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[G] Stats on Fungal w/Corruption on the PTR

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
March 04 2011 18:16 GMT
#1
[image loading] [image loading]
Best friends at last?

(note, this is a very short "guide" on a specific spell combo)

So it turns out that Corruption also increases the damage taken from fungal growth (by 20%). So instead of 36, it does 44 to corrupted units, not a huge deal, but not bad.

It gets much better for fungal growth on the PTR however. There, fungal does 47 damage to armored, but if you corrupt those armored units, fungal actually does 57! And on the PTR this damage is dealt twice as fast...

And considering corruption lasts a whopping 30 seconds, that's enough time for it to boost the strength of 7.5 back to back fungals.

Number of fungals (on the PTR) to kill a Colossus: 8
Number of fungals to kill a corrupted Colossus: 7

Non-PTR Fungal DPS: 4.5
PTR Fungal DPS: 9
PTR Fungal DPS versus Armored: 11.75
with corruption: 14.25

Number of game seconds to kill a Colossus by continually fungaling it on the live server: 78 seconds

Number of game seconds to kill a corrupted Colossus by continually fungaling it on the live server: 64 seconds

Number of game seconds to kill a Colossus by continually fungaling it on the PTR server: 30 seconds

Number of game seconds to kill a corrupted Colossus by continually fungaling it on the PTR server: 24.5 seconds

On a side note, applicable to the Colossus/Void Ray combo is that You can kill a corrupted Void Ray (another armored unit) on the PTR in a mere 17.5 seconds, with continual fungals. 11.2 seconds for a Corrupted + Fungaled Stalker (3 fungals can kill the stalker if corrupted, otherwise you need 4).

In reality if you have corruptors to cast corruption you'll also be using them to kill the Void Ray and Colossus. The above timings were for fungal alone dealing the damage. It appears that Corrupted/Fungaled collies and voids being shot at by corruptors would die impressively fast.
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
ckukner
Profile Joined November 2010
Turkey54 Posts
March 04 2011 18:22 GMT
#2
Even though it becomes balanced, it is still unfair for zerg because he will need to corrupt each unit manually and fungal at the same time also injecting while protoss just needs to a move his ball.
Corruption should be a kind of AOE spell at least then protoss would even bother to spread his troops.
navy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada197 Posts
March 04 2011 18:24 GMT
#3
cool find, but will be difficult to use.
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
March 04 2011 18:26 GMT
#4
Very useful information! I'm sure this will find it's niche somewhere quite nicely
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
nekuodah
Profile Joined August 2010
England2409 Posts
March 04 2011 18:26 GMT
#5
On March 05 2011 03:22 ckukner wrote:
Even though it becomes balanced, it is still unfair for zerg because he will need to corrupt each unit manually and fungal at the same time also injecting while protoss just needs to a move his ball.
Corruption should be a kind of AOE spell at least then protoss would even bother to spread his troops.


In that case its unfair when opening pheonix that we have to individually target hydras when there are low amounts of them to lift them.... its not about difficulty to execute its about actually been stoppable.
MoreFaSho
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1427 Posts
March 04 2011 18:28 GMT
#6
Yea, not worth it. Instead of 1 corruptor which can cast 1 corruption you could almost 1 infestor which can AOE multiple units. Unless you need the corruptors or will soon transition to broodlords I can't see this making sense.
I always try to shield slam face, just to make sure it doesnt work
Kyuss420
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada36 Posts
March 04 2011 18:32 GMT
#7
On March 05 2011 03:22 ckukner wrote:
Even though it becomes balanced, it is still unfair for zerg because he will need to corrupt each unit manually and fungal at the same time also injecting while protoss just needs to a move his ball.
Corruption should be a kind of AOE spell at least then protoss would even bother to spread his troops.


it would be sick if corruption worked like that terran spell in BW, i forgot the name but it would spread t other units in its vicinity, i believe the science vessel had it.
HERP DERP
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
March 04 2011 18:34 GMT
#8
On March 05 2011 03:32 Kyuss420 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 03:22 ckukner wrote:
Even though it becomes balanced, it is still unfair for zerg because he will need to corrupt each unit manually and fungal at the same time also injecting while protoss just needs to a move his ball.
Corruption should be a kind of AOE spell at least then protoss would even bother to spread his troops.


it would be sick if corruption worked like that terran spell in BW, i forgot the name but it would spread t other units in its vicinity, i believe the science vessel had it.


