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On July 12 2011 14:35 Oscatron wrote:
masters protoss here needs help.
whats the safest opening in pvt or most standard nowadays?
cant seem to win a single pvt to save my life.
basically my pvt are either:
longer macro games, 3 bases or more, i win easily
shorter/cheesier games, i get demolished.
when i lose its usually just a cmplete build order loss. like if i go 1gate fe and they do some type of 3 rax rush, maybe even with scv. or sometimes i see they block the ramp ill go for vr bust, but they got cloaked banshees. or if i go ok w.e ill play super safe, go 3 gate robo then expand or w.e , i find out he expands and he is way ahead economically.
pvt beginning is just retarded. you will most likely always be behind in some way simply based off build orders
3 gate expand against bio, 1 gate expand against FE or tech. Use your probe to get a good sense of what terran is doing (2nd marine = FE or tech, no 2nd marine = tech lab/reactor = bio), then confirm with zealot+stalker poke (send in probe first if you suspect bio so you don't get owned by marauder).
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On July 12 2011 14:30 Original exxo wrote:
What do I do if im being harassed at each base by 30+ mutas >.<
enter gg enter f10 n
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On July 12 2011 14:44 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 14:30 Original exxo wrote:
What do I do if im being harassed at each base by 30+ mutas >.< enter gg enter f10 n
Attack. If he has 60 supply tied up in mutas, he'll have to bring them back to stop your army from killing his whole base and winning a base race for the simple reason that mutas don't kill buildings very quickly.
If your attack fails without decimating his mutas or outright winning the game, though, then I would follow the advice I quoted.
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On July 12 2011 10:51 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 10:46 HeisHere wrote:
I've seen Huk, and some other pro players scout with 2 probes (1 at 9, and another one at around 13) but I don't understand when it is necessary to do so, or when it is profitable to do that. If your initial probe dies, you have another one to make proxy pylons, scout, etc. Say you want to 4 gate a FE terran. If you scout him but your probe dies, this makes the terran THINK he's safe, making your 4 gate more unexpected. Also if he goes all in it is very helpful to have a second probe out on the map to make a proxy pylon to counter with. Edit: notice when Huk or whoever is playing: they never have both their probes NEAR each other, one will always just be out exploring the map, etc. There will never be 2 probes in the other person's base.
Having an extra hidden scouting probe is one eason, but the main reason is that, in large 4 player maps (tal darim), if your 9 scout doesn't find your opponent at the 2 first locations you scout, you'll be playing blind for a long time. 9 scout + 13 scouts ensures that you scout him early (in time to react to 6 pool, hatch first etc ...)
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On July 12 2011 14:30 Original exxo wrote:
What do I do if im being harassed at each base by 30+ mutas >.<
Build turrets and thors and repair both. Pushing could force the mutas into a confrontation with your army but honestly if he has 60 supply worth of mutas, 90 supply worth of drones I'm willing to bet he'd have 50 supply of zergling/baneling. The real winner is to build thors and start denying areas when he builds mutas until you have enough to doom push him or turret the entire map.
Heavy on the marines and thors, average on tanks.
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On July 12 2011 14:52 Matrijs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 14:44 Anihc wrote:On July 12 2011 14:30 Original exxo wrote:
What do I do if im being harassed at each base by 30+ mutas >.< enter gg enter f10 n Attack. If he has 60 supply tied up in mutas, he'll have to bring them back to stop your army from killing his whole base and winning a base race for the simple reason that mutas don't kill buildings very quickly. If your attack fails without decimating his mutas or outright winning the game, though, then I would follow the advice I quoted.
30 mutas can kill a base pretty fast, and still have time to make it back to defend against your attack.
@OP, I didn't answer your question because you didn't specify what race you were. Also 30+ mutas seemed like an exaggeration, if you are actually being harassed by 30 mutas most likely you've lost the game.
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On July 12 2011 14:30 Original exxo wrote:
What do I do if im being harassed at each base by 30+ mutas >.<
If there are seriously 30 mutas at every one of your bases you should type gg and leave right away.
If you want to find salvation:
Any race - If you think you have the units to kill his mutas in a straight up fight, you can all in him but that's really risky.
Toss - get storm, blink stalkers will get raped
Terran - there's nothing 3/3 marines can't solve
Zerg - infestors
^note that that's really shitty advice because your question was so vague I can't comment further.
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Question: Standard zvz game, what is the timing for infestors? As in, what time usually does your opponent's first infestor pops?
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On July 12 2011 17:37 closey wrote:
Question: Standard zvz game, what is the timing for infestors? As in, what time usually does your opponent's first infestor pops?
11 ingame startcraft minutes is quite normal if the game has been passive and both players have been unharmed economically. Yes it can be quicker, but most players prefer to get a good drone, roach and upgrade count before getting infestors which usually makes the infestors pop around then or one starcraft minute later.
although, if its a rush towards infestors the lair can be done around 6-7 ingame starcraft minutes and there for the infestors can be out about 7:30-8:30 with fungals ready. But thats a rush and is quite uncommon.
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In tvp, I'm looking for the relative timing where I can scout and if I don't see a nexus its going to be 1 base colluses all in- void ray all in/ any other all in (excluding the 4 gate).
What are definite signs of a 4 gate. I thought it had 1 gas and 50+ chronoboost but I have seen multiple builds where this can result in something else. Is it the cybercore timing?
