to work out for me since tanks are usually awaiting my arrival, so my first reaction is rarely to chase. During a large fight/final push this would be very difficult to execute while maintaining micro across your other units.
Aside from this, it seems like for the effort, the APM is roughly the same as box clicking.
Not trolling or trying to be a downer just thought I would bring up the questions. Educate me where I am wrong.
On May 09 2011 10:25 TelAvivXJoeX wrote: As a Zerg player, what is to stop me from just pulling back into the Fog of War and burrowing? Chasing marines with banelings never seems to work out for me since tanks are usually awaiting my arrival, so my first reaction is rarely to chase. During a large fight/final push this would be very difficult to execute while maintaining micro across your other units.
Aside from this, it seems like for the effort, the APM is roughly the same as box clicking.
Not trolling or trying to be a downer just thought I would bring up the questions. Educate me where I am wrong.
The primary use of this will be in small engagements in the early and midgame when you have zero tanks or a low tank count. In large fights with tanks it's better to just run away.
As for APM, it is SIGNIFICANTLY better to use patrol split than move command box splitting when you just have pure marines vs a one direction ling/baneling attack. As I noted in the OP, I got to around level 13 with box clicking and level 21 with patrol splitting. The difference is massive.
This isn't "the one micro trick to rule them all". It's a tool that should be used in conjunction with other micro techniques such as move command for optimal results.
On May 09 2011 10:25 TelAvivXJoeX wrote: As a Zerg player, what is to stop me from just pulling back into the Fog of War and burrowing? Chasing marines with banelings never seems to work out for me since tanks are usually awaiting my arrival, so my first reaction is rarely to chase. During a large fight/final push this would be very difficult to execute while maintaining micro across your other units.
Aside from this, it seems like for the effort, the APM is roughly the same as box clicking.
Not trolling or trying to be a downer just thought I would bring up the questions. Educate me where I am wrong.
The primary use of this will be in small engagements in the early and midgame when you have zero tanks or a low tank count. In large fights with tanks it's better to just run away.
As for APM, it is SIGNIFICANTLY better to use patrol split than move command box splitting when you just have pure marines vs a one direction ling/baneling attack. As I noted in the OP, I got to around level 13 with box clicking and level 21 with patrol splitting. The difference is massive.
This isn't "the one micro trick to rule them all". It's a tool that should be used in conjunction with other micro techniques such as move command for optimal results.
Ah I see. I should really give it a try myself before bashing it honestly ha-ha. But I wasn't intentionally bashing it, just had questions. I'm glad someone can actually admit that their idea isn't totally flawless in every possible way.
hmm i dont think the explanation and pictures are very clear.
1. stim and patrol all marines away from the banelings before they get into attack range 2. box some marines and patrol in a new angle away from the banelings 3. repeat 2 until all marines or banelings are dead
question for the OP, you said that after level five you are being cost efficient. Is this with or without stim? what about vs slings?
Also I was wondering if there was some sort of first person VOD of anybody doing this with the slice technique. Not many people have micro good enough for it, and replays can't really show how it is done. Closest thing i've seen is Jinro's marine split which is pretty sick :D
On June 26 2011 10:03 yiodee wrote: question for the OP, you said that after level five you are being cost efficient. Is this with or without stim? what about vs slings?
Also I was wondering if there was some sort of first person VOD of anybody doing this with the slice technique. Not many people have micro good enough for it, and replays can't really show how it is done. Closest thing i've seen is Jinro's marine split which is pretty sick :D
After 5 levels, the zerg ai has more resources than you, so passing that level and any future levels means you are being cost efficient. This applies to both normal and sling mode. Stim is a one time cost so it doesn't make sense to factor it in for gameplay situations.
I think you can find some decent VOD's on youtube. Look up Marine Split.
wow, this is indeed a HUGE bonus, especially if the Terrn has Marauders in his Army... Just keep them in the front and you can micro them very easily to slow Blings and absorb a vast amount of them.
On July 03 2011 22:17 Rosaria wrote: I have tried it myself but I can't see the difference between patrolling and A-moving backwards. Can someone explain to me in detail?
You need to begin the patrol before they are in auto-attack range, or else they will just stand there.
That's great, but here's the reality. Marinekingprime and all other pros don't use this trick. Most zerg armys consist of not only banlinegs, but *gasp*, speedlings as well. When you attempt to patrol your marines with lings inbetween your marines, guess what? Yeah, it doesn't work. You have to either manually move your marines, or as I like to do it, use the "move command" key and constantly left click.
thats why until midgame in TvZ, i always have a few rauders to buffer damage. if you individually hotkey the rines and put the rauders on hold position as you pull the marines back (with or without patrol doesnt matter much) a lot of damage will get absorbed by the big guys, as rauders have 125 hp and unupgraded banelings only do 20 dmg against them.
