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On May 07 2012 14:11 tuestresfat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 14:00 Fiury_ltu wrote:On May 07 2012 13:50 tuestresfat wrote:On May 07 2012 13:39 Fiury_ltu wrote:Im top 8 platinum player, and I got few top 25 diamond zergs who played this style. Lost all the times against them. As a terran what the hell do you do in this case. Multiple dropes were seen constantly with no good rezults. Whats the composition of units I should approach this zerg mess ? ![[image loading]](http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7516/screenshot2012050705243.jpg) the short answer is to triple your tank count and make sure they have at least +1 weapons. the real answer is i have no idea what your question is. why are you losing? because his army steam rolled yours? because you couldn't secure a 4th? because you were spread too thin against his multi pronged aggression? please be more specific. there were more tanks, and i did secure my 4th bio was 3/3 and tanks +1. I start a push near the creep, and as soon as i see zerg army incoming i run back my bio behind tanks. But i just get overruned still. Are you saying that the key to killing that mess is a good bio spread ? Should I go only marines or marines and marauders ? i can only base it off the screenshot you provided. you have too many marauders, and too few tanks considering his 172 zergling count. marauders are mainly there to soak up the baneling shots, they don't do a lot of damage to ling/bane (marine/tank are your dps units, and you have more marauders than you have marines O_O). Also you can't really push him with your army as you have no real way of dealing with his infestors edit: oh yea, get way more marines, like double that count.
so marine tank medivac , slow bunny hop push across the map with couple cloaked ghosts for incomign infestors will take care of 170 zerglings and 20 banelings ..... Should bio spread be enough when zerg engages, or I also need to kite to have a chance ?
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On May 07 2012 14:51 Fiury_ltu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 14:11 tuestresfat wrote:On May 07 2012 14:00 Fiury_ltu wrote:On May 07 2012 13:50 tuestresfat wrote:On May 07 2012 13:39 Fiury_ltu wrote:Im top 8 platinum player, and I got few top 25 diamond zergs who played this style. Lost all the times against them. As a terran what the hell do you do in this case. Multiple dropes were seen constantly with no good rezults. Whats the composition of units I should approach this zerg mess ? the short answer is to triple your tank count and make sure they have at least +1 weapons. the real answer is i have no idea what your question is. why are you losing? because his army steam rolled yours? because you couldn't secure a 4th? because you were spread too thin against his multi pronged aggression? please be more specific. there were more tanks, and i did secure my 4th bio was 3/3 and tanks +1. I start a push near the creep, and as soon as i see zerg army incoming i run back my bio behind tanks. But i just get overruned still. Are you saying that the key to killing that mess is a good bio spread ? Should I go only marines or marines and marauders ? i can only base it off the screenshot you provided. you have too many marauders, and too few tanks considering his 172 zergling count. marauders are mainly there to soak up the baneling shots, they don't do a lot of damage to ling/bane (marine/tank are your dps units, and you have more marauders than you have marines O_O). Also you can't really push him with your army as you have no real way of dealing with his infestors edit: oh yea, get way more marines, like double that count. so marine tank medivac , slow bunny hop push across the map with couple cloaked ghosts for incomign infestors will take care of 170 zerglings and 20 banelings ..... Should bio spread be enough when zerg engages, or I also need to kite to have a chance ?
stim everything, kite with marines, don't kite with marauders. if he catches you unseiged with that army you're pretty dead. if you don't like playing that game increase your marine count drastically and be weary of fungals (obviously still try not to get caught off guard with unseiged tanks). i'm guessing zerg was on 2/2 melee which gives you the upgrade advantage.
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On May 04 2012 10:11 dmnk wrote:
Hey guys, I was wondering how do I change the main spellcaster in a control group? When you have a bio army with ghosts, it will default to ghost spells. I was wondering if it's possible to permanently keep the main spellcaster as marines/marauders for stim. I know that tab switches it temporarily, but I'm looking to eliminate that extra keystroke during battles. Thanks in advance.
Hit tab.
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Once in masters, how do you make huge leaps of improvement to go high masters? Just mass games on ladder, dedicate time for memorising BOs? I dont have good Protoss master players in my team who i can ask about the matchups..so that kind of sucks.
