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A Second Look at Zerg Openings

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-09 22:53:20
March 18 2011 19:14 GMT
#1

(Note: This thread is only for discussing non-expanding builds. FE is always more economical if it can be executed without safety or hatch-blocking concerns.)


A Second Look at Zerg Openings


I'm sure many of you remember my previous threads testing different Zerg opening builds and analyzing the 11overpool 18hatch in particular. Those threads I believe did a lot of good work, but at the time we were all pretty much groping in the dark. It was difficult for people to see the forest for the trees and actually apply the data meaningfully. Eventually I accepted the criticisms of a vocal minority and abandoned my efforts.

However, after recieving quite a bit of positive and curious feedback from people on battlenet, streams, and forums, I have decided to once again turn my attention to an analysis of Zerg openings. With each attempt, I have learned a little more and refined the process and the data to be more meaningful. I have been asked several times given this data why the pros choose the openings they do. I always assumed that the pros remember what worked in broodwar. Back then, delaying spawning pool production would always result in increased economy. However, with the introduction of queens and the spawn larvae mechanic, is this still the best decision? At what timing and ordering of production can we maximize both mineral and larvae production in a way that is viable strategically? This is the question I have been attempting to answer.

In order to prevent any confusion regarding gas timings, I decided to incorporate gas into every build order. I used the fairly standard ZvZ opening, 14gas/14pool in order to have a set time for gas. Therefore, every build gets an extractor at 1:40 and continues to mine gas throughout the test. I recognize that in most situations, getting gas this quickly is not necessary, but I did this primarily to decrease some of the bickering that was previously present regarding safety and viability, and to negate the argument that somehow gas timings would affect one build to a significant degree relative to another. After incorporating gas into each build, I came up with identical ordering of results as before, hopefully negating such arguments.

Data:
(Note: DET stands for double extractor trick.)

[image loading]
(Excel Spreadsheet Stats)

[image loading]
(Typical 1Base Larve Production Rate)


What does it all mean?

Note that the build which mined the most total resources, 14pool, also resulted in the fewest final drones. The build with the worst mining rate, 10pool, resulted in the highest total larvae count. There is a clear inverse relationship between minerals mined and larvae produced in the short run. (Please do not confuse this with minerals OWNED... We are NOT talking about spending or keeping resources when we say minerals mined.) This is common sense when you consider that any initial investment will sacrifice in the short run for gains in the long run. It is clear that as Zerg players, we are faced with a constant decision of trade-off between resource production and larvae production.

From watching the pro-Zergs play, it appears they tend to favor more early resources instead of more early larvae, whether knowingly or unknowingly. Are they correct in this assessment? Won't greater larvae production eventually result in the greater economy in the long run? These are very complicated questions with many variables and unknown factors, but if we ever hope to answer them, we have to start somewhere.

For some, this data will be a bit confusing, therefore I have offered a straightforward interpretation of the data and what it potentially means.


1) Which pool-first build gives the most larvae?

[image loading]
(Graph of Differences in Drones Produced with 14Pool as a baseline)

This is difficult to determine using specific moments in time, because the spawn larvae mechanic is constantly fluctuating larvae rates. In order to reach an estimate of which build yields the most total larvae, we must analyze a simple moving average (SMA) of the differences in drones produced for each build. That data can be seen here:

[image loading]
(Simple Moving Average of difference in drones produced with 14Pool as a baseline)

Therefore, we can see that the 11overpool build will yield the highest average larvae counts of any other pool-first build tested. Eventually larvae production will stabilize for every build, and additional larvae production will only be possible with the addition of hatcheries. But unlike resource count, the faster pool builds will have a permanent larvae advantage for the duration of the game without taking into account expansion timings.


2) Which pool-first build gives the most resources?

[image loading]
(Graph of Differences in Minerals Mined with 10Pool as a baseline)

Typically, the longer you delay your production of a spawning pool, the faster you will be able to gather minerals, but only in the short run! Note from the graphs that the mineral advantage of the 14 pool begins to decline at the 4:20 mark. If you look at the other graph, you will see this is the exact moment when the faster pool builds catch up and surpass in drone count. Therefore, once you pass the 4:20 mark, the mineral advantage begins to slowly decline and become overtaken by the faster pool builds due to their faster rate of drone production. Which build will yield greatest long-run economy is complicated by expansion timings and perhaps can be covered again later.


3) Which builds should we not use?

The following builds should be avoided: 10pool, 12pool-DET, and 12overpool-DET.