On July 04 2011 03:08 SolidPyre wrote: That's great, but here's the reality. Marinekingprime and all other pros don't use this trick. Most zerg armys consist of not only banlinegs, but *gasp*, speedlings as well. When you attempt to patrol your marines with lings inbetween your marines, guess what? Yeah, it doesn't work. You have to either manually move your marines, or as I like to do it, use the "move command" key and constantly left click.
patrol still has some use to pre split but idd, once any unit is in range of the marine they'll stop to fire until everything in sight is dead so speed lings ruin this trick, it's way better to split manually. see this guide:
So one nice thing I noticed about the patrol split was that, when I patrol backwards with my marines, the marines closest to the banelings would stop, fire, and tank a shot. Obviously, this doesn't work with the speedlings mixed in, which pretty much makes this trick very limited in use.
So I was practicing splitting manually, but my hand speed is just not that quick, as I have to move my mouse back and forth. I actually noticed something that might be of use, its like mixing the patrol trick with the manual move trick.
1. Move your marines back, far away preferably 2. Select 1 or 2 marines 3. Stop command (hold could be used too) 4. repeat step 2.
Now what this does, is actually replicate the patrol command, albeit, alot less efficient, but it seems to work against a speedling mix, as it doesn't stop all your marines in place. Also, I find this MUCH easier to do than a manual split as you can just, "click, S, click, S, click, S".
Of course, IF you can do a manual move split, that would be alot better, as you have more marines shooting at once, but for people with lesser hand speed or less accuracy, it might be alot easier, and practical.
On July 21 2011 00:20 kenkou wrote: So one nice thing I noticed about the patrol split was that, when I patrol backwards with my marines, the marines closest to the banelings would stop, fire, and tank a shot. Obviously, this doesn't work with the speedlings mixed in, which pretty much makes this trick very limited in use.
So attack-moving backwards doesn't do the same? Looks like it to me.
On July 21 2011 00:20 kenkou wrote: So one nice thing I noticed about the patrol split was that, when I patrol backwards with my marines, the marines closest to the banelings would stop, fire, and tank a shot. Obviously, this doesn't work with the speedlings mixed in, which pretty much makes this trick very limited in use.
So attack-moving backwards doesn't do the same? Looks like it to me.
It doesn't if there are speedlings in the mix, all the marines will turn around and attack them.
I would also like to ask it, i think it's strongly affected by upgrades/medivacs. I'm zerg, but as terran i find splittling vs speedling bane still a bit efficient (losing 50 marines to 5 banes is never good trade), but i would like to see some pro terran opinion too.
On July 21 2011 00:20 kenkou wrote: So one nice thing I noticed about the patrol split was that, when I patrol backwards with my marines, the marines closest to the banelings would stop, fire, and tank a shot. Obviously, this doesn't work with the speedlings mixed in, which pretty much makes this trick very limited in use.
So I was practicing splitting manually, but my hand speed is just not that quick, as I have to move my mouse back and forth. I actually noticed something that might be of use, its like mixing the patrol trick with the manual move trick.
1. Move your marines back, far away preferably 2. Select 1 or 2 marines 3. Stop command (hold could be used too) 4. repeat step 2.
Now what this does, is actually replicate the patrol command, albeit, alot less efficient, but it seems to work against a speedling mix, as it doesn't stop all your marines in place. Also, I find this MUCH easier to do than a manual split as you can just, "click, S, click, S, click, S".
Of course, IF you can do a manual move split, that would be alot better, as you have more marines shooting at once, but for people with lesser hand speed or less accuracy, it might be alot easier, and practical.
I've been trying just box selecting little clumps of marines and sending them in different directions.
I dont think this will really work agains a Zerg who knows to run the zlings behind the marines to make splits harder, is quite a find, but still very situational, I´d rather use the manual split.
I've tried it and it seems very gimmicky, I think I'll stick to the old fashioned manual way. Maybe if I saw a high-level pro do it, then I'll join in.
I played marine split challenge few moments ago, and this trick doesn't work anymore WTF? O.o When I patrol away, marines just stay where they stayed and dont move.
On February 16 2012 20:38 haaz wrote: I played marine split challenge few moments ago, and this trick doesn't work anymore WTF? O.o When I patrol away, marines just stay where they stayed and dont move.
Anyone got same problem?
you're patrolling too late, if the units are in attack range, it won't work.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ovzJ2.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/iFfrm.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/qPECu.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Ubdfk.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/WG2mz.png)
). You also have to start moving before enemy units get in range. However, it's great to have this technique in your arsenal.
I wish it was spotlighted!