Irridiate. Or is it Irridate. I could never remember how to spell it. Iridiate?
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10682 Posts
March 04 2011 18:39 GMT
#9
Wow this was a awesome find , never thought about this. Although in my own opinion I will have to say that the odds you will be able to corrupt all the colossi, and use up excess corruptions if need be, surround his units, fungal, and not make a mistake imbetween will be kind of difficult sometimes in these huge battles, but I will be trying to use this from now on, thanks for the post. 5/5 for creativity
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
FMJ
Profile Joined February 2011
United States169 Posts
March 04 2011 18:39 GMT
#10
On March 05 2011 03:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Irridiate. Or is it Irridate. I could never remember how to spell it. Iridiate?

Irradiate. From the word, "radiation".
Conrose
Profile Joined October 2010
437 Posts
March 04 2011 18:41 GMT
#11
It is something to think about. When I go Roach/Corruptor/Ling against Zeal/Stalker/Colossi, I typically toss a couple of corruptions on a few stalkers after tagging any colossi with it. With corruption + buffed FG, I can see it being useful as a means to add to Infestor contribution to ZvP... though I would probably toss it on stalkers or Immortals over Colossi since that would help my Roaches and Lings to cut through the Stalker Ball portion quicker and really pressure them into pulling back.
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
March 04 2011 18:53 GMT
#12
Irradiate.
Always smile~
Trobot
Profile Joined August 2010
United States125 Posts
March 04 2011 19:43 GMT
#13
This...is sexy. Although it doesn't count for the massive Stalker support that comes along with the Colossus, and they'd tear through your Infestors lickety-split unless your positioning were perfect. Of course, this wouldn't be used just against the Colossus. Given how long Corruption lasts, I could see swarms of Infestors decimating a Terran tank line with only 2-3 Corrupters flying around. And raining Medivacs, to boot!
Beware, for I shall correct your grammar even as I read it.
[MLG]GCA
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States90 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-04 19:52:01
March 04 2011 19:50 GMT
#14
On March 05 2011 03:22 ckukner wrote:
Even though it becomes balanced, it is still unfair for zerg because he will need to corrupt each unit manually and fungal at the same time also injecting while protoss just needs to a move his ball.
Corruption should be a kind of AOE spell at least then protoss would even bother to spread his troops.


You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Forcefields, use Blink micro and using Templar (which you should have agasint Infestors) to cast Feedback on Infestors all at the same time.

OP - Nice find, and I am very happy with this buff to Fungal. Infestors have needed to be incorporated in ZvP for a while, but didn't quite seem to justify the gas cost. I'm excited to see how this plays out.
Bleak
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Turkey3059 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-04 19:52:41
March 04 2011 19:52 GMT
#15
On March 05 2011 03:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 03:32 Kyuss420 wrote:
On March 05 2011 03:22 ckukner wrote:
Even though it becomes balanced, it is still unfair for zerg because he will need to corrupt each unit manually and fungal at the same time also injecting while protoss just needs to a move his ball.
Corruption should be a kind of AOE spell at least then protoss would even bother to spread his troops.


it would be sick if corruption worked like that terran spell in BW, i forgot the name but it would spread t other units in its vicinity, i believe the science vessel had it.


Irridiate. Or is it Irridate. I could never remember how to spell it. Iridiate?


It is spelled "Irradiate". Comes from Radiation.

This combo sounds cool. If anything we can see more neat micro tricks.
"I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance. "
TheAwesomeAll
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands1609 Posts
March 04 2011 19:53 GMT
#16
On March 05 2011 03:22 ckukner wrote:
Even though it becomes balanced, it is still unfair for zerg because he will need to corrupt each unit manually and fungal at the same time also injecting while protoss just needs to a move his ball.
Corruption should be a kind of AOE spell at least then protoss would even bother to spread his troops.

nobody said starcraft was easy
dr Helvetica <3
Let it Raine
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1245 Posts
March 04 2011 19:57 GMT
#17
this is pretty good.
Grandmaster Zerg x14. Diamond 1 LoL. MLG 50, Halo 3. Raine.
FrodaN
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
754 Posts
March 04 2011 20:01 GMT
#18
This would be an AWESOME micro maneuver! GREAT find.
DamnCats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1472 Posts
March 04 2011 20:02 GMT
#19
And with the HP buff maybe infestors wont die the instant they get in range of... anything!