The 10pool and 12pool-DET should generally NOT be used because they do not produce sufficient additional larvae to justify their reduced resource count compared with the 11overpool. Notice that the 11overpool, 10pool, and 12pool-DET builds all end up with very similar larvae counts. However, the 11overpool build can give more than 100 extra minerals in comparison, and is therefore the preferred option. Likewise, the 12overpool-DET build should generally NOT be used. It gives you up to 35 minerals more than the 11overpool, but results in up to 2 fewer larvae, which is not a good trade-off.

4) Which builds should we use?

The build you should use is of course dependent upon the map, matchup, and your goal or play style. Here are some factors to consider:

In ZvZ, assuming you aren't quickly expanding, I think 11overpool is clearly best. An increased larvae count is a significant advantage in such an aggressive matchup. The extra minerals of the later pool builds generally aren't needed in this matchup if you are playing pool first, since you will typically not be fast-expanding, and you will be gathering more than enough in order to constantly produce lings and banelings. Getting an earlier pool will also give you the flexibility of going all-in if you scout a player going hatch-first against you, and also give you greater safety in defending against 6/7pool cheese. Due to all these factors, I would recommend 11overpool with gas at 1:40 instead of the more common 14gas/14pool opening in ZvZ.

In ZvP I would lean towards the 14pool build, because it is fairly common to expand at some point in the 20's supply, and also to get a roach warren and/or spines, all of which require a higher mineral count advantage as opposed to larvae.

In ZvT I almost always favor opening hatch first, but if you are going for an aggressive baneling bust or roach rush, 11overpool should always be best.

5)



Real-world application and comparison

In order to test my theory of the relative advantages of 11overpool vs 14pool in speedling/baneling builds, I set up an experiment. I played repeated tests according to the following general guidelines:

@1:40 - Geyser
@16 drones - pump 100% zerglings/overlords
@100 gas - Metabolic Boost
@50-100 gas - Baneling Nest
Continue pumping speedlings and spending 100% of remaining gas on banelings

In attempting to maximize the use of the 11overpool's larvae count while putting all available resources to their best use, I believe I have developed perhaps the most efficient baneling build possible for Zerg. I am fairly confident that no other build can produce a greater amount of banelings and speedlings in a similar timeframe, but I am open to any challengers.


In adapting this build to a fast baneling bust, it also surpassed the current Liquipedia entry for baneling rush, which is very similar but has some small obvious errors in the ordering and timing.

Best Results @ 6:00:

14Pool
15 drones, 27.04 Speedlings, 7 banelings, 5 overlords

11Overpool - encRoach ZvZ build
15 drones, 33.42 Speedlings, 7 banelings, 5 overlords


Build Orders for encRoach Baneling Openings:
+ Show Spoiler +

ZvZ, Speedling heavy or most aggressive:
10 Extractor Trick
11 Overlord
11 Spawning Pool
11 Geyser (immediately after drone)
15 Queen
17 Overlord
@100 gas - Speed, remove 1 worker from gas
18+ Mass speedlings
21 Overlord
@75 gas - Baneling nest
26 Overlord
-Continue pumping speedlings and spend 100% of gas on banelings.

ZvT, baneling heavy, or fastest bust, 5:20 target:
Same as above, EXCEPT:
@100 gas, do not remove worker from gas
@50 gas, baneling nest
Cut overlord at 26



Replays:
[image loading]

This test confirmed that in ZvZ or a ZvT baneling bust, there is a slight advantage to going 11overpool when compared to 14pool due to the larvae advantage. This of course is a subjective assessment depending upon a players style and average expansion timing. As was expected, there were more minerals left unspent by the 14pool build. Therefore, with a differing build, it would be possible to divert minerals into gas for more banelings. I will not attempt to compare the relative worth of a baneling to speedlings here since that is a highly subjective and situational assessment. However, it must be noted that this added flexibility of additional banelings must be contrasted with the 11overpool's flexibility of creating a higher number of either drones or speedlings if your opponent goes for play which negates banelings such as roach openings.


A look at the in-base hatch

The in-base macro hatch is an interesting concept. It is difficult to say how many situations exist where you would prefer a second hatchery in your main as opposed to at a natural expansion, but let's not suppose they do not exist. How efficient would such a build be?

I conducted two tests. The first test includes gas at the 1:40 mark to provide a fair comparison with the other builds. In the second test, I eliminated gas altogether in order to test maximum drone count. What I found was very interesting, but it must be noted they they underscore the production capacity of such builds. 6:00 was too short a time to compare the power of double hatch/double queen to single.

