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GSL Finals Analysis (Spoilers Obviously)

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-20 14:14:52
March 20 2011 06:44 GMT
#1
In order to try and stifle the whines coming out from every SC2 player, I'm making this thread to actually analyze what happened each game, and how you can actually prevent it happening to you, and hopefully gather real analysis on the games from other players!

Game One

+ Show Spoiler +
July opens speedling expand while MC opens with a 4 gate. His 4 gate is ingenious however because he cuts the first wave of units that you would make with a 4 gate to throw down an expansion. This delays his 4 gate for a small amount of time but he has the benefit of two gases and the mind game with his opponent. MC continues to cut probes as if doing a normal 2 gas 4 warp gate and then cancels his expo at the last second, gets one more round of units and rolls July


How it could have been different

+ Show Spoiler +
First, had July scouted it, he would have been much better off. July never sacked an overlord in to see what protoss' production was, to his credit, this was the first time this has really been done and Zergs are not used to seeing it. MC won the scouting war because of the originality of the build, in the future it would most likely be scouted.

July did not begin making roaches until the 4 warp gate was half way across the map, and against a 2 gas 4 warp gate, since the push comes 2 minutes later than a 1 gas 4 warp gate, you need to use that extra time to pump roaches. Had July sacked an Overlord at the standard time and had 2 more rounds of production, he would have had 16 extra roaches and been able to easily hold MCs rush and win out in the macro game.


Why it's not imba

+ Show Spoiler +
Sentries were not the main factor in winning this game, the sentries were just there to convince the 3 gate expand. Had July seen what MC was doing he could have easily won.


Game Two

+ Show Spoiler +
July opens speedling expand while MC opens 1 gate expand. This means that protoss gets his expo down before Zerg, which any player knows is not a good situation. At this point July has to choose between one base all inning and expanding at a disadvantaged position, he chooses the latter. MC is already far ahead as he did an extremely risky opening and July let it fly. Both players then macro up, it is a two basing protoss vs. a two basing Zerg and MC throws down a 5th and 6th gateway and begins to cut probes shortly thereafter. July then RUSHES hydralisks before even beginning roach burrow or speed. July then scouts a 6 gate and begins pumping roaches immediately, making his investment in the hydralisks worthless and his roach upgrades very delayed for no payoff. MC then attacks at the perfect timing before roach burrow is finished and the third base is finishing and easily takes the win.


How it could have been different

+ Show Spoiler +
July rushed for hydralisks, delaying his roach burrow and speed too much. He also scouts the 6 gate too late to begin pumping roaches optimally. You'll notice the moment he scouts the 6 gate 11 roaches are produced and hydra range is canceled, this makes it clear that July is simply reacting as best as he can to a rush he didn't know was coming. Had July done the much more standard roach burrow timing to secure a third base, MCs lack of an observer would have meant a free infinite delay of MCs push, long enough for hydras to come in and easily take the game.


Why it's not Imba

+ Show Spoiler +
The only thing FF did in game 2 was keep the roaches from kiting the 4 zealots of MC, if all of those sentries were other units, July would have still been rolled because of his mediocre roach timing against a perfect 6 wg timing.


Game 3

+ Show Spoiler +
July opens speedling yet again and MC yet again gets a huge early advantage by getting an unpunished fast expand. MC takes back the economic advantage with an extremely fast third before lair, this allows MC's stargate to inflict some good damage before backing off. July then gets very fast hydralisks yet again, but MC, not expecting overlord drop to be upgraded, builds more cannons at the front and keeps his units there while July is able to Hydralisk drop into the main to secure a win before any colossus are out to deal with Hydras effectively.


How it could have been different

+ Show Spoiler +
MC did a risky opener for not playing the colossus standard. MC did not give July a reason not to go pure hydra (i.e. colossus, storm, sometimes chargelots) and so July was able to win with it.


Why it's not Imba

+ Show Spoiler +
MC let him go pure hydra and deserved to lose against it. Without a timing attack before hydras are out or a high tech unit, hydras will be dominant.