Disciples of a god, that neither lives nor breathes.
Keifru
Profile Joined November 2010
United States179 Posts
March 04 2011 20:06 GMT
#20
On March 05 2011 04:50 [MLG]GCA wrote:

You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Forcefields, use Blink micro and using Templar (which you should have agasint Infestors) to cast Feedback on Infestors all at the same time.


You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Corruption, use Burrow micro and using Infestors (which you should have agasinst High Templar) to cast Fungal Growth on High Templar all at the same time.

^^ These are always fun to do. ^^

I find it nice to know that corruption works with fungal- unfortunately I think it's going to just be a 'nice trick'...the problem being you're going to be suiciding Infestors due to colossus having the same range as Infestor's cast range.
Conflict is the gadfly of thought. It stirs us to observation and memory. It instigates us to invention. It shocks us out of sheeplike passivity, and sets us at noting and contriving. - John Dewey
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
March 04 2011 20:20 GMT
#21
On March 05 2011 05:06 Keifru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 04:50 [MLG]GCA wrote:

You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Forcefields, use Blink micro and using Templar (which you should have agasint Infestors) to cast Feedback on Infestors all at the same time.


(...)using Infestors (which you should have agasinst High Templar) to cast Fungal Growth on High Templar all at the same time(...)


I think against high templars we zerg still need to learn to use neural parasite properly. There is nothing funnier (and more effective) than neural parasiting a templar and using it to feedback/storm the others.
Sadly i only ever managed to do this once in a 4v4.
Robje
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands1044 Posts
March 04 2011 20:37 GMT
#22
On March 05 2011 05:06 Keifru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 04:50 [MLG]GCA wrote:

You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Forcefields, use Blink micro and using Templar (which you should have agasint Infestors) to cast Feedback on Infestors all at the same time.


You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Corruption, use Burrow micro and using Infestors (which you should have agasinst High Templar) to cast Fungal Growth on High Templar all at the same time.

^^ These are always fun to do. ^^


Except that he never said it took no skill to do that...

Anyway, nice idea, wonder if it will ever become relevant though.
Holy shit ziek leger
swim224
Profile Joined May 2010
Botswana368 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-04 20:45:58
March 04 2011 20:42 GMT
#23
I don't get it, the OP found a micro heavy way to improve your unit's dps, and people complain that it's too hard to do This is what makes starcraft a game that requires skill, not mindless button mashing.
....unless Taeja suddenly parachutes into the studio with explosions behind him and lands on a skateboard which he jumps over the booth before jumping in. If that happened it would be so sweet it would be physically impossible for them to lose. - Haydin
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
March 04 2011 20:45 GMT
#24
Infestors definately look to be a nice addition against the stalker ball with the addition as their damage will actually add up. Roach infestor corruptor will be much better then roach hydra infestor probably because infestors do their damage much quicker in a fight and it matters less that they die to colossi.
Keifru
Profile Joined November 2010
United States179 Posts
March 04 2011 20:47 GMT
#25
On March 05 2011 05:20 Morfildur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 05:06 Keifru wrote:
On March 05 2011 04:50 [MLG]GCA wrote:

You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Forcefields, use Blink micro and using Templar (which you should have agasint Infestors) to cast Feedback on Infestors all at the same time.


(...)using Infestors (which you should have agasinst High Templar) to cast Fungal Growth on High Templar all at the same time(...)


I think against high templars we zerg still need to learn to use neural parasite properly. There is nothing funnier (and more effective) than neural parasiting a templar and using it to feedback/storm the others.
Sadly i only ever managed to do this once in a 4v4.

I say Fungal instead of Neural Parasite for 2 reasons.

1) 2 fungals will pretty much wipe a clump of HTs
2) NP has range 9, while Fungal has 11; the circle's radius being 2, giving it that extra 2.

If you can NP the HT, he can Feedback you; its just whoever can click first. Yet storm only has a 1.5 radius, so you have a .5 'safe' zone to Fungal and they can't storm in retaliation.