InBase w/gas-
3160 Minerals Mined, 37.82 Drones

InBase wo/gas-
3600 Minerals Mined, 41.71 Drones

11Overpool w/gas-
3154 Minerals Mined, 35.24 Drones


Both of the in-base hatch builds surpassed the pool-first builds in workers, and were either better or comparable in minerals. At first glance it would appear that even an in-base hatch is always better than pool first, but we must consider other factors before jumping to such a conclusion. The in-base hatch builds were only so efficient because they continually produced drones and thus were able to actually take advantage of nearly all the additional production capacity. In a real-game, this would typically not be possible due to the necessity of acquiring an army and upgrades, therefore leaving many larvae incapable of being spent at all. I decided to dig a little deeper to determine when, if ever, an in-base hatch was the best option.

Obviously the sole advantage to an in-base hatch as opposed to an expansion is the greater safety afforded by the building location/terrain. Clearly this safety is an asset, since saturating quickly is both what this build is capable of and requires in order to put its high production capacity to actual use. I envision such a build being most useful on maps such as Backwater Gulch, where your natural + main are practically impossible to defend against a 4gate. So here is the general theme such a build would take:

1) Take advantage of terrain to safely and quickly saturate your main. This can most easily be accomplished by utilizing the two fast queens to block your ramp and the proxy hatch creep near the ramp for spine crawlers.
2) Take advantage of this quickly saturated main and very high production capacity to pump tons of speedlings for map control or aggression.
3) Take advantage of this map control in order to expand and once again quickly saturate you natural. Repeat.


Here is a test of maximum production capacity of zerglings beyond the six minute mark to illustrate the points at which each build has a comparable production advantage. It could be suggested that the in-base hatch is to vulnerable to a more standard build before the 6:00 mark, but let's not forget that we can very quickly get two queens out to block the ramp, and also remember the defender's advantage as far as distance travel is concerned.

[image loading]

I took this general strategy to the master ladder for a few games for fun and testing and had surprisingly good success with it. Of course there are always weaknesses to any build, and much of the execution has to be ironed out, but it is clearly something for us to consider seriously.

Replays:

EDIT: ZvZ replay removed at player request.
[image loading]
[image loading]


I'm not sure how much we can draw from the replays. Obviously the wins don't say too much, considering my opponents played imperfectly, but I find the production capacity at least to be pretty amazing, and the possibilities in ZvZ given the fast double-queen ramp block to be potentially very effective in trying to increase saturation in a matchup that has become so hyper-aggressive. I will continue experimenting with the in-base hatch in the few situations where it could perhaps be warranted.


Summary, tl;dr

Note, these are very simplistic generalizations of the conclusions I reached for people who don't want to read through all the data:

Never 10 Pool, and never double-extractor trick.
Start going 11Overpool for speedling/baneling play in ZvZ or cheese ZvT.
Keep going 14 Pool in ZvP.
Consider an in-base 14 hatch on maps with a difficult to defend natural in ZvZ or ZvP, using queens to block the ramp and spines to defend while you quickly saturate and use high production capacity for mass speedling map control.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
CapnAmerica
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States508 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 20:06:32
March 18 2011 20:04 GMT
#2
But the reason you do something like 10 pool is for the earlier first round of Zerglings for "cheese" type openers, and you should never double extractor trick because it would require 100 saved up minerals, which we already knew.

The main reason to go early pool is for the TIME at which the Zerglings pop, and as a result we adjust gas timings ourselves to get speed most optimally while continuing ling or drone production.

All in all, no new information other than that 11overpool is still a good middle of the road opening BO.

edit: I would say that the hatchery timing (in-base) is most applicable to team games for timing pushes, but in 1v1 there are so many variables that can delay the very delicate ZvZ ling timing that it becomes less than desirable. In ZvP on just about any map I would suggest that early ling aggression is stronger than an early hatch for raw production, although as the game drags on the extra hatcheries DO really help.
After all this time, I still haven't figured out the correlation between sexual orientation and beating an unprepared opponent. Are homosexuals the next koreans? Many players seem to think it's an unfair advantage. - pandaburn
Sega92
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States467 Posts
March 18 2011 20:05 GMT
#3
lots of info to go over...very nice read and who would've thought the differences to be so large.

good job OP
Schnullerbacke13
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1199 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 20:26:34
March 18 2011 20:06 GMT
#4
Well done research as your previous investigation. Congrats.
BTW: I am playing in base hatch for some time and it combines economic advantage with safety. Also the larva richness allows to cover drone losses extremely quickly in early .. midgame. You can pump 3 queens at once (after taking nat) in case of VR or phoenix. You are not screwed when loosing nat to early 1 base all-in, because you can keep up ling production.
I did not do the numbers, however my winrate is substantly higher with in-base hatch first builds (fewer losses to cheese and early harrass).

