• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:37
CET 17:37
KST 01:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview1RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced
Tourneys
Tenacious Turtle Tussle 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
[BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Let's talk about Metropolis Foreign Brood War
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Black Ops 6 Camo Service – Fast, Safe & Reliable Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 886 users

Patrol Splitting: I'm no MVP

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
November 08 2010 22:49 GMT
#1
So I've been having issues with banelings TvZ. Who hasn't. Marine versus Baneling is just something that the Terran player has to learn to live with. I have come up with a bit of a solution to make the Terran's life a bit easier.

Firstly I loaded up the unit tester and put 25 banelings against 40 marines. A fair fight and one you may find yourself in at some point in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/o4MTy.jpg

The results of this battle are as follows: 4 banelings survived
(Note: this is a simple a-move versus a-move encounter)

http://i.imgur.com/h67JJ.jpg


Now here is my Marine ball "p" moving towards the enemy banes. Notice how it is in zig-zags. I noticed if you patrol a large cluster of units they will automatically spread out. This is decent for attacking but far better for setting up automatically split defense.

http://i.imgur.com/CHzTE.jpg

Here is my marine ball once engaged. I quickly realized if you don't tell your marines to hold position you accomplish very little splitting, almost as bad as simply a-moving. So once the first marine engages to pull the army towards him I simply told the entire pack to hold position, here is the resulting formation.

http://i.imgur.com/knObL.jpg

And here is the aftermath. 4 marines survive with very little health. Not great but better than 4 banes surviving.

http://i.imgur.com/fQHnb.jpg



When I first got this idea into my head I was honestly hoping for something similar to magic box mutalisk. I'd set the patrol to spread my army, move behind the banes and tell them to stop. I couldn't quite get that to work in the unit tester. Maybe it was the small map size, maybe it simply doesn't work since all the marines want to converge to a central point. I'm not sure. I'm by no means saying this will instantly give you Marine vs Baneling levels of micro that FoxeR or MVP have but this could be a suitable "everyman" solution.
Wat
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
November 08 2010 22:51 GMT
#2
I have to run out for a bit but I'll be back soon'ish to answer any possible questions or concerns so I'm not an abandonist OP
Wat
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 22:58:04
November 08 2010 22:57 GMT
#3
Is baneling speed there? I dont know any zerg who would get that many and not have it. Hard to tell if this is effective unless someone can show replays of this.
IamBach
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1059 Posts
November 08 2010 23:01 GMT
#4
there is clearly no banling speed
Just listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lCZeePG48
dark88
Profile Joined June 2010
United States35 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 23:05:38
November 08 2010 23:04 GMT
#5
I was practicing on that same map. It's harder because of how small it is, but you can change to the base raid layout in that map, and its a bit bigger and easy to micro.

I was trying a concept sending them all to the side, then shift-click on a wireframe unit to deselect him, and move the rest back some more. Then, one by one, just keep shift-clicking another unit out of the group as you keep moving around.

It works ok, but without stim, it's still very difficult and requires lots of practice.
Selkie
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States530 Posts
November 08 2010 23:05 GMT
#6
Hey!

Interesting post- have you tried to see what happens once stim + combat shields are in place? (Stim without combat shields means banes 1 shot marines, which would be bad.)

Secondly, the baneling speed thing- is it on?

Thanks
Ptur
Profile Joined July 2010
Ukraine85 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-27 11:59:29
November 08 2010 23:07 GMT
#7
doesnt seem reliable during a real game
KillerPlague
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1386 Posts
November 08 2010 23:07 GMT
#8
sucky thing is vs any other zerg units you want your marines clustered for the added dps
Side 1: Why no dominant players with 90% win ratio Side 2: Nerf Side 1
Wargizmo
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia1237 Posts
November 08 2010 23:11 GMT
#9

Interesting, I think patrol is definitely underused in this game. I'm going to change the hotkey from P to Q because P is just too far to reach across the keyboard to make it useful
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is best. - Frank Zappa
whaTITdoz
Profile Joined April 2010
United States92 Posts
November 08 2010 23:15 GMT
#10
That is pretty cool. I will definitely have to give this a try in a real game. Probably will help even more to group the marines in different control groups and have them all patrolling a little differently.
Tyler918273
Profile Joined September 2010
115 Posts
November 08 2010 23:17 GMT
#11
I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.
vxl
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden64 Posts
November 08 2010 23:18 GMT
#12
On November 09 2010 08:05 Selkie wrote:
Secondly, the baneling speed thing- is it on?