And when you have 3/3 broodlings, HT's being at about 5 health is as good as dead (Storm doesnt do much to broodlords as it happens...)
Conflict is the gadfly of thought. It stirs us to observation and memory. It instigates us to invention. It shocks us out of sheeplike passivity, and sets us at noting and contriving. - John Dewey
Robje
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands1044 Posts
March 04 2011 20:50 GMT
#26
On March 05 2011 05:42 swim224 wrote:
I don't get it, the OP found a micro heavy way to improve your unit's dps, and people complain that it's too hard to do This is what makes starcraft a game that requires skill, not mindless button mashing.

The problem is getting enough corrupters and infestors in your army to do this, I'd say.
Holy shit ziek leger
rycho
Profile Joined July 2010
United States360 Posts
March 04 2011 20:56 GMT
#27
On March 05 2011 03:22 ckukner wrote:
Even though it becomes balanced, it is still unfair for zerg because he will need to corrupt each unit manually and fungal at the same time also injecting while protoss just needs to a move his ball.
Corruption should be a kind of AOE spell at least then protoss would even bother to spread his troops.


rofl yeah man, zerg have it way harder than protoss when it comes to unit control
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
March 04 2011 21:08 GMT
#28
The problem with corruption is that there is no skill required to use it. Hear me out here: there is no skill required to make the decision about what to do with your corruptors. You always want to corrupt the highest-value units that you will be firing on in the enemy ball. This, in practice, means colossi first, then immortals or vr, then stalkers. This doesn't require any skill to do; it just requires APM.

Thus, corruption is just an APM sink. It is something that involves no actual tactical decision-making; it's just something you do with any extra APM you have. Trouble is, there are usually more pressing things for you to do with that APM: burrow roaches under forcefields, transfuse things (one transfuse heals more hp than one corruption deals), move skirmish groups of lings around, neural things, fungal things, poop creep, inject, macro, drop baneling bombs, manage muta harass forces, etc. Once in a while -- corruptors vs. colossi with nothing else involved -- corruption is the best use of that APM. Usually it's not.
Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
March 04 2011 21:12 GMT
#29
On March 05 2011 05:47 Keifru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 05:20 Morfildur wrote:
On March 05 2011 05:06 Keifru wrote:
On March 05 2011 04:50 [MLG]GCA wrote:

You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Forcefields, use Blink micro and using Templar (which you should have agasint Infestors) to cast Feedback on Infestors all at the same time.


(...)using Infestors (which you should have agasinst High Templar) to cast Fungal Growth on High Templar all at the same time(...)


I think against high templars we zerg still need to learn to use neural parasite properly. There is nothing funnier (and more effective) than neural parasiting a templar and using it to feedback/storm the others.
Sadly i only ever managed to do this once in a 4v4.

I say Fungal instead of Neural Parasite for 2 reasons.

1) 2 fungals will pretty much wipe a clump of HTs
2) NP has range 9, while Fungal has 11; the circle's radius being 2, giving it that extra 2.

If you can NP the HT, he can Feedback you; its just whoever can click first. Yet storm only has a 1.5 radius, so you have a .5 'safe' zone to Fungal and they can't storm in retaliation.

And when you have 3/3 broodlings, HT's being at about 5 health is as good as dead (Storm doesnt do much to broodlords as it happens...)



Yes, and don't forget that with Fungal being a projectile its "maximum possible" range can be even higher if the target is moving towards the infestor at the time he fires the fungal, increasing the range by a factor based on the speed of the approachings units.

So while potentially easy to dodge by your opponent (if he is paying attention!) the maximum range of a fungal is probably around 11 - 15 when used on targets moving directly towards the infestor. The most extreme example would be the speedy phoenix! Tests would have to be done, but if you spotted incoming phoenix on a predictable trajectory, the infestor could "release" the projectile from something crazy like range 18 and still hit the phoenix. haha, theory craft, gotta love it...
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-04 21:20:42
March 04 2011 21:12 GMT
#30
It sounds like it could be useful for zerg to use corruption + multiple fungals on a big protoss army before moving in to attack.

The problem is that corruption has a range of 6, which requires corruptors to move within range of voids & stalkers in order to cast corruption. Do you want to take damage and/or lose corruptors in order to get off a few corruptions?

