I remember seeing a game where someone tried to do a similar thing with FF after a vortex instead of an archon toilet (they didn't have templar tech). It sort of worked out there too but the FF has to be placed pretty damn fast and precisely around the army or else it becomes a mess and you can lose FFs in the vortex. It's good that you point out MC doing that though, I have done it in a few games to a lesser extent just my being overzealous with FFing since I'm not good at it, but when you trap those units and kill them instantly it feels pretty good even if you don't quite mean it

pandaminion

United States270 Posts

March 05 2011 05:37 GMT

#42

Hey, this is a great observation. It's very MC though, because of how many more forcefields you use. Still, it's pretty neat to see!

dar0za

Canada74 Posts

March 05 2011 07:42 GMT

#43

i also like that MC's force fields (especially against byun) are perfectly placed with no overlap, and they drop down so damn fast. i wonder if he has them slightly out of range before he shift-queues so they drop faster than he's actually clicking? usually some of my sentries are lagging behind and a key part of my wall comes up too late

Alphaes

United States651 Posts

March 05 2011 07:59 GMT

#44

This is a cute Tactic, but does it really does it really belong in the Strategy board?

Aquafresh

United States824 Posts

March 07 2011 00:40 GMT

#45

On March 05 2011 16:59 Alphaes wrote:
This is a cute Tactic, but does it really does it really belong in the Strategy board?

I thought it was generally understood that the "Strategy" forum included discussions on both strategy and tactics. Where else would you post it?

EDIT:

Another cool thing about MC's forcefields, which is not evident in these screenshots, is that they rarely overlap. Lots of really really good protoss (squirtle, huk) overlap forcefields and use a lot more than necessary in the early game. The only P's Ive seen that consistently cast their forcefields end to end are Tester MC, and Nony. I think this is why these guys can seemingly forcefield forever no matter how many sentries they have.

ch33psh33p

7650 Posts

March 07 2011 00:41 GMT

#46

On March 05 2011 16:59 Alphaes wrote:
This is a cute Tactic, but does it really does it really belong in the Strategy board?

Last I checked, this was a place to share strategies and tactics, and there is no Tactic's board as you cutely suggest.

iChau

United States1210 Posts

March 07 2011 00:56 GMT

#47

On March 07 2011 09:41 ch33psh33p wrote:

Show nested quote +

Last I checked, this was a place to share strategies and tactics, and there is no Tactic's board as you cutely suggest.

He was just being annoying..
I'm still trying to get this tactic down. Quite hard xD.

Gofarman

Canada646 Posts

March 07 2011 05:00 GMT

#48

On March 05 2011 03:01 Turgid wrote:

Show nested quote +

He did that in the previous round, didn't he? I think he even mentioned it in an interview.

He does it in Game1 of that round, I wouldn't have noticed but I went and re-watched the VOD's after I saw this thread and it is definitely done on purpose.

Flyingpants

79 Posts

March 07 2011 05:23 GMT

#49

On March 05 2011 16:42 dar0za wrote:
i also like that MC's force fields (especially against byun) are perfectly placed with no overlap, and they drop down so damn fast. i wonder if he has them slightly out of range before he shift-queues so they drop faster than he's actually clicking? usually some of my sentries are lagging behind and a key part of my wall comes up too late

hold f and click it's not hard.

kOre

Canada3642 Posts

March 07 2011 05:26 GMT

#50

Seems MUCH cooler now that it has a name like "Doughnut Hole" lol but yeah i didn't realize that until you pointed it out just now :|

SaJa

France84 Posts

March 07 2011 10:41 GMT

#51

You can also watch it here (storm game 1) and here (colossi game2).

hf

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

March 07 2011 14:07 GMT

#52

Hmm, what MC seems to be doing here is similar to what used to be the FF Vortex. The trick was you would vortex units, forcefield around the vortex, and when the units returned they would be trapped. This required less FFs, but it needed a mothership.
With MC's sentry-heavy play, using pure forcefields to trap the units is viable. Only problem is if you mess up a few of those FFs, some of the units may escape.

DarkPlasmaBall

United States45264 Posts

March 07 2011 14:15 GMT

#53

Nice find, KillerPenguin! Definitely insanely useful to blast bio balls from afar with colossi or storm.

Sometimes I'll do this to trap intimidating amounts of melee units and hit them with stalkers or sentries, which is another (similar) use

Divide and conquer ftw!

SaJa

France84 Posts

March 07 2011 14:23 GMT

#54

Ghost will break that shit once it will be popular, with the stim nerf, protoss will rape Terran in early game since they have no chance to win without the amulet at the late game.

iChau

United States1210 Posts

March 07 2011 14:30 GMT

#55

On March 07 2011 23:23 SaJa wrote:
Ghost will break that shit once it will be popular, with the stim nerf, protoss will rape Terran in early game since they have no chance to win without the amulet at the late game.

Unless you micro. It's easier to get sentries than it is to get ghosts.

b_unnies

3579 Posts

March 07 2011 15:30 GMT

#56

On March 05 2011 03:45 Acridice wrote:
This is honestly nothing that new. The only thing is, that you're used to seeing FF's which divide the armies in half, so that you're not getting hit by all the units at once. However, in this case, MC felt he could wipe out his army outright, so instead of cutting in half he made sure they did not escape and also focused them.

So yeah, I don't think much discussion necessary. Good use of FF's. Period.

This isn't really about reducing dps of Terran (cutting army in half or making sure that bioball cant stutter step) its about maximizing your own dps. More units closer together=more damage from colossus/storm AOE on less shots

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

March 07 2011 15:48 GMT

#57

I don't know how a toss has that many sentries when he has that many colossus out O_O Usually good terrans will keep your sentry count low and it's hard to resupply sentries once you are pumping out gas heavy units. This is the situation all toss want, but it rarely actually happens this way

Cloak

United States816 Posts

March 07 2011 15:55 GMT

#58

Well the biggest problem with earlier and earlier Ghost timings is that it more significantly gimps the Terran army. Terrans needs an initial hump of gas investment to get an upgraded army going, and that sort of disruption delays some other aspect of the army. While it's easy to say oh just go Ghosts, GG. There'll be less Vikings or Medivacs, or the Stim won't be there in time, etc. Not to say Ghosts aren't a worthy addition to an army, but I'd say non-Ghost alternatives would be the first priority to countering it. Perhaps timing pushes to reduce the Sentry numbers and force Forcefields. Perhaps better battle setting choices and army positioning.

Sentries are in a wonderful niche right now. They're great defensive units, save minerals for expansion, then grow better with time to provide invaluable tactical advantage. This means they're going to get nerfed.

Mwentworth56

146 Posts

March 07 2011 15:58 GMT

#59

This dosnt seem overly impressive or creative to me he is just doing what toss do with forcefeilds, man handle your army. I dont really think there is much to discuss. I also dont really think Ghosts are all that great a unit or needed vs toss at all. Im not so sure we will be seeing them more, maybe hellions to pick off sentrys with them always lagging behind armys and being light units. That's what I would like to see atleast.

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