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On June 18 2011 00:30 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 00:04 TheOracle wrote:
What's the ideal protoss unit comp against a zerg going pure roach? Should I be still aiming for colossus or going 2 robo immortal (off 2 base) instead? Or neither of the above? If you have decent force field micro, the best composition to deal with pure roach is stalker/sentry/immortal, adding blink eventually, and then finally adding HTs late game. Going for colossus is not "wrong" though and is definitely really strong once you get to 4+ colossus. Just be careful if you're moving around in an open area on the map, it's easy to lose to a nice roach flank.
Stalker/sentry/immortal is good in short term, in longer games, waves of reinforcements are hard to deal with, especialy when your sentrys are getting sniped and are lacking energy. If you KNOW he's going to stick on roaches the ultimate combo against it is immortal/voidray (and stalkers, just because you build gateways, but stalkers are not cost efficient against roaches without good forcefields*). On maps like Taldarim if you are able to scout roach warren early and mass imortals/VR while denying scouting with stalkers the zerg is going to hate you, because there is nothing he can do when you push out with that unit composition.
*Stalkers are not cost efficient even against drones ^^ 4 drones kill stalker
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On June 18 2011 00:49 Dariusz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 00:30 Anihc wrote:On June 18 2011 00:04 TheOracle wrote:
What's the ideal protoss unit comp against a zerg going pure roach? Should I be still aiming for colossus or going 2 robo immortal (off 2 base) instead? Or neither of the above? If you have decent force field micro, the best composition to deal with pure roach is stalker/sentry/immortal, adding blink eventually, and then finally adding HTs late game. Going for colossus is not "wrong" though and is definitely really strong once you get to 4+ colossus. Just be careful if you're moving around in an open area on the map, it's easy to lose to a nice roach flank. Stalker/sentry/immortal is good in short term, in longer games, waves of reinforcements are hard to deal with, especialy when your sentrys are getting sniped and are lacking energy. If you KNOW he's going to stick on roaches the ultimate combo against it is immortal/voidray (and stalkers, just because you build gateways, but stalkers are not cost efficient against roaches without good forcefields*). On maps like Taldarim if you are able to scout roach warren early and mass imortals/VR while denying scouting with stalkers the zerg is going to hate you, because there is nothing he can do when you push out with that unit composition. *Stalkers are not cost efficient even against drones ^^ 4 drones kill stalker
What kind of zerg is just going to sit there thinking, hmm I tried to scout the Protoss once but he killed my overlord. I guess I'll just have to play completely in the dark then! Oooh I know I will mass roaches because mondragon is my hero.
No, he will scout you, make hydras, and you will lose.
Also if you have good micro you shouldn't be losing all your sentries. The gateway/immortal ball is very strong in late game PvZ as well.
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On June 18 2011 00:04 TheOracle wrote:
What's the ideal protoss unit comp against a zerg going pure roach? Should I be still aiming for colossus or going 2 robo immortal (off 2 base) instead? Or neither of the above?
Against pure roach, blink stalker / archon is pretty effective. You are fairly mobile and the units are beefy enough that you can safely split units off to deal with harass if he sends small forces to your expansions. The Archons have similar damage output to immortals while being much easier to mass
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Is there a good way to calculate lost minerals from causing workers to evacuate the line for some reason?
(lost mining time)
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
The quickest approximation is 1 mineral per second per worker-- it's not fully accurate but in a game where you're pulling workers, you probably don't have time to do a lot of calculating.
So if you pull 3 workers to kill a spinecrawler rush crawler, that takes 50 seconds of 3 workers mining, or about 150 minerals, compared to his probably a minute of walking his drone to your base, 25 minerals from cancelling the crawler, 50 minerals of his drone not mining while it's becoming a crawler, then another 60 seconds walking back: He's spending about 150 minerals' worth of mining time on the spinecrawler cancel harass, unless he's either A) planning on scouting with that drone anyways or B) already saturated
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On June 17 2011 18:38 zOula... wrote:
When loading a group of marines into a medivac, what is the most effective way to load them while running away? (for instance after you've dropped in someones base and you see their army returning and you want to load up and retreat) Right now I am just selecting all my marines and then right clicking a medivac, then shift right clicking the next medivac and so on. Is this the best way to do it?
can anyone confirm or deny my medivac loading technique?! Any help would be appreciated
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I need some advice on fast expanding vs zerg. I read the guides on doing it and they recommened going 15 nexus if the zerg 14 hatches. I find though that I am having a real problem building the wall, how do I just stop him from running into my main when it isn't a complete walloff like in Sakuras? Are there any links anyone can give me with examples how to set up a wall on more open locations?