The best corruption targets are the big units with lots of hp: voids & colossus. These are also the units that can shrug off fungals the best.

HOWEVER

I can definitely see 2-3 full energy infestors doing quite a bit of FG damage on a maxed protoss army; after all, stalkers, void rays, and colossus are ALL armored. For example, 3 infestors with at least 150 energy is enough for 6 FGs, that can potentially do tons of damage; using corruption first sounds difficult, but possibly doable.
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
Keifru
Profile Joined November 2010
United States179 Posts
March 04 2011 21:21 GMT
#31
On March 05 2011 06:12 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 05:47 Keifru wrote:
On March 05 2011 05:20 Morfildur wrote:
On March 05 2011 05:06 Keifru wrote:
On March 05 2011 04:50 [MLG]GCA wrote:

You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Forcefields, use Blink micro and using Templar (which you should have agasint Infestors) to cast Feedback on Infestors all at the same time.


(...)using Infestors (which you should have agasinst High Templar) to cast Fungal Growth on High Templar all at the same time(...)


I think against high templars we zerg still need to learn to use neural parasite properly. There is nothing funnier (and more effective) than neural parasiting a templar and using it to feedback/storm the others.
Sadly i only ever managed to do this once in a 4v4.

I say Fungal instead of Neural Parasite for 2 reasons.

1) 2 fungals will pretty much wipe a clump of HTs
2) NP has range 9, while Fungal has 11; the circle's radius being 2, giving it that extra 2.

If you can NP the HT, he can Feedback you; its just whoever can click first. Yet storm only has a 1.5 radius, so you have a .5 'safe' zone to Fungal and they can't storm in retaliation.

And when you have 3/3 broodlings, HT's being at about 5 health is as good as dead (Storm doesnt do much to broodlords as it happens...)



Yes, and don't forget that with Fungal being a projectile its "maximum possible" range can be even higher if the target is moving towards the infestor at the time he fires the fungal, increasing the range by a factor based on the speed of the approachings units.

So while potentially easy to dodge by your opponent (if he is paying attention!) the maximum range of a fungal is probably around 11 - 15 when used on targets moving directly towards the infestor. The most extreme example would be the speedy phoenix! Tests would have to be done, but if you spotted incoming phoenix on a predictable trajectory, the infestor could "release" the projectile from something crazy like range 18 and still hit the phoenix. haha, theory craft, gotta love it...

You are assuming the entire ball is just a-moving towards a position- which you must guess- without an observer checking ahead. However, it is not possible to do this maneuver while engaging a deathball, as they won't be moving- stationary they can pop the infestor (maybe before it gets it off- I'd peg it as 25/75 the infestor lives vs dies). You need...what, 8 chain'd fungals to make this sacrifice worth it (more than that because not all of them will be stuck in the fungal, and straggling stalkers can sit in front to prevent chaining of fungals- attempt to engage forward stalkers and you come inside range of colossus, etc.)
Hitting a phoenix with Fungal I would peg as more of a luck shot than skill shot, considering their speed. . .
Conflict is the gadfly of thought. It stirs us to observation and memory. It instigates us to invention. It shocks us out of sheeplike passivity, and sets us at noting and contriving. - John Dewey
Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
March 04 2011 21:22 GMT
#32
On March 05 2011 06:12 BlasiuS wrote:
The problem is that corruption has a range of 6, which requires corruptors to move within range of voids & stalkers in order to cast corruption. Do you want to take damage and/or lose corruptors in order to get off a few corruptions?


From my experience, and some of the pro replays I've been watching lately (Idra vs Squirtle) I think its pretty common to send your corruptors in a little bit ahead of the rest of your army anyway. Colossus kills your ground army much faster than stalkers/voids can kill Corruptors, so this seems to makes sense most of the time.

Idra seems to favor sending in the corruptors first, casting corruption (he actually uses it!), and then following that up with the rest of his army. Perhaps things change depending on the Colossus/Void/Stalker ratio though, and I'm sure there are situations where you want your entire army engaging at the same time.
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
March 04 2011 21:33 GMT
#33
On March 05 2011 06:21 Keifru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 06:12 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
On March 05 2011 05:47 Keifru wrote:
On March 05 2011 05:20 Morfildur wrote:
On March 05 2011 05:06 Keifru wrote:
On March 05 2011 04:50 [MLG]GCA wrote:

You're right, there is no skill involved in trying to cast Forcefields, use Blink micro and using Templar (which you should have agasint Infestors) to cast Feedback on Infestors all at the same time.