15 hatch in base,
15 gas (remove 1..2 drones after getting 100 gas)
14 pool
16 ovie (except when doing 18 hatch)
18..24 hatch at nat (opt to cancel it in case of very early pushes)
21 is half the truth
Elcheris
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada23 Posts
March 18 2011 20:14 GMT
#5
I think I understood most of this. Im going to try this out a bit in some practice games and see how it works out, thanks for the extremley in depth post!
TheButtonmen
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada1401 Posts
March 18 2011 20:20 GMT
#6
Thanks for this, it was quite an interesting read.
Doormat
Profile Joined May 2010
United States12 Posts
March 18 2011 20:32 GMT
#7
I think you should be a bit more clear on what you are measuring and how you are measuring it. I'm assuming these are simulated measurements assuming you just pump pure drones until some time?

If so, I'd be curious how these builds fare against various early pressure builds. It stands to reason that having more drones earlier is beneficial for facing early pressure when you must spend larvae and resources on lings and not drones.

Take a 2 rax all-in as an example, is an 11 overpool going to be able to drone in the way you simulated and be safe? You must recognize that the earlier pool + queen means that the time afterwords must be spend droning to "catch up" with the later pools.
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
March 18 2011 20:33 GMT
#8
Great info JD, good to see it in graphs and tables.

I'd been experimenting with a 14 Hatch in-base against Protoss, but it's hard to quantify its benefits except that it's a whole lot easier to defend than an expansion. The problem is it makes most P's think you are massing Lings to all-in and they go extremely heavy on Zealot/Sentry.

Haven't tried it in ZvZ though, mostly because I just hate Ling/Bane wars.
carrion
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom87 Posts
March 18 2011 20:56 GMT
#9
Great info with lots of objective thought. Will start 11 overpooling and see how it goes.
polyrhythmic
Profile Joined August 2010
20 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 21:42:46
March 18 2011 21:04 GMT
#10
much better than your first attempt at this research. obviously well planned and detailed, and clearly a lot more effort went into making this information not only accurate but readable and easy to understand. well done OP.

Take a 2 rax all-in as an example, is an 11 overpool going to be able to drone in the way you simulated and be safe? You must recognize that the earlier pool + queen means that the time afterwords must be spend droning to "catch up" with the later pools.


in the tl;dr section he suggests the 11overpool for ZvT cheese only, such as baneling or roach allin. under normal circumstances he recommends hatch first.
FrostedMiniWeet
Profile Joined July 2009
United States636 Posts
March 18 2011 21:14 GMT
#11
You need to keep in mind that just because a build may favor minerals over larva, doesn't make it a bad build, as in the mineral favoring builds you can do things like get a gas faster, or a roach warren faster, since you have extra minerals. All that really matters is that you have just enough money to spend all your larva, whatever your build may be.
uobradbury
Profile Joined December 2010
United States45 Posts
March 19 2011 01:29 GMT
#12
well done op. lots of great information throughtout the post. i am really curious about the in base hatch. i remember back in the day seeing players like sen experiment with this with little luck but i like the idea of getting quick saturation early and have the capability to masd produce units at critical moments. I will play some practice games doing this and hopefully i have some success because im getting pretty bored of the standards
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
March 19 2011 03:09 GMT
#13
On March 19 2011 10:29 uobradbury wrote:
well done op. lots of great information throughtout the post. i am really curious about the in base hatch. i remember back in the day seeing players like sen experiment with this with little luck but i like the idea of getting quick saturation early and have the capability to masd produce units at critical moments. I will play some practice games doing this and hopefully i have some success because im getting pretty bored of the standards


Thanks, I appreciate it. I've also become fairly intrigued by this possibility of in-base hatch. I keep going back to that second replay where the toss goes a standard 3gate-expand and just gets so completely swamped by speedlings it wasn't even close. On maps where a natural is very difficult to defend, I've had a ton of success with this so far. For the first time I feel comfortable having no maps vetoed at all so I can keep testing this strategy.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
Mofisto
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom585 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 12:40:53
March 19 2011 12:40 GMT
#14
Good job mate, you've clearly put a lot of effort into this. Ill be adding it to my thread soon mate.
"Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you."
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
March 19 2011 14:53 GMT
#15
Nice work, I've been a little harsh before ('the vocal minority') because I found your previous thread lacking in accuracy but this one is well represented.