Also I find if I fast expand the zerg just takes a 3rd and starts hyper droning. By the time I can scout it I'm normally dead since I've been throughouly out harvested. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
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On June 18 2011 02:36 Greenduck wrote:
I need some advice on fast expanding vs zerg. I read the guides on doing it and they recommened going 15 nexus if the zerg 14 hatches. I find though that I am having a real problem building the wall, how do I just stop him from running into my main when it isn't a complete walloff like in Sakuras? Are there any links anyone can give me with examples how to set up a wall on more open locations?
Also I find if I fast expand the zerg just takes a 3rd and starts hyper droning. By the time I can scout it I'm normally dead since I've been throughouly out harvested. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Zerg will always FE, the 15 nexus idea isn't one I'd suggest.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3-Gate_Sentry_Expand_(vs._Zerg)
The 3-gate expand is good because it allows you to create a force in case of harassment or small pressure the Zerg wants to put on you while also allowing yourself to expand.
Generally, you have to establish your second while also putting pressure on the Zerg with additional stalkers to accompany your zealots and sentries. If you can force the Zerg to waste larvae on forces, you delay his droning while also making probes yourself.
A common follow-up for MC is making a stargate and harassing with that.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On June 18 2011 02:29 zOula... wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 18:38 zOula... wrote:
When loading a group of marines into a medivac, what is the most effective way to load them while running away? (for instance after you've dropped in someones base and you see their army returning and you want to load up and retreat) Right now I am just selecting all my marines and then right clicking a medivac, then shift right clicking the next medivac and so on. Is this the best way to do it? can anyone confirm or deny my medivac loading technique?! Any help would be appreciated
I don't know if my way is faster, but I just select all my dudes and spam click the medivacs. If you only have 2 or 3 this should be quick enough. Alternatively, you could use some spare control groups to make groups of 8 marines to quickly jump them in. Shift-clicking might be slower since marines entering the 3rd medivac will have to go to the rally points and the 1st and 2nd medivac.
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On June 18 2011 02:44 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 02:29 zOula... wrote:On June 17 2011 18:38 zOula... wrote:
When loading a group of marines into a medivac, what is the most effective way to load them while running away? (for instance after you've dropped in someones base and you see their army returning and you want to load up and retreat) Right now I am just selecting all my marines and then right clicking a medivac, then shift right clicking the next medivac and so on. Is this the best way to do it? can anyone confirm or deny my medivac loading technique?! Any help would be appreciated I don't know if my way is faster, but I just select all my dudes and spam click the medivacs. If you only have 2 or 3 this should be quick enough. Alternatively, you could use some spare control groups to make groups of 8 marines to quickly jump them in. Shift-clicking might be slower since marines entering the 3rd medivac will have to go to the rally points and the 1st and 2nd medivac.
When you shift-click medivacs, all your units will go to the first medivac. However, once that medivac is full, all your remaining units will immediately go to the second medivac (ignoring the first), and so forth.
Contrast this with just spam clicking medivacs. You are repeatedly overwriting your units current action with "load into the clicked medivac". If you are careless spam clicking between medivacs that are separated, your units will bounce between them. Also, you need to continue spam clicking to ensure that your units are actively loading into medivacs instead of following around full ones.