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On May 07 2012 16:00 tuestresfat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 14:51 Fiury_ltu wrote:On May 07 2012 14:11 tuestresfat wrote:On May 07 2012 14:00 Fiury_ltu wrote:On May 07 2012 13:50 tuestresfat wrote:On May 07 2012 13:39 Fiury_ltu wrote:Im top 8 platinum player, and I got few top 25 diamond zergs who played this style. Lost all the times against them. As a terran what the hell do you do in this case. Multiple dropes were seen constantly with no good rezults. Whats the composition of units I should approach this zerg mess ? the short answer is to triple your tank count and make sure they have at least +1 weapons. the real answer is i have no idea what your question is. why are you losing? because his army steam rolled yours? because you couldn't secure a 4th? because you were spread too thin against his multi pronged aggression? please be more specific. there were more tanks, and i did secure my 4th bio was 3/3 and tanks +1. I start a push near the creep, and as soon as i see zerg army incoming i run back my bio behind tanks. But i just get overruned still. Are you saying that the key to killing that mess is a good bio spread ? Should I go only marines or marines and marauders ? i can only base it off the screenshot you provided. you have too many marauders, and too few tanks considering his 172 zergling count. marauders are mainly there to soak up the baneling shots, they don't do a lot of damage to ling/bane (marine/tank are your dps units, and you have more marauders than you have marines O_O). Also you can't really push him with your army as you have no real way of dealing with his infestors edit: oh yea, get way more marines, like double that count. so marine tank medivac , slow bunny hop push across the map with couple cloaked ghosts for incomign infestors will take care of 170 zerglings and 20 banelings ..... Should bio spread be enough when zerg engages, or I also need to kite to have a chance ? stim everything, kite with marines, don't kite with marauders. if he catches you unseiged with that army you're pretty dead. if you don't like playing that game increase your marine count drastically and be weary of fungals (obviously still try not to get caught off guard with unseiged tanks). i'm guessing zerg was on 2/2 melee which gives you the upgrade advantage.
thanks
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On May 07 2012 18:00 Xenocide_EU wrote:
Once in masters, how do you make huge leaps of improvement to go high masters? Just mass games on ladder, dedicate time for memorising BOs? I dont have good Protoss master players in my team who i can ask about the matchups..so that kind of sucks.
Play and you'll improve over time. Try practicing against others and asking them what aspects of your play were strong/weak. Also try tweaking builds. You can get pretty far just playing by feel and doing your best to macro. However, if you start to standardize things like exactly how many sentries you want before you tech or when you take extra gasses, you'll find you can get very sharp timings.
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On May 07 2012 18:22 phyren wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 18:00 Xenocide_EU wrote:
Once in masters, how do you make huge leaps of improvement to go high masters? Just mass games on ladder, dedicate time for memorising BOs? I dont have good Protoss master players in my team who i can ask about the matchups..so that kind of sucks. Play and you'll improve over time. Try practicing against others and asking them what aspects of your play were strong/weak. Also try tweaking builds. You can get pretty far just playing by feel and doing your best to macro. However, if you start to standardize things like exactly how many sentries you want before you tech or when you take extra gasses, you'll find you can get very sharp timings.
Thanks for answer 
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Hey guys, I'm currently a high diamond zerg looking to get into masters.
I'm having a tough time against protoss. Don't get me wrong, I actually win 50% of my games, but I feel I am only winning because I blind counter my opponent. When I lose to terran or zerg I can say "I lost that game because I didn't build x units at x time" but with protoss it just seems like I lose and I have no idea why, mainly 2 base timinigs.
As it currently stands, i am doing a half assed stephano style, I basically keep scouting for 9 minute miniture timings and pylons and try get my 200/200 army quickly.
However, i have this issue with reading gas and gate numbers against protoss. I listen to commentators say "The protoss is using 4 gateways thats means he's expanding" and sometimes they say "He's all inning because hes got 7 gates", but I still get confused about what the number of gates mean. When should I be worried of 2 base all ins? When should I worry about him expanding.