Game 4

+ Show Spoiler +
July opens speedling while MC rushes for dark templar (he states in the interview afterwards that he had his practice partners preemptively get detection, indicating that this was not designed to win or be an all in). July is denied his overlord scout and most likely assumes a three warp gate expand. (Notice that this game July gets some preemptive roaches in case another fake expo 4 gate is coming). July sees the darks coming and immediately begins an evo chamber. July loses several roaches and a queen while MC loses nothing. MC begins blink and +1 attack while July takes a third, staying relatively even in economy with MC. July begins his hydra den a little bit later than what seems to be his standard based on the other games, but he does get his spire extremely quickly for a player not going mutaling. July frantically begins roach burrow and pumping roaches when he sees the high gateway unit count from MC. July engages blink +1 stalkers with pure - no burrow - roaches as his spire completes. July simply doesn't have enough to beat the timing push and gg's


How it could have been different

+ Show Spoiler +
July could have easily taken this game as well but he seems to have a real problem with scouting his opponent. First he gets hydras and a spire, neither of which even come into play. Second, the counter to a +1 blink stalker build, similar to what Nazgul did against Idra, is either a lot of hydra's or Burrow roaches with equal upgrades, neither of which July had. Had July gotten faster hydras or committed more to roaches with burrow and tunneling claws he could have won, but instead teched in 2 useless directions against a well refined timing push that requires a very particular response.


Why it's not Imba

+ Show Spoiler +
The FF that match stopped about 4 roaches from coming down the ramp and gave MC in total about 10 roaches. MC would have EASILY won without the sentries, the loss was purely July's fault for not reacting to his opponent. MCs build should also be given credit, as opening DT is a very cool way to do the blink stalker push without delaying it too much


Game 5

+ Show Spoiler +
July speedling expands while MC forge fast expands without any counter pressure, this does put MC off to a starting advantage. July takes a risk though and gets a very fast third before lair. July is super droning, and looks to be off to a great start. MC again goes for the 6 gate play while again July rushes for Hydralisks instead of roach burrow. July begins roach hydra production but has not begun the critical hydra range upgrade yet. MC begins blink and +2 weapons. Hydralisks never get the plus range upgrade and MC slowly wins with upgraded wg units against severely under upgraded roach hydra. In the end it was MC with +3 weapon gateway units against +1 hydras off creep without range.


How it could have been different

+ Show Spoiler +
I think that July felt very pressured that round, MC's aggressive army movement kept bating July's army off of creep and messed with July's mindset of upgrading and droning. MC made it look, through his superb army movement, like a 2 base all in was coming when really he had macro'd up and grabbed a third. Had July played a safer game and stayed on top of upgrades he would have easily won, but he really looked to be on tilt and unfocused.


Why it's not Imba

+ Show Spoiler +
Again MC could have won without sentries or FF. Not to mention because July was engaging off creep without range, the hydras lack of speed was very easy to abuse. July simply was playing sloppy this last game and had he upgraded better he would have been easily able to win since MC never got colossus out.


To sum up (TL;DR)

July made some very big mistakes, he didn't scout properly and teched too quickly (or not quickly enough) against builds that require very refined, precise timing to beat. His loss had little to nothing to do with FF or any other protoss goodness, but was purely based on how unrefined his play was. July knew the composition he wanted to have, but did not know how to get there.

Also, what should be learned from this series are
For Protoss: some very potent Protoss timings and how to do standard builds in interesting ways

For Zerg: The importance of scouting and tech timings based upon that scouting.
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
March 20 2011 06:49 GMT
#2
Haven't read all of it yet, but what exactly are your credentials? You should probably post that.
ibreakurface
Profile Joined June 2010
United States664 Posts
March 20 2011 06:51 GMT
#3
Oh god lock this.

User was warned for this post
:) I play zerg. FOX AND KT ROLSTER COASTER FAN! Because I love everyone. Except bisu.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
March 20 2011 06:53 GMT
#4
Thanks for the analysis, I'm sad July kept going for Hydras. I really wonder if his decision making was best, like in Game 2. Idk how far the Hydra upgrade was, but I don't get why he made un-upgraded Roaches when he already had Hydra tech? And in Game 5 his Hydras were sitting around off creep. So painful to watch.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-20 06:54:27
March 20 2011 06:53 GMT
#5
I'm a 2700 masters random, really shouldn't matter too much for game analysis though. And ibreak, you should probably read it before you want it locked, it is discussion of the strategies used, there is no whining at all.
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
Chaos
Profile Joined July 2009
United States772 Posts
March 20 2011 06:55 GMT
#6
This is actually a pretty nice thread. I definitely agree a lot of the games were decided by nice builds from MC and poor reactions by July.
FruitMarket
Sworn
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada920 Posts
March 20 2011 06:55 GMT
#7
On March 20 2011 15:51 ibreakurface wrote:
Oh god lock this.


Please not this thread again..
"Duty is heavy as a mountain, death is light as a feather." CJ Entus Fighting! <3 Effort
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
March 20 2011 06:56 GMT
#8
You said game one was the first time for that strategy but it wasn't. I saw kiwikaki do it in the GCPL in root vs eg against idra. He opted to keep his nexus though.
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
March 20 2011 06:59 GMT
#9
On March 20 2011 15:56 Coriolis wrote:
You said game one was the first time for that strategy but it wasn't. I saw kiwikaki do it in the GCPL in root vs eg against idra. He opted to keep his nexus though.