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On July 12 2011 12:49 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 12:22 Matrijs wrote:In the later stages of templar-based PvT, when Terran has bio + ghost (few vikings b/c no colossus) and Protoss has templar + chargelot + archon, why don't Protoss players build a warp prism to preserve at least 4 un-EMP'd templar in the event of gosu pre-engagement EMPs by the Terran? + Show Spoiler +Puma v. MC NASL finals is a great example of this. If MC was ever able to land storms on Puma's army, he won. In the game on Metalopolis, he had a ~40 supply lead, plenty of templar, and storm finished and ready to rock. But Puma's EMPs prevented MC from getting off even a single storm, and Puma won shortly thereafter. It seems to me that MC could easily have built a single warp prism (2 supply, 200 mins) out of his existing robo which wasn't being otherwise used to protect his templar from EMP. There must be a reason, I just can't figure it out. In theorycraft this is an extremely good idea, and is done in BW a lot (although for mostly different reasons - prevent sniping by vultures, and to get into storming range since HTs are slow and tank range is big). I guess it just requires a lot of extra micro, plus warp prisms are fragile. But I really want to start trying it, if I can remember to do it in a game. I'll let you know how it goes!
I believe a major reason is that TvP SC2 Vikings are always available due to the reactor starport. Because of Vikings' long range, shuttling your templars in a fragile prism seems too precarious.
If we hark back to TvP in BW, Terran will mostly have tank, vultures, and science vessel, i.e. no long-range air-to-air at all. Thus using shuttle to transport templars was much safer.
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Is there a thread, list or something with many important timings for all races like for an example 4 gate push timing, warpgate finishing, 6 gate, 2 rax etc etc.
Greatly appreciated.
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On July 13 2011 01:11 Quochobao wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 12:49 Anihc wrote:On July 12 2011 12:22 Matrijs wrote:In the later stages of templar-based PvT, when Terran has bio + ghost (few vikings b/c no colossus) and Protoss has templar + chargelot + archon, why don't Protoss players build a warp prism to preserve at least 4 un-EMP'd templar in the event of gosu pre-engagement EMPs by the Terran? + Show Spoiler +Puma v. MC NASL finals is a great example of this. If MC was ever able to land storms on Puma's army, he won. In the game on Metalopolis, he had a ~40 supply lead, plenty of templar, and storm finished and ready to rock. But Puma's EMPs prevented MC from getting off even a single storm, and Puma won shortly thereafter. It seems to me that MC could easily have built a single warp prism (2 supply, 200 mins) out of his existing robo which wasn't being otherwise used to protect his templar from EMP. There must be a reason, I just can't figure it out. In theorycraft this is an extremely good idea, and is done in BW a lot (although for mostly different reasons - prevent sniping by vultures, and to get into storming range since HTs are slow and tank range is big). I guess it just requires a lot of extra micro, plus warp prisms are fragile. But I really want to start trying it, if I can remember to do it in a game. I'll let you know how it goes! I believe a major reason is that TvP SC2 Vikings are always available due to the reactor starport. Because of Vikings' long range, shuttling your templars in a fragile prism seems too precarious. If we hark back to TvP in BW, Terran will mostly have tank, vultures, and science vessel, i.e. no long-range air-to-air at all. Thus using shuttle to transport templars was much safer.
I disagree. HT usage in PvT is most prevalent with no-colossus mass gateway style army. Terran will not have vikings.
Meanwhile in BW terran had 9 range goliaths.
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On July 13 2011 00:48 MaximusMInd wrote:
In tvp, I'm looking for the relative timing where I can scout and if I don't see a nexus its going to be 1 base colluses all in- void ray all in/ any other all in (excluding the 4 gate).
What are definite signs of a 4 gate. I thought it had 1 gas and 50+ chronoboost but I have seen multiple builds where this can result in something else. Is it the cybercore timing?
You need to take into account what else the protoss has, not just if he has a nexus or not at a certain time. For example if you see 2 gates and a robo and no expo at 5:00 (I'm making these times up, I actually don't know exact game times) there's no need to worry, but if you see 1 gate and nothing else and no expo at 5:00, I would worry. Stuff like unit count and what kind of units the protoss has plays into this as well. There really is no simple answer, this is essentially what "game sense" is and only comes with experience.
Likewise, there's no definite signs of a 4 gate except for 4 gates. In a PvT 4 gate, the strongest timing from the P may not necessarily be the traditional 7 gateway unit timing that comes immediately with the first round of warp ins like in PvP. Therefore a Protoss player can get 2 gas, not save all chronos for warp gate tech, and still come out with a really strong 4 gate. You either have to scout 4 gates or scout the lack of infrastructure/expansion and know that some sort of all-in is coming. 1 gas could mean 4 gate, 2 gas could mean dt/void ray/delayed 4 gate, etc.
Also no one does 1 base colossus all in except for as a response to 3 rax.
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after 3gate expo, pvz, as zerg, what should the 3rd and 4th gases timings should tell me?
if he doesnt take them at all i should expect something like 6 gate all-in, right?
what if he takes both of them right when the expo finishes? should I expect some fast colossus/dt/stargate ?
what's the standard time to take them if you just want to take your 3rd safely w/o pressuring the zerg?
tl;dr: what should i know about the 3rd and the 4th gas in a pvz as Z?
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On July 13 2011 00:48 MaximusMInd wrote:
In tvp, I'm looking for the relative timing where I can scout and if I don't see a nexus its going to be 1 base colluses all in- void ray all in/ any other all in (excluding the 4 gate).
What are definite signs of a 4 gate. I thought it had 1 gas and 50+ chronoboost but I have seen multiple builds where this can result in something else. Is it the cybercore timing?
Amazing, TvP Scouting Info in this guide
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232753
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can someone point me to a good resource covering how to micro multi-pronged marine/medivac drops or just terran drops in general?
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where can i found how do bane drop while over moves?
i cant find in any thread 
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EPT