And just one last thing about gas, If my opponent has 2 gas by 6-7 minutes should I be worried? What about 4 gas, does that mean hes going to do a gas heavy push or a gas heavy expand? When is the optimal time to scout for gas?
Sorry for all the questions guys, its just something I've meant to catch up with for a long time, because I am now consistently beating masters players, but I seem to be blind countering protoss whenever I win, while I win most of my ZvT/ZvZs and when I lose I know I why I lost =(
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¿Why not use reapers instead of hellions to deny creep spread? You can get stim faster this way.
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On May 08 2012 02:25 Cejotas wrote:
¿Why not use reapers instead of hellions to deny creep spread? You can get stim faster this way.
Some zerg go early ling speed against terran, and even so most zerg get ling speed at around that time you want to be denying creep. A reaper would just get owned imo.
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I am a high masters Zerg and I still dont know what gas things indicate which 2 base timings from protoss or if they are taking a third? Mainly looking at the gases in their natural
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What is a good benchmark number of probes after 10 minutes? Is ~40 too low?
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On May 08 2012 03:28 blug wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 02:25 Cejotas wrote:
¿Why not use reapers instead of hellions to deny creep spread? You can get stim faster this way. Some zerg go early ling speed against terran, and even so most zerg get ling speed at around that time you want to be denying creep. A reaper would just get owned imo.
Reapers build slowly and one at a time as well as require gas. Hellions build two at a time off a reactor, and the only gas investment is in the factory and add on which you will need anyway. Also, hellions do splash damage that works quite well against masses of melee units and drones. That said, reapers can be strong.
On May 08 2012 06:05 TheExodus wrote:
What is a good benchmark number of probes after 10 minutes? Is ~40 too low?
short answer: yes, it is too low.
long answer: it kinda depends on your build, if you are going 3 base or 2 base all in or w/e.
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I'm really bad at scouting. As a Terran, how should I go about finding out what my opponent is up to early game? And what times should I re-scout them?
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As a Platinum Zerg player, how do i know when to go for mutas vs Terran, sometimes when i do i just have too little aoe to deal with marines or they just spam up towers with marines in base. is it just safer to go for infestors and turtle to ultra/broods?
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^ Unless they go mech (and even then, I always go mutas unless I see they don't make any tanks and are instead going fast thors, but mass roach will be 'good enough' no matter what version of mech, and making a spire and making 10 mutas before you realize it's mech won't put you behind against any version of mech), going muta is always fine. I always go muta against Terran.
Banelings are more then enough AoE. 5-10 banelings should really be enough, 20 if it's like near-max (you want to be mostly ling).
In battles, just move command your ling/bane until your lings get behind the marines, then hit a-move. Ideally, you will set up flanks and multiple groups, come from different angles so that the lings approach from the opposite of where banes approach, and then split the banes using move command towards where T splits marines. But move commanding lings slightly past the marines, then boxing over the banes and moving them towards his marines and making sure they don't blow up on tanks/thors/marauders, is good enough 99% of the time.
Turtling and infestors has it's own vulnerabilities, as well as strengths. I'd say it's more about the map, then 'when' to go infestors. But ling/bane/muta is a solid playstyle that you can do anywhere, and banes will be more than enough aoe.
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On May 08 2012 00:54 blug wrote:
Hey guys, I'm currently a high diamond zerg looking to get into masters.
I'm having a tough time against protoss. Don't get me wrong, I actually win 50% of my games, but I feel I am only winning because I blind counter my opponent. When I lose to terran or zerg I can say "I lost that game because I didn't build x units at x time" but with protoss it just seems like I lose and I have no idea why, mainly 2 base timinigs.
As it currently stands, i am doing a half assed stephano style, I basically keep scouting for 9 minute miniture timings and pylons and try get my 200/200 army quickly.
However, i have this issue with reading gas and gate numbers against protoss. I listen to commentators say "The protoss is using 4 gateways thats means he's expanding" and sometimes they say "He's all inning because hes got 7 gates", but I still get confused about what the number of gates mean. When should I be worried of 2 base all ins? When should I worry about him expanding.