What I do when I want to retreat with drop ships is:
1) Select my units,
2) Shift-right click each of my dropships to instruct my units to load into each in turn
3) Ctrl-click my overlords and begin to steer them around so they can make their escape
The last step gives you a little more control since you can set up your dropships to start making a run for it while the units catch up (e.g., if you are loading up stimmed marines or zerglings) or steer them towards stuck units to ensure they get picked up.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On June 18 2011 02:58 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 02:44 Blazinghand wrote:On June 18 2011 02:29 zOula... wrote:On June 17 2011 18:38 zOula... wrote:
When loading a group of marines into a medivac, what is the most effective way to load them while running away? (for instance after you've dropped in someones base and you see their army returning and you want to load up and retreat) Right now I am just selecting all my marines and then right clicking a medivac, then shift right clicking the next medivac and so on. Is this the best way to do it? can anyone confirm or deny my medivac loading technique?! Any help would be appreciated I don't know if my way is faster, but I just select all my dudes and spam click the medivacs. If you only have 2 or 3 this should be quick enough. Alternatively, you could use some spare control groups to make groups of 8 marines to quickly jump them in. Shift-clicking might be slower since marines entering the 3rd medivac will have to go to the rally points and the 1st and 2nd medivac. When you shift-click medivacs, all your units will go to the first medivac. However, once that medivac is full, all your remaining units will immediately go to the second medivac (ignoring the first), and so forth. Contrast this with just spam clicking medivacs. You are repeatedly overwriting your units current action with "load into the clicked medivac". If you are careless spam clicking between medivacs that are separated, your units will bounce between them. Also, you need to continue spam clicking to ensure that your units are actively loading into medivacs instead of following around full ones. What I do when I want to retreat with drop ships is: 1) Select my units, 2) Shift-right click each of my dropships to instruct my units to load into each in turn 3) Ctrl-click my overlords and begin to steer them around so they can make their escape The last step gives you a little more control since you can set up your dropships to start making a run for it while the units catch up (e.g., if you are loading up stimmed marines or zerglings) or steer them towards stuck units to ensure they get picked up.
Hmm it would seem that shift-clicking is superior, then, for 2+ dropships. Another thing worth noting is that for warp prisms and overlords you can leave them near the cliff rather than having them trail your drop into the base-- they don't heal units like medivacs do. Maybe having an overlord poop creep to give your units more mobility would help also. This lets you use the superior speed of your zealots, zerglings, w/e to get to the edge of the cliff, and then they can hop into the transport there. While they're on the way to the cliff edge you can queue up the load commands and select your ovies in anticipation of escaping.
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How do you perform multiple fungals at a time? What I do is shift + F then left-click around, but what that causes is my infestors to be queued too close to the enemy and they won't fungal until they reach that spot (which then they will fungal).
How do I get it so that they just fungal and not focus on getting in a specific position?
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Q: I was wondering what build i should do with toss at early games? always getting pwnd by 7/10 pool (zerg) early game!
pls help! 
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On June 18 2011 02:43 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 02:36 Greenduck wrote:
I need some advice on fast expanding vs zerg. I read the guides on doing it and they recommened going 15 nexus if the zerg 14 hatches. I find though that I am having a real problem building the wall, how do I just stop him from running into my main when it isn't a complete walloff like in Sakuras? Are there any links anyone can give me with examples how to set up a wall on more open locations?
Also I find if I fast expand the zerg just takes a 3rd and starts hyper droning. By the time I can scout it I'm normally dead since I've been throughouly out harvested. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you. Zerg will always FE, the 15 nexus idea isn't one I'd suggest. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3-Gate_Sentry_Expand_(vs._Zerg)The 3-gate expand is good because it allows you to create a force in case of harassment or small pressure the Zerg wants to put on you while also allowing yourself to expand. Generally, you have to establish your second while also putting pressure on the Zerg with additional stalkers to accompany your zealots and sentries. If you can force the Zerg to waste larvae on forces, you delay his droning while also making probes yourself. A common follow-up for MC is making a stargate and harassing with that.
3 gate expand is the standard PvZ build and useful to know, but I think it's a horrible build. It's not that safe, it doesn't put you ahead in econ, and you can't pressure the zerg at all. If you try to move out with you sentry heavy army, either the zerg is just going to be unphased, take his 3rd and drone up anyway, or the zerg will make 30 speedlings and you will lose all your sentries.