(...)using Infestors (which you should have agasinst High Templar) to cast Fungal Growth on High Templar all at the same time(...)


I think against high templars we zerg still need to learn to use neural parasite properly. There is nothing funnier (and more effective) than neural parasiting a templar and using it to feedback/storm the others.
Sadly i only ever managed to do this once in a 4v4.

I say Fungal instead of Neural Parasite for 2 reasons.

1) 2 fungals will pretty much wipe a clump of HTs
2) NP has range 9, while Fungal has 11; the circle's radius being 2, giving it that extra 2.

If you can NP the HT, he can Feedback you; its just whoever can click first. Yet storm only has a 1.5 radius, so you have a .5 'safe' zone to Fungal and they can't storm in retaliation.

And when you have 3/3 broodlings, HT's being at about 5 health is as good as dead (Storm doesnt do much to broodlords as it happens...)



Yes, and don't forget that with Fungal being a projectile its "maximum possible" range can be even higher if the target is moving towards the infestor at the time he fires the fungal, increasing the range by a factor based on the speed of the approachings units.

So while potentially easy to dodge by your opponent (if he is paying attention!) the maximum range of a fungal is probably around 11 - 15 when used on targets moving directly towards the infestor. The most extreme example would be the speedy phoenix! Tests would have to be done, but if you spotted incoming phoenix on a predictable trajectory, the infestor could "release" the projectile from something crazy like range 18 and still hit the phoenix. haha, theory craft, gotta love it...

You are assuming the entire ball is just a-moving towards a position- which you must guess- without an observer checking ahead. However, it is not possible to do this maneuver while engaging a deathball, as they won't be moving- stationary they can pop the infestor (maybe before it gets it off- I'd peg it as 25/75 the infestor lives vs dies). You need...what, 8 chain'd fungals to make this sacrifice worth it (more than that because not all of them will be stuck in the fungal, and straggling stalkers can sit in front to prevent chaining of fungals- attempt to engage forward stalkers and you come inside range of colossus, etc.)
Hitting a phoenix with Fungal I would peg as more of a luck shot than skill shot, considering their speed. . .


Forgive me if I wasn't clear, I only mean the first fungal has a longer effective range, and ONLY if your target is moving towards the infestor. Agreed, after the target stops moving, their is no range advantage. In fact, if the target is moving away, the infestor has a lower effective range.

As for your comment on "8 chained fungals", I'm not saying you are going to take on the entire Protoss army with a few corruptors and some infestors... you are also going to have your regular ground army. I never intended for fungal to be the only source of damage that you use to kill Colossus, I only used that as an isolated example to show the power of Corruption + Fungal with PTR 1.3.

Realistically Fungal + Corruption would just contribute to taking down the protoss death ball, you are also going to have corruptors shooting the colossus, roaches, baneling drops, basically whatever zerg do right now to fight it.

I was just providing some data of the DPS and the like, its up to those brave, skilled, zerg players to decide if its actually usable in a real game.
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-04 21:38:05
March 04 2011 21:36 GMT
#34
On March 05 2011 05:56 rycho wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 03:22 ckukner wrote:
Even though it becomes balanced, it is still unfair for zerg because he will need to corrupt each unit manually and fungal at the same time also injecting while protoss just needs to a move his ball.
Corruption should be a kind of AOE spell at least then protoss would even bother to spread his troops.


rofl yeah man, zerg have it way harder than protoss when it comes to unit control

army control is more difficult for zerg than protoss, though unit control is harder for toss.

controlling the group of units with zerg requires flanking and great positioning. while with protoss it's mstly making sure your units are all attacking.

individual unit control for protoss is intensely more difficult, blink micro, storm, feedback, merge, forcefield ect.

EDIT: also corruption + fungal will be by far more useful on units like stalkers, immortals, void rays due to their either shield strength (immortal) or lower hp.
Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
March 04 2011 21:51 GMT
#35
On March 05 2011 06:36 PrinceXizor wrote:
EDIT: also corruption + fungal will be by far more useful on units like stalkers, immortals, void rays due to their either shield strength (immortal) or lower hp.