Judging from the 4th screenshot, no.

This should also be tested with banespeed and shield+stim researched.
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
November 08 2010 23:20 GMT
#13
I've experimented with this in the past, its really hit or miss. Sometimes all your marines die, othertimes you come out nearly unscathed. I just prefer to stim, run, and then split.
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
November 08 2010 23:20 GMT
#14
On November 09 2010 08:17 Tyler918273 wrote:
I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.

That won't work for the same reason it usually doesn't in ZvZ, no one is going to a-move banelings at you if they are paying attention.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
Lucius2
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany548 Posts
November 08 2010 23:23 GMT
#15
already known and has seen 0 appearances so far
eXigent.
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada2419 Posts
November 08 2010 23:27 GMT
#16
Personally I dont think using commands like patrol are the most ideal when it comes to baneling dodging. I find that practicing doing it manually works out much better in the end. I like to hotkey mauraders and about 10 marines in control group 1, then the remainder of the marines in control group 2 and 3. This allows for both manually splitting marines, as well as quickly getting them back into a group when needed. You can simply attack move forward with the maurader group, while splitting groups 2 and 3 of marines, and then quickly taking 6-7 pockets of marines and sending them away. He is busy dealing with the mauraders/10marines getting free hits as his banelings hunt your bigger marine packs, which become super hard for him, as they quickly split into 10+ groups. Combine that with a few tanks in seige mode targetting his banelings, and it becomes alot more managable.



On November 09 2010 08:17 Tyler918273 wrote:
I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.


Yeah terran players already do this , usually with a maurader as it can take 5-6 baneling hits before dieing.
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
November 08 2010 23:30 GMT
#17
i wonder why you would want to use this inferior method instead of practising actually splitting them manually? i mean, sure, if youre micro is very bad, then this is better than a-moving, but if you dont practise splitting, you'll never get better at it..
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
zzaaxxsscd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States626 Posts
November 08 2010 23:52 GMT
#18
need stim and baneling speed, because players will (should) automatically get these upgrades if they see their opponents going heavy bane or marine
ganil
Profile Joined August 2009
253 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-09 00:19:27
November 08 2010 23:54 GMT
#19
I gave it a try.

30 baneling vs 40 marines.

With the patrol move you can make a "line" of marine and then split it manually.

Unuppgraded marines vs unuppgrades banelings : marines win most of the time (usually between 2-5 survivors).
When banelings win they're usually 3 left.
With a moved marines 8 blings left or sthg.

edit : with standard micro I managed to win with 40 marines vs 35 bling after a few try (a moving bling before selecting marines with stim.bling speed & shield)
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
November 09 2010 00:19 GMT
#20
are you trying to say this is how MVP/foxer did it? I figured they just had gosu mouse control and just split all the marines into groups of 2/3 so that way its cost effective. 2 banelings (100/50 resource) to kill 3 marines (150 minerals) is extremely cost effective.

If you use 25 banelings, in theory if you just drop off one at a time by shift clicking on the control bar and continually moving then it should tkae just 12 marines to suicide their way in.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko489
SKillous 75
Vindicta 30
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24227
Calm 3534
Sea 3122
Mini 1054
Jaedong 809
EffOrt 791
Larva 688
Soma 563
Light 508
hero 313
[ Show more ]
Snow 309
Sharp 233
actioN 215
BeSt 191
Rush 138
Dewaltoss 106
sorry 36
Mind 34
Bale 30
Terrorterran 28
Mong 28
scan(afreeca) 26
ajuk12(nOOB) 18
soO 17
HiyA 9
Dota 2
Gorgc7231
qojqva2684
syndereN390
Counter-Strike
fl0m5275
zeus428
Other Games
FrodaN3579
hiko530
Beastyqt529
Liquid`VortiX154
KnowMe135
QueenE74
ArmadaUGS72
Trikslyr52
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV35
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 77
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Noizen42
League of Legends
• TFBlade1307
Other Games
• Scarra1531
• WagamamaTV142
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
23m
RSL Revival
11h 53m
StarCraft2.fi
17h 23m
IPSL
1d
Sziky vs JDConan
OSC
1d
Solar vs Percival
Gerald vs Nicoract
Creator vs ByuN
RSL Revival
1d 11h
Classic vs TBD
herO vs Zoun
WardiTV 2025
1d 20h
herO vs ShoWTimE
SHIN vs herO
Clem vs herO
SHIN vs Clem
SHIN vs ShoWTimE
Clem vs ShoWTimE
IPSL
2 days
Tarson vs DragOn
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.