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So I've been having issues with banelings TvZ. Who hasn't. Marine versus Baneling is just something that the Terran player has to learn to live with. I have come up with a bit of a solution to make the Terran's life a bit easier.
Firstly I loaded up the unit tester and put 25 banelings against 40 marines. A fair fight and one you may find yourself in at some point in the game.
http://i.imgur.com/o4MTy.jpg
The results of this battle are as follows: 4 banelings survived
(Note: this is a simple a-move versus a-move encounter)
http://i.imgur.com/h67JJ.jpg
Now here is my Marine ball "p" moving towards the enemy banes. Notice how it is in zig-zags. I noticed if you patrol a large cluster of units they will automatically spread out. This is decent for attacking but far better for setting up automatically split defense.
http://i.imgur.com/CHzTE.jpg
Here is my marine ball once engaged. I quickly realized if you don't tell your marines to hold position you accomplish very little splitting, almost as bad as simply a-moving. So once the first marine engages to pull the army towards him I simply told the entire pack to hold position, here is the resulting formation.
http://i.imgur.com/knObL.jpg
And here is the aftermath. 4 marines survive with very little health. Not great but better than 4 banes surviving.
http://i.imgur.com/fQHnb.jpg
When I first got this idea into my head I was honestly hoping for something similar to magic box mutalisk. I'd set the patrol to spread my army, move behind the banes and tell them to stop. I couldn't quite get that to work in the unit tester. Maybe it was the small map size, maybe it simply doesn't work since all the marines want to converge to a central point. I'm not sure. I'm by no means saying this will instantly give you Marine vs Baneling levels of micro that FoxeR or MVP have but this could be a suitable "everyman" solution.
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I have to run out for a bit but I'll be back soon'ish to answer any possible questions or concerns so I'm not an abandonist OP 
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Is baneling speed there? I dont know any zerg who would get that many and not have it. Hard to tell if this is effective unless someone can show replays of this.
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there is clearly no banling speed
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I was practicing on that same map. It's harder because of how small it is, but you can change to the base raid layout in that map, and its a bit bigger and easy to micro.
I was trying a concept sending them all to the side, then shift-click on a wireframe unit to deselect him, and move the rest back some more. Then, one by one, just keep shift-clicking another unit out of the group as you keep moving around.
It works ok, but without stim, it's still very difficult and requires lots of practice.
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Hey!
Interesting post- have you tried to see what happens once stim + combat shields are in place? (Stim without combat shields means banes 1 shot marines, which would be bad.)
Secondly, the baneling speed thing- is it on?
Thanks
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doesnt seem reliable during a real game
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sucky thing is vs any other zerg units you want your marines clustered for the added dps
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Interesting, I think patrol is definitely underused in this game. I'm going to change the hotkey from P to Q because P is just too far to reach across the keyboard to make it useful
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That is pretty cool. I will definitely have to give this a try in a real game. Probably will help even more to group the marines in different control groups and have them all patrolling a little differently.
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I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.
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On November 09 2010 08:05 Selkie wrote:
Secondly, the baneling speed thing- is it on?
Judging from the 4th screenshot, no.
This should also be tested with banespeed and shield+stim researched.
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I've experimented with this in the past, its really hit or miss. Sometimes all your marines die, othertimes you come out nearly unscathed. I just prefer to stim, run, and then split.
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On November 09 2010 08:17 Tyler918273 wrote:
I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.
That won't work for the same reason it usually doesn't in ZvZ, no one is going to a-move banelings at you if they are paying attention.
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already known and has seen 0 appearances so far
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Personally I dont think using commands like patrol are the most ideal when it comes to baneling dodging. I find that practicing doing it manually works out much better in the end. I like to hotkey mauraders and about 10 marines in control group 1, then the remainder of the marines in control group 2 and 3. This allows for both manually splitting marines, as well as quickly getting them back into a group when needed. You can simply attack move forward with the maurader group, while splitting groups 2 and 3 of marines, and then quickly taking 6-7 pockets of marines and sending them away. He is busy dealing with the mauraders/10marines getting free hits as his banelings hunt your bigger marine packs, which become super hard for him, as they quickly split into 10+ groups. Combine that with a few tanks in seige mode targetting his banelings, and it becomes alot more managable.
On November 09 2010 08:17 Tyler918273 wrote:
I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.
Yeah terran players already do this , usually with a maurader as it can take 5-6 baneling hits before dieing.
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i wonder why you would want to use this inferior method instead of practising actually splitting them manually? i mean, sure, if youre micro is very bad, then this is better than a-moving, but if you dont practise splitting, you'll never get better at it..
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need stim and baneling speed, because players will (should) automatically get these upgrades if they see their opponents going heavy bane or marine
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I gave it a try.
30 baneling vs 40 marines.
With the patrol move you can make a "line" of marine and then split it manually.
Unuppgraded marines vs unuppgrades banelings : marines win most of the time (usually between 2-5 survivors).
When banelings win they're usually 3 left.
With a moved marines 8 blings left or sthg.
edit : with standard micro I managed to win with 40 marines vs 35 bling after a few try (a moving bling before selecting marines with stim.bling speed & shield)
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are you trying to say this is how MVP/foxer did it? I figured they just had gosu mouse control and just split all the marines into groups of 2/3 so that way its cost effective. 2 banelings (100/50 resource) to kill 3 marines (150 minerals) is extremely cost effective.
If you use 25 banelings, in theory if you just drop off one at a time by shift clicking on the control bar and continually moving then it should tkae just 12 marines to suicide their way in.
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Foxer Said that he simply manually would spread his marines in his interview with Artosis
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On November 09 2010 09:22 Raiden X wrote:
Foxer Said that he simply manually would spread his marines in his interview with Artosis
Iam rly wondering what his APM spike is when he is splitting ... like 800+?! ^^
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On November 09 2010 08:17 Tyler918273 wrote:
I dont play terran but wonder if baneling peeling could work with marines like it does zerglings? I dont see why it wouldn't its just that you usually have this problem in zvt with bigger armies than in zvz. Peeling is a term I picked up from a caster, dont remember who, but is where you send 1 ling at a time to pick off a bane in case it was unclear.
It's hard for Terran because if a pack of small marines go off, they can be easily killed by the zerglings before banelings have chance to touch them.
That is the problem with marine spreading, if you don't spread them, baneling will kill you, if you spread them, zergling swarm will own you since they can easily surround you. I think TLO hinted about his strat in LT weekly.
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EPT