I'd recommend 15 nex or 1 gate FE (like MC does - I don't think MC actually uses 3 gate expand anymore). To stop speedling run bys just scout and then block off the bottom of your ramp with a gateway when you see it coming. Then there are many many ways to put pressure on the zerg's 3rd, you can either go stargate, 6 gate +1 attack, or just do standard gateway+robo. It's ok for the zerg to be slightly ahead in econ, but if he tries to fully saturate all 3 bases you should just be able to go and kill him. Meanwhile you expand behind your attack. If you feel like you can't put pressure on the zerg's 3rd, you're probably doing something else wrong (i.e. your macro sucks or you don't know how to use FF), and we'll need a replay.
Also the correct reaction to a hatch first is to cannon rush. Note I said reaction, you don't need to plan this from the beginning. This means that you can scout it, drop your forget at 15-16 supply, and still successfully cannon rush. A zerg should not be able to hatch first in PvZ, or he's taking a big gamble in doing so.
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On June 18 2011 03:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
How do you perform multiple fungals at a time? What I do is shift + F then left-click around, but what that causes is my infestors to be queued too close to the enemy and they won't fungal until they reach that spot (which then they will fungal).
How do I get it so that they just fungal and not focus on getting in a specific position?
The only other way than queueing up fungals is to issue one fungal at a time. To do this efficiently, you can hold down F while you have your infestors selected (which has the effect of spam clicking F modulo the key repeat delay) and then click down fungals as necessary.
The problem with this is that in effect you're just alternating the key combination "F click" very fast, so if you click faster than the keyboard repeats F, then you'll end up selecting the unit under the cursor instead of casting fungal. This is less of a problem with fungal than it is with other, more spammable spells like force field and snipe.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On June 18 2011 03:36 Degiz wrote:Q: I was wondering what build i should do with toss at early games? always getting pwnd by 7/10 pool (zerg) early game! pls help!
If a fast pool build is giving you difficulty, your problem might not be build order (unless you're going 15 nex) but rather building placement. Your first buildings should be placed to choke your ramp so you can defend with 1 zealot. Can you take a screenshot of how you usually place your pylon and your first two basic structure?
Here's a thread on how to wall as protoss:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=194363
EDIT: and here's how specifically to wall on backwater gulch, which is difficult to wall on:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204316
If the attack is getting into your base before your choke/wall is up, it could be a quick enough pool that you need to defend with probes; this is okay because zerg took economic damage from making those lings. Try to get out your zealot as quicky as possible, and pull some probes to attack his zerglings. If he's going for your gateway, don't pull probes to attack unless the gateway will lose lots of hull damage or die before the first zeal is out.
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It's been ages since I've encountered it so I don't remember the timings at all:
If I FFE on say Taldarim, and the Zerg early (6-10) pools, how do you defend? Can't wall in time and the mineral line is miles away from your pylon/forge.
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doing like this:
9 pylon
chronoboost 2 probes
12 stargate (1 zealot for block)
2 probes
100% stargate -> core
14 gas
(blocking the ramp ofc)
sry couldnt printscreen, its just black.
On June 18 2011 03:55 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 03:36 Degiz wrote:Q: I was wondering what build i should do with toss at early games? always getting pwnd by 7/10 pool (zerg) early game! pls help! If a fast pool build is giving you difficulty, your problem might not be build order (unless you're going 15 nex) but rather building placement. Your first buildings should be placed to choke your ramp so you can defend with 1 zealot. Can you take a screenshot of how you usually place your pylon and your first two basic structure? Here's a thread on how to wall as protoss: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=194363EDIT: and here's how specifically to wall on backwater gulch, which is difficult to wall on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204316If the attack is getting into your base before your choke/wall is up, it could be a quick enough pool that you need to defend with probes; this is okay because zerg took economic damage from making those lings. Try to get out your zealot as quicky as possible, and pull some probes to attack his zerglings. If he's going for your gateway, don't pull probes to attack unless the gateway will lose lots of hull damage or die before the first zeal is out.
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Hey all, I play sc2 on a computer that is awful. It is actually below the minimum requirements(I got screwed on upgrade timing, no new computer until decemberish), but I can play just normal except in battles. If there is more than about 30 food on either side my FPS drops to like 2. As a protoss player who is starting to play diamond level, what should I do to minimize the effects of this. I have been doing a lot of stalker colossus balls because they are pretty strong even on 1a.
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EPT
