|
So I've been having issues with banelings TvZ. Who hasn't. Marine versus Baneling is just something that the Terran player has to learn to live with. I have come up with a bit of a solution to make the Terran's life a bit easier.
Firstly I loaded up the unit tester and put 25 banelings against 40 marines. A fair fight and one you may find yourself in at some point in the game.
http://i.imgur.com/o4MTy.jpg
The results of this battle are as follows: 4 banelings survived
(Note: this is a simple a-move versus a-move encounter)
http://i.imgur.com/h67JJ.jpg
Now here is my Marine ball "p" moving towards the enemy banes. Notice how it is in zig-zags. I noticed if you patrol a large cluster of units they will automatically spread out. This is decent for attacking but far better for setting up automatically split defense.
http://i.imgur.com/CHzTE.jpg
Here is my marine ball once engaged. I quickly realized if you don't tell your marines to hold position you accomplish very little splitting, almost as bad as simply a-moving. So once the first marine engages to pull the army towards him I simply told the entire pack to hold position, here is the resulting formation.
http://i.imgur.com/knObL.jpg
And here is the aftermath. 4 marines survive with very little health. Not great but better than 4 banes surviving.
http://i.imgur.com/fQHnb.jpg
When I first got this idea into my head I was honestly hoping for something similar to magic box mutalisk. I'd set the patrol to spread my army, move behind the banes and tell them to stop. I couldn't quite get that to work in the unit tester. Maybe it was the small map size, maybe it simply doesn't work since all the marines want to converge to a central point. I'm not sure. I'm by no means saying this will instantly give you Marine vs Baneling levels of micro that FoxeR or MVP have but this could be a suitable "everyman" solution.
|
I have to run out for a bit but I'll be back soon'ish to answer any possible questions or concerns so I'm not an abandonist OP 
|
Is baneling speed there? I dont know any zerg who would get that many and not have it. Hard to tell if this is effective unless someone can show replays of this.
|
there is clearly no banling speed
|
I was practicing on that same map. It's harder because of how small it is, but you can change to the base raid layout in that map, and its a bit bigger and easy to micro.
I was trying a concept sending them all to the side, then shift-click on a wireframe unit to deselect him, and move the rest back some more. Then, one by one, just keep shift-clicking another unit out of the group as you keep moving around.
It works ok, but without stim, it's still very difficult and requires lots of practice.
|
Hey!
Interesting post- have you tried to see what happens once stim + combat shields are in place? (Stim without combat shields means banes 1 shot marines, which would be bad.)
Secondly, the baneling speed thing- is it on?
Thanks
|
doesnt seem reliable during a real game
|
sucky thing is vs any other zerg units you want your marines clustered for the added dps
|
Interesting, I think patrol is definitely underused in this game. I'm going to change the hotkey from P to Q because P is just too far to reach across the keyboard to make it useful
|
That is pretty cool. I will definitely have to give this a try in a real game. Probably will help even more to group the marines in different control groups and have them all patrolling a little differently.
|
I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.
|
On November 09 2010 08:05 Selkie wrote:
Secondly, the baneling speed thing- is it on?
Judging from the 4th screenshot, no.
This should also be tested with banespeed and shield+stim researched.
|
I've experimented with this in the past, its really hit or miss. Sometimes all your marines die, othertimes you come out nearly unscathed. I just prefer to stim, run, and then split.
|
United States2096 Posts
On November 09 2010 08:17 Tyler918273 wrote:
I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.
That won't work for the same reason it usually doesn't in ZvZ, no one is going to a-move banelings at you if they are paying attention.
|
already known and has seen 0 appearances so far
|
Personally I dont think using commands like patrol are the most ideal when it comes to baneling dodging. I find that practicing doing it manually works out much better in the end. I like to hotkey mauraders and about 10 marines in control group 1, then the remainder of the marines in control group 2 and 3. This allows for both manually splitting marines, as well as quickly getting them back into a group when needed. You can simply attack move forward with the maurader group, while splitting groups 2 and 3 of marines, and then quickly taking 6-7 pockets of marines and sending them away. He is busy dealing with the mauraders/10marines getting free hits as his banelings hunt your bigger marine packs, which become super hard for him, as they quickly split into 10+ groups. Combine that with a few tanks in seige mode targetting his banelings, and it becomes alot more managable.
On November 09 2010 08:17 Tyler918273 wrote:
I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.
Yeah terran players already do this , usually with a maurader as it can take 5-6 baneling hits before dieing.
|
i wonder why you would want to use this inferior method instead of practising actually splitting them manually? i mean, sure, if youre micro is very bad, then this is better than a-moving, but if you dont practise splitting, you'll never get better at it..
|
need stim and baneling speed, because players will (should) automatically get these upgrades if they see their opponents going heavy bane or marine
|
I gave it a try.
30 baneling vs 40 marines.
With the patrol move you can make a "line" of marine and then split it manually.
Unuppgraded marines vs unuppgrades banelings : marines win most of the time (usually between 2-5 survivors).
When banelings win they're usually 3 left.
With a moved marines 8 blings left or sthg.
edit : with standard micro I managed to win with 40 marines vs 35 bling after a few try (a moving bling before selecting marines with stim.bling speed & shield)
|
are you trying to say this is how MVP/foxer did it? I figured they just had gosu mouse control and just split all the marines into groups of 2/3 so that way its cost effective. 2 banelings (100/50 resource) to kill 3 marines (150 minerals) is extremely cost effective.
If you use 25 banelings, in theory if you just drop off one at a time by shift clicking on the control bar and continually moving then it should tkae just 12 marines to suicide their way in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