Agreed corruption + fungal is great on immortals because it bypasses the hardened shield, but are you saying its more useful to corrupt + fungal stalkers than Colossus? It might vary based on the situation of course, but corruption on a Colossus can inflict a total of 70 damage, while on a Stalker it can only account for 32 damage.
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-04 22:00:44
March 04 2011 21:57 GMT
#36
On March 05 2011 06:22 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 06:12 BlasiuS wrote:
The problem is that corruption has a range of 6, which requires corruptors to move within range of voids & stalkers in order to cast corruption. Do you want to take damage and/or lose corruptors in order to get off a few corruptions?


From my experience, and some of the pro replays I've been watching lately (Idra vs Squirtle) I think its pretty common to send your corruptors in a little bit ahead of the rest of your army anyway. Colossus kills your ground army much faster than stalkers/voids can kill Corruptors, so this seems to makes sense most of the time.

Idra seems to favor sending in the corruptors first, casting corruption (he actually uses it!), and then following that up with the rest of his army. Perhaps things change depending on the Colossus/Void/Stalker ratio though, and I'm sure there are situations where you want your entire army engaging at the same time.


I think the OP's idea is to cast corruption, then follow it up by chaining as many FGs as you can before attacking at all with your main army, thus maximizing FG damage and weakening the army as much as possible before attacking.

If you just corruption then immediately attack, you're not really abusing the power of the FG/corruption combo.

edit: just realized YOU are the OP so is that what you intended?
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
March 04 2011 22:03 GMT
#37
I wonder how well this will work out when using the excess gas from a typical roach/hydra/corruptor build to turn it into a roach/infestor/corruptor build.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
March 05 2011 15:59 GMT
#38
On March 05 2011 06:57 BlasiuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 06:22 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
On March 05 2011 06:12 BlasiuS wrote:
The problem is that corruption has a range of 6, which requires corruptors to move within range of voids & stalkers in order to cast corruption. Do you want to take damage and/or lose corruptors in order to get off a few corruptions?


From my experience, and some of the pro replays I've been watching lately (Idra vs Squirtle) I think its pretty common to send your corruptors in a little bit ahead of the rest of your army anyway. Colossus kills your ground army much faster than stalkers/voids can kill Corruptors, so this seems to makes sense most of the time.

Idra seems to favor sending in the corruptors first, casting corruption (he actually uses it!), and then following that up with the rest of his army. Perhaps things change depending on the Colossus/Void/Stalker ratio though, and I'm sure there are situations where you want your entire army engaging at the same time.


I think the OP's idea is to cast corruption, then follow it up by chaining as many FGs as you can before attacking at all with your main army, thus maximizing FG damage and weakening the army as much as possible before attacking.

If you just corruption then immediately attack, you're not really abusing the power of the FG/corruption combo.

edit: just realized YOU are the OP so is that what you intended?


I didn't get into that in my original post, it went beyond the scope of what I wanted to convey really. HOW you engage with infestors/corruptors is situational, so perhaps sometimes you do send them in alone without your main army (in the case of minimal anti-air), while other times you'll need the support of your ground army so your corruptors/infestors won't die too fast. My original post was all about the numbers, not the specifics of battle engagement, I'll leave that for the pros to solve!
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
March 05 2011 16:06 GMT
#39
Always use Corruption, it's actually a really awesome spell. Wish it were not so hard to micro. Combo with FG is a great idea, good post.
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
March 05 2011 16:26 GMT
#40
This might actually be pretty good trick against The Protoss Death Ball.

Especially against the Void Rays.

with Corruption Fungal a Void Ray takes 57 damage in 4 seconds AND is immobilized. 57 damage is 4 Corruptor shots.

It is also the DPS of two Corruptors attacking a Void Ray. This is some very nice synergy.

Thanks for the finding OP.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14036 Posts
March 05 2011 19:22 GMT
#41
people wanted zerg to have a way to deal with death balls

I think blizzard did it.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
ixi.genocide
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States981 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-05 19:40:56
March 05 2011 19:39 GMT
#42
Normal
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