And just one last thing about gas, If my opponent has 2 gas by 6-7 minutes should I be worried? What about 4 gas, does that mean hes going to do a gas heavy push or a gas heavy expand? When is the optimal time to scout for gas?
Sorry for all the questions guys, its just something I've meant to catch up with for a long time, because I am now consistently beating masters players, but I seem to be blind countering protoss whenever I win, while I win most of my ZvT/ZvZs and when I lose I know I why I lost =(
Personally I just hit the 3base 60drone benchmark by 8mins. Park a ling at his 3rd, and blindly mass roaches. Do not go too far over 60drones until you see him start a 3rd nexus. Don't "worry" about him expanding, you need to explicitly see him start it. It can be as early as 8:30 (off 4gate robo), or as late as 11/12mins (off stargate robo 6gates). Unless you see a super early 3rd just blindly mass units. Even if he has plans to take a late 3rd you know he's going to be aggressive. When you see his 3rd go down you can drone up to ~80 and take your 4th safely, maintaining your economic advantage. Or you can try killing him, whatever floats your boat.
Gateway pressure
No gasses at his natural by 6:30 is a sure sign of gateway pressure. Overall gas tells you little as to what kind of gateway pressure it will be, but it's no big deal.
Stargate play
3rd gas will be taken very early, likely before the 6min mark (4th gas either taken at the same time or shortly after, worth noting as it can be difficult to spot both gasses on some maps). Single stargate play should not set you back further than he is set back by teching to it, so as long as you get a timely evo (~7mins). If he is going double stargate, and you do not scout it in time it's basically gg.
late 2base all-ins:
The stephano style does a good job blind countering a number of things. Particularly late 2base all-ins (10:30 or later because your economy would have kicked in and you have tons of production capability). The only ones that will give you trouble are 6gate +2 blink stalkers, or 7gate immortal pushes (sadly almost everyone does this). In either case it just boils down to how you engage him. It's so disgusting watching zergs engage the deathball at i.e. their 3rd on antiga after the rocks are down. If you let him get into a position like that with forcefields/immortals just ditch your 3rd and counterattack. If you try engaging that you'll be giving him all your units. It's not very important you identify what kind of late 2base all-in he opts to do as he will push out in a time when you are massing units (and you're stuck on roach-ling anyway) so you can just deviate your roach:ling ratio accordingly.
early 2base all-ins:
These can be really hard to hold, as they can hit around the 8:30min mark when you pretty much have 0 units. I'm not really sure what the best response is or how to even scout it in time without explicitly seeing the gateway count. Natural gas will be very late or non-existent, but too late to warn you of the incoming all-in. Most common are the +1 7gate zealot-stalker or the +1 8gate heavy zealot all-ins. The key difference is the timing. With immortal all-ins they usually warp in a few sentries, sit on their energy, go up to 45-50 probes, warp in more units, and then attack. An 8gate cuts around 35probes and attacks with the very first warp-in. This is critical as this is around the time you have just completed your droning phase and have bearly even begun to make units. I think you have to cut drones before the 60min mark to hold something like this, but I'm not terribly sure. Hopefully someone has more insight on this.
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On May 08 2012 08:11 HerbMac wrote:
I'm really bad at scouting. As a Terran, how should I go about finding out what my opponent is up to early game? And what times should I re-scout them?
Think of early game strategy as a checklist. If I scout that he has a natural, he couldn't have many units this early.
As for timings, watch your replays and see what he had/did not have at particular points in the game that you could scout. You can scout for proxies, chronoboost energy, natural timing, worker count, buildings, etc. You can also use scans but if you have eliminated possible options it is better to utilise mules.
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On May 08 2012 06:42 phyren wrote:
short answer: yes, it is too low.
long answer: it kinda depends on your build, if you are going 3 base or 2 base all in or w/e.
In the games I've been looking at there's been a lot of PvZ, where I usually do a 3-gate expand. I suppose the way to increase probe count is to queue new probes just before the current one is finished instead of instaswitching to nexus and building when the last one is done, and also chronoing better?
What would be a decent number of probes at 10 minutes with a 3-gate expand? I usually end up with about the same expand timings when I go 3-gate+robo in the other matchups.
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EPT