The conclusions are basically the same as before that 14 pool is economically better but 11 overpool has more larvae (which might catch up the economy later but is unlikely to).
It would be nice to link or put the build orders in a spoiler again as I'm a bit unsure how many lings you produce when the pool pops.
When I tried 11 overpool with gas (around 17 pop) and 2 sets of lings upon completion of the pool i never had enough minerals to get a 2nd queen directly AND a hatchery. That mitigated the entire advantage of the fast pool and means the build wasn't good in my opinion (for ZvP that is).

If its possible to do 11 overpool with 4 (or 2) lings when the pool completes and no delay on your 2nd queen with reasonably fast gas it could be a great build for ZvP on some maps.
The reason would be that earlier lings mean you can chase away their probe earlier and thus get your hatch down earlier and they might be forced to get their zealot earlier then they want (zealot before 2nd gas or possibly even being forced to chrono it).

So overall great post, good to see your stance about the quality of the build overall has changed. For me the only thing missing is the exact build orders for 11 overpool specifically as that isn't mainstream really.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States9681 Posts
March 19 2011 15:25 GMT
#16
Wow, great great great great work. You have so many good contributions to this community. Good job and thank you! The quality of your post is outstanding and impressive.

Thanks for the summary, though I read all of it too ^_^

I'm glad that the in-base hatch has proved to be somewhat viable. It's always been a fun idea to me.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
DarKcS
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1237 Posts
March 19 2011 15:27 GMT
#17
I've been doing in-base hatch in all my ZvZs and you can mass speedlings before they start to saturate their expo if they decide to in which case you can simply mass more speedlings, ling peel banes and eventually win. At least that's how most of my games turned out. Even when I lost 6-8 lings due to slow reaction, I had plenty more to run in.
Die tomorrow - Live today
enykie
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany64 Posts
March 19 2011 16:42 GMT
#18
big up, for your investigations! Very interessting and nice to read, your thread should be sticky, one of the best threads on tl

Cheers
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 20:32:59
March 19 2011 17:08 GMT
#19
I tested the 11 overpool build a bit more with ZvP in mind because I think the build has some potential there.

Hatch blocking is so extremely common in ZvP, especially on 2 player maps like xel naga, that the earlier queen and lings an earlier pool provides could also allow for a faster expansion because you can unblock with natural with some lings.
In ZvP getting gas on time is also a must though as getting ling speed around the time or just after 4 gates hit is crucial.
So I tried to find if the 11 overpool build could be adjusted to fit these criteria:
- build at least 1 pair of lings immediately as the pool finishes
- you can only expand after your lings have reached your natural
- start collecting gas on time, so geyser no later then 17 pop.
- make 2 queens ASAP after pool, thus first right away and second right after the first.
- no larvae waste except perhaps to get the pool earlier.

So I tried to see if 11 overpool could fit this criteria and it just barely can't in my testing. If you get gas and 2 lings and the expo you will just be short on money to make your 2nd queen on time. Then your 2nd queen can't be made immediately after the first which is bad because it means your first queen has to inject twice and you can't start a tumor as early, also your injections won't be synchronized..

However if you go pool a little bit later, 12 pool after extractor trick, you can manage all this and actually have no larvae waste. That means you'll be able to expand faster against a probe block AND have more larvae at the cost of a few minerals (and not scouting). Overall that seems to be worth it on some maps where scouting isn't needed that much.

Build:
11 overlord, after extractor trick
12 pool
16 gas (just before pool finishes)
@ 100% pool, queen + 1 pair of lings, will go to 18/18
18 overlord
@ 100% lings, expo.
2nd queen after first
@ 100 gas, lingspeed and take drones of gas.

12 pool after extractor trick basically seems better then a normal 12 pool (slightly more minerals). Definately seems worth trying for ZvP.
DaeWang790
Profile Joined September 2010
United States74 Posts
March 19 2011 17:26 GMT
#20
Markwerf: What is your timing on your second overlord?
Also, what is the timing of your ling speed in relation to the more commonly used 14 gas / 14 pool build?
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