Then it wasn't the same build was it ;P but on a more serious note, it is, if not the first time, very rare in a major global tournament anyone has faked a 3 gate expo into a 2 gas 4 gate
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
March 20 2011 07:05 GMT
#10
So wait... Your analysis is that forcefield was a non-factor in these games?

Seriously?

Are you trolling, or are you really that dense?

User was warned for this post
tenklavir
Profile Joined November 2010
Slovakia116 Posts
March 20 2011 07:05 GMT
#11
No need for it to be locked. Solid analysis and no whining.

July seemed to be playing scared to me. The loss in game 1 also seemed to have gotten to him and affected his play in the following games.
Ageless
Profile Joined January 2011
United States67 Posts
March 20 2011 07:10 GMT
#12
Sounds great. I appreciate the analysis.
I will serve forever!
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
March 20 2011 07:13 GMT
#13
On March 20 2011 16:05 MrBitter wrote:
So wait... Your analysis is that forcefield was a non-factor in these games?

Seriously?

Are you trolling, or are you really that dense?


He's saying its not imba, and while they secured MC's victory they wouldnt've been necessary for him to win because of july's mistakes
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
March 20 2011 07:15 GMT
#14
He's saying its not imba, and while they secured MC's victory they wouldnt've been necessary for him to win because of july's mistakes


Yeah, like OP says if he had Zealots/Stalkers instead of Sentries he still would have won those fights.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Jeffbelittle
Profile Joined August 2010
United States468 Posts
March 20 2011 07:15 GMT
#15
"If those units were anything but sentries...."

Okay time out now lol. I'm sorry, I commend you for trying to do a higher level analysis of replays; however, you can't say things like that.

That's basically equivalent to saying "Had those 22 speedlings he had at the 5 minute mark been 22 roaches, he would have easily won".

Hell in one of you're lines you wrote that July would have won had he had 2 more production cycles of units against a delayed 4 gate. Well, yeah? Any 4 gate can be stopped with 14 EXTRA roaches. That's just silly to say "oh well, I mean, had there been 2 cycles worth of..." and I'll stop there because I think you get my point. I'd win a hell of a lot more early game engagements if I had 14 bonus larvae too.

I honestly don't think you're giving much credit to arguably one of the top Zergs in the business. July is an incredibly seasoned player, so is MC; however, what you saw wasn't crap scouting by any means from July. It was July thinking very hard about each decision *as all pros do* and MC simply being more prepared for their games.
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
March 20 2011 07:17 GMT
#16
On March 20 2011 16:13 Active.815 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2011 16:05 MrBitter wrote:
So wait... Your analysis is that forcefield was a non-factor in these games?

Seriously?

Are you trolling, or are you really that dense?


He's saying its not imba, and while they secured MC's victory they wouldnt've been necessary for him to win because of july's mistakes


Then he wasn't watching the same games as the rest of us. The forcefield use, while impressive, was very obviously the defining factor in MC's victory.
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
March 20 2011 07:19 GMT
#17
On March 20 2011 16:05 MrBitter wrote:
So wait... Your analysis is that forcefield was a non-factor in these games?

Seriously?

Are you trolling, or are you really that dense?
While I think that he is understating the impact of FFs in the series, I think he wrote this analysis as a response to the "OMG FF OP WTF BBQ" overreaction that has been going on so much since the finals happened. I do actually agree with most of what he has to say about the ff usage, except it looked as if July might have been able to hold without the FFs in game 1.

I do agree though, that the series was defined by super crisp builds from MC with less-than-stellar responses from July. I thought he got a bit unlucky with his OL missing the dark shrine in game 4, and handled the DTs pretty well, but then just followed it up poorly. It did often seem like he was teching in different directions simultaneously and just ended up with not enough units to combat MC's near-perfectly macroed armies.
Tyrannon
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany113 Posts
March 20 2011 07:23 GMT
#18
Yes these situations were bad for Zerg, but i believe that Toss can make Zerg to accept these situations. No chance to not get in these bad situations.
tw!tch
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States563 Posts
March 20 2011 07:27 GMT
#19
July never sacked an overlord in to see what protoss' production was, to his credit, this was the first time this has really been done and Zergs are not used to seeing it.


I've seen it. T_T I don't know if you can say "this was the first time this has really been done"
Mojar
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia185 Posts
March 20 2011 07:28 GMT
#20
The fact that you think that sentries didnt win these games proves you have no clue. Sentries dominated the finals far and away, the late 4gate push would of been crushed by july without sentries and mc would of been dead. The fact that you think otherwise is just sad and you really dont have an understanding of the game at all.
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